Steve's Caledonian coaches & wagon work bench

[PeterR]

So composites with a central brake compartment had ducket ends in vermilion but the coach ends not? and only full brakes or composites with duckes built into the ends of the coaches had full vermilion ends or did I misunderstand it. Sorry to be a pain

 

Hi,

 

Brake compt. end vermillion (not the other end!)   Central brake;  ends not known (not enough photos - they are very rare, and naturally in black & white) : ducket sides (with glass in them) vermillion red (from different shade of grey).

 

Full brakes - if any duckets, (early ones had a ducket - later (elliptical roof) ones did not), in the centre so possibly chocolate (the same as normal coaches)  ends, sides of duckets vermillion I would think (from the centre brake compos).  Info from CR liveries; also nothing in the waist panels of guards compt. or luggage doors; the duckets had a number in the waist panel.

 

 

However the 1923 brake compo re-painted by BR in c.1958 has no duckets and no vermillion end - that could be due to painting ends a different colour = extra cost, after WW1.

 

There are gaps in the details; Scottish railways seem to be less well documented than English ones.

 

Yours Peter

[Londontram]

Cheers Peter that's very helpful. Thanks Steve

[Londontram]

Hello all, having been ill over Christmas including time back in hospital I've only just this weekend managed to do a little modeling. one of the jobs I wanted to look at as the little 32 ft WCJS 6 wheel composite lavatory coach which although another cut and shut from the Triang clerestory coach needed the paneling altering quite a bit to give it a more WCJS look as apposed to the Drummond style paneling which the Triang coach closely matches. So out came the dremmal and a fine grinding tool and most of the paneling was ground away and then using evergreens fine plasticard strips the up and down strips were replaced as can be seen in the first two photo’s which you can compare from a photo taken before the paneling was done,

  and an older photo before the paneling was altered

  it looks a mess but when painted should look OK well more like a WCJS coach hopefully.

 

      Photo four shows the coach now compartmented off with seats added as well as the toilet compartments most of which most likely will never be seen again once frosted windows and the roof are fitted still it dose show how the two centre first class compartments each had access to here own toilets the people in the two outer third class compartments just having to cross there legs. it still needs to have toilet seats fitted  

The clerestory sections of the roof were cut off and a section of the roof removed to make the new roof which was once the rain strips had been sanded off was covered with 5 thou plasticard with a 10 thou piece on the inside to give it strength. 

     As most of the under side will be taken up with the three axles and as most people look down into the coach I added some lead to the inside of the roof to add a bit of weight to the finished coach which can only be seen if you look up through the windows this can be seen in photo five above.

 

       While all this was set aside for the glue to set I had a go at the Killin brake and as can be seen from the next two before and after photo’s now has ends and compartments, the joins on the body have been filled and weight added to the brake compartment where it won’t be seen. In an attempt to get he look right the extra panel detail in the form of a dividing strip was added to the guard’s ducket. The ends will be paneled using more evergreen strips being a simple design its not worth cutting out a fret 

  Again thanks for looking. Regards Steve

Edited January 12, 2014 by Londontram

[Londontram]

Hi gang. Spent the first part of today making a shade to fit on a little light my sister in law gave me to try and improve the light over the modeling table, its one with a clamp fitting she used to use when she did her cross stitch so this should make life easer. Then had a look in the project box to see what took my fancy today. Remember the little 30ft brake made from the two left over clerestory brake sections back in post No. 35 well I thought I would have a go at that today so with some plasticard made up the roof by building up layers of 10 thou card and sanding it to shape then putting a skin of 5 thou plasticard over it to finish it off. The foot boards where cut to length from 10 thou plasticard with the cut out for the axles and these were fixed in place with a well known contact adhesive, when they set they will need sanding off to tidy them up a bit and supports will need to be made from brass rods or plastic strips note also the small bit of plasticard stripe added to the panel on the guards ducket in the Caledonian style. The body still needs door handles and all the end fittings and roof vents etc. but still its another step forward, here's a photo showing todays work

[Londontram]

A quick question for you guys as I know a few of you have an interest in the Highland railway, in my very limited resourse of Highland railway information it states Highland railway coaches cir. mid 1800s to 1912 were painted dark olive green changing in 1912 to moss green the question is - is there a standard Humbrol colour in there range that matches the dark olive green if so what's its number, not being very mobile at the moment it means one of the family nipping down to my local model shop who's range is limited to say the least. thanks Steve

[uax6]

Highland railway Green is an interesting colour. After WW1 the green was made up from almost any green they could lay their hands on. Indeed the bought large quantites of War Surplus Green, and then Lochgorm mixed it to get the HR Green.

 

To be honest if you can find dark olive green you won't be far off.  Looking at the humbrol site I like the colour of 116 us dark green but its matt. Others could be 30 or 76. 3 is too bright I think....

