Kirk Coaches - Diagram 105/125 Twin Set

[Rob Pulham]

Having taken the plunge in stripping the cab of the A3 prior to making the roof removable did I continue with the F8?

 

Nah! I am sure that it will come as no surprise that it didn't take much encouragement from Chris for me to start on one of the coach kits that she bought me for my birthday.

 

This is some of what's in the box - for this particular coach I am still waiting for the underframe and bogie etches.

 

 

 

 

Having had a read of the quite comprehensive instructions available for download from the kemilway site it reckons about a hundred and fifty hours to build a coach depending on experience. Having had some of these kits in 4mm some years ago I had an idea what to expect and this is where I got to after 4 hours yesterday.

 

 

The floor pan folded up and the inner ends curved with the formers soldered in.

 

 

Both sides have their separate bottom panels soldered in. 

 

Even though I had filed of the etching cusps I struggled with the first side to get the panels in flat etc. with a couple needing to be dropped out and repositioned. On the second side I made doubly sure that I had removed the cusps and I put a slight chamfer on the edges of each panel. This meant that they snapped into place with ease and I soldered up the second side in half the time it took for the first - a lesson learned for the next one.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2018 by Rob Pulham

[Rob Pulham]

I moved on a little with this last night. 

 

The next step or rather the previous step (it should have been done before fitting the panels to the sides) was to fit the bulkheads/toilet partitions. This is where reading all the instructions first pays off. The instructions for the body would have you fit the bulkheads/toilet partitions while building the body but then when you get to the interior the instructions have you fitting doors and the very nice cast door knobs. This would have been a much bigger and messier job to have done when the coach body was assembled so I chose to add the doors and door knobs in the flat.

 

The detail on the inside of the toilet compartment its quite something - the only thing missing is that there isn't quite enough door knobs provided to add them on the inside of the toilet door.

 

 

Above is the inside of the toilet compartment at one end - I didn't get the last partition in last night.

 

 

The inside of the vestibule showing the door knobs on both sides of the door.

 

 

 

One side of the door - the additional etch.

 

 

And the other side which is etched as part of the bulkhead.

 

 

Lastly a close up of the other toilet partition show the door knob in all it's glory!

 

[Rob Pulham]

Things are coming together nicely but up to yesterday there wasn't much to show.

 

First I folded down the inside section of the top half on the sides and soldered it in place to and bottom.

 

Then I drilled out all the holes for the door handles, bump stops etc.

 

Next was the task that many dread, creating the tumble home or turn under. My method for doing this makes it quite simple (or I think so).

 

I get a strip of 2" masking tape a bit longer than the coach side and stick it to the outside of the coach, level with the bottom of the windows. I have a length of 28mm diameter tube that is about 18" long (a left over from fitting a curtain rail).

 

I placed the coach side outside face down on the sheet of plate glass that covers most of my work bench top with the remainder of the sticky side of the masking tape facing upwards.

 

Next I placed the tube on the sticky tape adjacent to the bottom edge of the coach side. I wrapped the rest of the tape around the tube.

 

Then grasp the tube at each end where there was no tape I rolled the tube towards the centre of the coach gently but firmly. The masking tape pulls the coach edge around the tube and the tumblehome is formed.

 

On the first side I went a little too far and had to bring some of the curve back out by laying the back of the side on the glass and gently pressing along it. The second side came out perfectly first time. If there is interest in the method I will do a step by step as I do the next one.

 

Next I soldered in the bump stops. These are not provided in the kit - the instructions suggest that you solder in 0.45mm wire. These are I believe from Laurie Griffin but I got them in with a lot of other spares and I think that I have enough to do another couple of coaches after this one. I have made them from scrap etch and rod before but to be honest having seen how nice these are I will buy some more in the future when I need them.

 

The T handles are very nicely cast and are included in the kit. There are also some nicely etched grab handles that I was a bit dubious about initially - initially went to the trouble of soldering a piece of 0.5mm wire to the back of one to beef it up but it was the very devil to bend. So I went back to trying the etch as supplied and they are more substantial than I first guessed. What I do like about this kit is that there are loads of spares of a lot of the pieces. So far I have spare T handles/grab handles/hinges and drop lights.

 

The hinges are a really nice touch, they come as three fingers that go through the coach side which once you have soldered them solid there is a half etched line which allows them to be snapped off leaving behind differing hinges for the various points on the coach side - some care is needed to get them all the right way up before soldering them in. The etched slits for these needed opening out a little with a .5mm drill.

 

Once all these were in place you need to snip off the ends that protrude inside and clean/file back so that the drop lights can be fitted. I did this with a diamond coated ball bit in my Dremell.

 

Next up is fitting the drop lights and then the cornice strip. The cornice strips are handed so once again double check to make that you have the right one with the rain strips above the doors.

 

Once all this was done I gave everything a good clean up and made sure that all the stubs on the inside face were ground/filed off (I had missed a few earlier).

 

I had decided that on this coach I would represent the end windows as having been filled in with a solid panel – blanks are provided for this so I bent them to shape and soldered them in before starting to add the sides

 

Then came soldering the first side on, I started with the compartment side – this being the one that the tumble home had gone perfectly. I initially sat the floor pan on my sheet of glass and placed the side up to it. When I was satisfied that it was all sat level, I tacked the top of the bulkheads leaving the ends free. Once I was happy that it was all going into position where it should I tacked the bottoms of the bulkheads, then I worked my way down the sides of the bulkheads and across the bottom seams finally ding the ends last.

 

Here are a few shots of what it looks like at this point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I couldn’t resist a glimpse through the window….

 

 

A couple of shots of the drop lights and the “chrome” handrail – this wasn’t supplied I just reasoned that nickel would represent the handrail better and I have just restocked various sizes.

[Rob Pulham]

The next items on the agenda are the interiors. This coach is a little different in that there is a unit that makes up into twin first class compartments, a second unit that makes up into a twin open third bay and a third unit that makes up into a two and half third bay. The generic instructions cover the make-up of the compartments but not the semi open bays so I had to do a bit of head scratching to see what was what and where it went.

 

This is another area where you get a few spares this time in the form of open partitions without luggage racks. I elected to use those with luggage racks and once I had worked out which went where I had to think about the fact that luggage racks are etched flat so they needed to be twisted into position. I almost did one of them wrong in the single seat bay – I was planning on bending them over the wood panelled area but then I remembered Chris saying that Peter Dawson had told her that the luggage racks screwed on after painting. As I was thinking about it I noticed that at the out end of the full height partitions there are two holes – light bulb moment, to screw the luggage racks to. Once I realised this it was easy to work out which partition went where and which way to twist the low luggage racks to orientate them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also found an etch containing some small latches for the sliding doors to the compartments so I added them.

 

The rest of the luggage racks and the nets for these are to follow with the rest of the bits that are missing.

[Mallard60022]

This is going to be one superb coach. Absolutely cracking work so far.

I look forward to seeing you tackle that roof end 'dome'.

Phil @36E

[Rob Pulham]

Thanks Phil,

 

I am part way there on the roof - I hope to get it finished and ready for show tomorrow evening.

[N15class]

This is looking good Rob. What is it like to build? All well fitting?

[Rob Pulham]

This is looking good Rob. What is it like to build? All well fitting?

 

Hi Peter,

 

So far everything except the roof has fitted perfectly. With the roof I suspect that it's the way that I have done it rather than a fault with the kit. The design of the roof is quite well thought out but you need to be quite precise with the rolling of it and I don't think that I was perhaps precise enough. I hope the the next one will turn out as it should (fingers crossed).

[coachmann]

Great Northern's coaches....Great!  What smashing interior detail and worth it in 7mm. I was going to ask about the livery but I expect it only carried grained teak.....(?)

[Mallard60022]

Rob, don't suppose you could find a resin pre formed 7mm roof if the existing one becomes too much of a pig?

On the 4mm ones, that you know I have somewhere, I might well try a Mr. Trice product, 51L or maybe a Comet one (unless that is a Trice one!!!!!) if the domed ends create too much havoc.

P

[pete_mcfarlane]

Being a 4mm scale modeller the toilet door knob was a bit impressive! I'm not sure that I'd fancy the etched roof though.

[Rob Pulham]

Great Northern's coaches....Great!  What smashing interior detail and worth it in 7mm. I was going to ask about the livery but I expect it only carried grained teak.....(?)

 

Hi Larry,  it will be turned out as in LNER days so grained teak it will be,

[Rob Pulham]

What a few of you have been waiting for -  The Roof. 

 

I made up the formers exactly as per the instructions and rolled the roof – half etched side inwards. This I really struggled with and contrary to the instruction I had to solder the roof formers to the roof in order to stop coming out of the locating holes while trying to fit some etched wedges. The idea if you can make it work is quite ingenious and I suspect that I didn't get the roof rolled tight enough and I hope to do better on the next one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then last night completely contrary to the instructions (they suggest liquid metal or body filler) I filled the end with 100 degree solder. On the second end I also dropped in some .45mm wire to fill a couple of the wider gaps. This was quite successful when I rubbed it down so I will probably do a lot more of that when I do the next one.

 

I didn't take any photos before I started to rub it down but here are a few as at bedtime last night. Both ends still need more work but I think that on one end at least it will be a bit of Squadron putty to finish it off. I will decide on the other once I have rubbed it down some more

 

 

 

[Mallard60022]

That looks like a right faff mate, ingenious design maybe but awkward to get right by the look of it. It will be interesting to see the subtle dome shape once you have given it the full Pulham treatment.

P

[coachmann]

This is one area where a resin roof of some sorts would fit the bill nicely. In fact it was the roof that drew me to using Hornby's Gesley coaches as 'frames' on which to build fresh coaches with etched sides. Someone in 7mm should look at making 3-D roofs.

[Rob Pulham]

This is one area where a resin roof of some sorts would fit the bill nicely. In fact it was the roof that drew me to using Hornby's Gesley coaches as 'frames' on which to build fresh coaches with etched sides. Someone in 7mm should look at making 3-D roofs.

 

Peter Dobson of Newbould models does some nice resin dome ends much like the MJT ones - these are from a D167 LNER Buffet Car that will be gracing this thread after the next Kemilway. I do have more of the next one in that I also have the underframe eches for it too but I still need the bogies and the luggage racks etc.

 

 

What I am not sure of is whether he would sell them separately or if he did whether I could make them fit 

[Rob Pulham]

I don't feel to have made much progress in the last few days but I have done a bit.

 

Firstly I discovered a gaff! - I had soldered the cornice onto the coach side not the cornice spacer

 

 

The offending cornice marked in red 

 

 

It should have been a plain strip....

 

Before I plucked up the courage to take the cornice off I spent an hour or so making this.

 

 

 

What on earth is that I can hear you muttering.. well it's a jig to do this

 

 

 

You just place it on the coach end and run solder along the underside edge and all the roof fingers solder down without having to worry about any springing off. The blackening stops the jig from being soldered to the roof. I made it from the scrap etch that the formers came out of. It's only good for the Great Northern roof profile coaches but when I get some of the LNER coaches I will make another. When I get to the next roof I will take photos to demonstrate it in action.

[Rob Pulham]

While I haven't posted much with my laptop dying I have made further progress.

 

I have taken the D114 as far as I wanted to without the other bits from Kemilway. They duly arrived last week (all apart from some wire and some bolts).

 

Here's where I got to. I also started the second coach and I have the floor pan folded up and the sides ready for the tumble home forming - I haven't taken pictures because it's more of the same.

 

The roof is just resting on at the moment because it's the long roof bolts that I am still waiting for.

 

 

 

I soldered some tabs on the back of the gangway board so that it's removable if I want to have the coach in the middle of a rake.

 

 

[Rob Pulham]

A recent Ebay buy was a Bill Bedford kit for a NBR/LNER D71 BG, I say "kit" but it's more sides ends and underframe. One evening I needed a bit of a distraction from rolling the tumblehome for the second Kemilway so I thuoght I would see how well the BB kit went together.

 

The sides are in two halves that are lap jointed a bit like Comet 4mm LNER coach sides if anyone has ever made them. I have to say that they go together very positively and were a joy to solder up. The sides themselves are nicely etched but the one thing that all the parts suffer from is that where there are holes for slots/tabs or door handles etch they are all etched too big. 

 

In order to support the solebars I made up some brackets shaped like this

 

 

 

 

There are some etched battery boxes included but the details was a bit 2D so I made up some hinge detail from scrap etch and 0.5mm wire.

 

 

 

Next up I created the tumblehome. back up the thread I offered to detail how I do this so I took the opportunity to take step by step photos while doing it.

 

First stick a strip of 2" masking tape to just below the windows.

 

 

Place your piece of rod on the remaining strip of masking tape and roll it around until it's stuck to the rod and up against the bottom of your side.

 

 

Then continue to roll gently but firmly and the tape pulls the side into a curve.

 

 

 

 

 

And there you have it.

[coachmann]

What diameter rod Rob?

[Rob Pulham]

What diameter rod Rob?

 

Hi Larry,  it's about 35mm

[Rob Pulham]

I am still sidelined by the NBR BG. :0)

 

One of the three battery boxes provided is actually split into two smaller boxes and as such does have any ends supplied. I made some from scrap etch to fill the gap basing them on the out ends which are provided.

 

 

 

 

 

 

next up is a shot of the guard's ducket which is included but which needs the ends to be rolled very tightly in order to get it to fit nicely - the ends have half etched lines on the back to assist with this.

 

 

And the rear view - so far I haven't soldered it, it's held by the tabs.

 

 

And finally the door handle and hinge detail. I had some nice cast T handles in stock but the longer guards lever handles I made from 0.8mm wire annealed and flattened in a pair of smooth jawed pliers. because as I mentioned earlier all the etched holes are a bit on the big side I had to make and escutcheon plate to cover the hole and for the hinges I used folded scrap etc pinched together in the pliers to fill the hole and give a nice hinge representation.

 

[jwealleans]

I've been watching this with increasing trepidation, Rob (as you know, I have two of these kits in 4mm).

 

Are those handles the right way round? Not that I know, it's just that they're the opposite way to LNER coaches.

[Rob Pulham]

Hi Jonathan,

 

It has taken me all day to work out that you are referring to the Kemilway kit's

 

DOH - sorry my mind was on the BB NBR BG - for which, in answer to your question regarding layout of the guards door handles. I am referring to/working from the van ends on the Iain Smith NBR drawings in Nick Camplings Historic Carriage Drawings volume one.

 

Back to talking about the Kemilway kits, now I think that I have a handle on forming the roof I am very impressed with them (I will do a step by step on the next roof) - everything fits as it should - the key to remember is that all the folds are to the outside not the inside as they are with most kits. 

[Rob Pulham]

The problem solving juices were flowing nicely last night!

 

I have sorted a way to fasten on the upper step boards by folding strips of scrap etch around the half etched tabs (bearing in mind the size of the etched holes these would have been much better if they were full thickness not half etched - I cannot fathom the thinking behind having something that essentially provides support, half etched)  and leaving a longer bit underneath as extra support (on all except the three centre ones where the supports for the lower step boards will go).

 

Hopefully the photos below will illustrate this better than I can describe it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

At the moment the one side that I fitted last night is just a press fit and to be honest I could probably get away without soldering it, it's that good a fit.

 

 

Above are the coach ends as supplied and I was thinking about scratch building some gangway doors when I had a bit of a light bulb moment. In some of the Kemilway kits there are two or three outer ends representing various changes over the life of the vehicle. So I cut a couple of these down to fit.

 

I plan to get some scissor gangways from CPL (they are GWR but hopefully  can adapt them into something that looks NBRish...) so I wont solder these in until I know what I don't need to do to fit them with the support pieces that are currently inside the openings.

 

 

 

Readers of the whole thread will recall that on the Kemilway's there are some really nice cast door knobs. I didn't have any spare and although I am sure that Peter Dawson would sell me some if I asked, I decided to see if I could make some. I got a couple of short handrail knobs fitted a piece of brass wire through to fill the hole and then soldered it in. I then filed it until it was round again and then filed the top flat and it looks pretty good, bearing in mind how small they actually are!