 

Andy g

[Londontram]

Thanks Andy

[uax6]

Have a look through the greens on there and also check by putting Highland railway coaches into google images, you'll see that there are lots of options!

 

Andy G

[Nelson Jackson]

Fantastic work on the coaches, they are coming along really well.

[Londontram]

Thanks Nelson hope your ok you've been a bit quite of late, guess your tied up with exams a the moment, you must let us know what your upto.Regards Steve

[Nelson Jackson]

Hello Steve

I'm fine thank you, I'm slowing catching up to speed now with my modelling but it's still slow (mainly because of school work), but I've started a NCC 12ton van which is currently shown in my workbench thread, and that's progressing well.

Thank you

Nelson

[ossy5190]

Great looking models, always nice to see another Caley modeler!

 

I've done a few similar conversions using the old tri-ang coaches. My initial plan was to create a 4 coach set of brake third/third/first/brake third as commonly seen in period photos. The problem with trying to use the tri-ang coaches as brake thirds or compos is that the Caley used lookout ducts and end windows (not the best of descriptions!) which would make a challenging conversion, even the Decent Models brass kit is a tad difficult to get right! 

 

I used Phoenix paints Caledonian Purple Brown (dull) for coaches and those in one of my old threads you previously linked to. Horse boxes (along with other non passenger stock) seen to have been painted in one of two different liveries depending upon the style of the body paneling. NPCS with passenger carriage style paneling were painted in the purple brown/lake/madder of the coaches while NPCS with planked bodies or which were based on goods stock were painted in a dull brown or 'chocolate brown' livery with yellow lettering. 

 

 

A cut and shut of two tri-ang brake thirds running on a brassmasters 6 wheel underframe. I painted the ends vermilion as a best guess based on the info I could find. 

 

Another cut and shut. Runs in a fixed set with various other 4 wheelers from a variety of sources. 

 

This one is just a repaint representing a former full first down graded to a composite. Just needs lettering and different coloured seats to represent a compo, no body modification was carried out. Sorry the quality, the battery died rather unexpectedly! 

 

My attempt at a scratch build horse box part way through an upgrade. I used Tamiya Flat Brown to represent the 'chocolate brown' NPCS livery.

 

Good luck with your conversions!
 

Ross

[Londontram]

Hello Ross it’s good to talk to you at last, your site was one of the first I came across when I was looking for inspiration and it’s continued to provide encouragement.

 

     Brake third/third/first/brake third is the classic Caley four coach formation and eventually I would like to recreate this rake too with the clerestory’s converted to 45ft Caley coaches, the full first is easy as its basically just a re-roof and re-paint as the window, panel and compartment spacings are spot on. The full third isn’t to bad either needing two Triang brake thirds and using three compartments from one and five from another making the eight compartments required (and the left over brake sections can be used in another 6 wheel full luggage brake so are not wasted) The ones needing the most work are as you say the brake thirds which need the compartments increasing from 5 to 6 and as you said the duckets repositioning at the ends of the coach combined with end windows, still it can be done with a bit of cutting and rearranging but I want to finish off the 6 wheelers first before I think about the 45ft bogie coaches. I’m lucky that another member sent me copies of the plans for most of the 45ft coaches and diagrams for the 6 wheelers which helps. I don’t think I would like to attempt a 45f brake composite that would take so much chopping and need a Triang first and brake third to do it so that’s not in the future plans, I do like the look of the 45ft full brake but I think that would need complete sides doing and I don’t fancy cutting that out as a fret so might drop some hints to Andy aka uax6 and his new profile cutter to see if he wants a little commission job (I’ve got the plans already friend, mate, bud, pal, mucker)

 

     You can see from the posts the variety of 6 wheelers I’m doing one of which I made an absolute howler with and made it one compartment to short (how could I do that? well I do know I was looking at the wrong diagram….Doh) but have since discovered from photo’s it’s a perfect match for a 5 compartment Highland railway full third so that’s getting a repaint in olive green, not sure if it can run with Caley stock as Caley coaches are air braked and I don’t know about the system used on the Highland if it just vacuumed or duel fitted, any one know? (Might need a bit of modellers licence here)

 

        I had some paint I had mixed for some early LCC London trams which is a near perfect match for Caley coach brown so have gone with that and your vermillion ends on the small full brake seems spot on, looking at photo’s the brake thirds with the end duckets also had vermillion ends and I have a photo showing that even The passenger ends of the coach were vermillion but brake composites with the brake compartment in the middle of the coach seem to have plain brown ends unless you have seen other wise.

   Anyway look forward to talking again regards Steve

[Londontram]

As a follow on from the last post the brown I use on the Caledonian coaches is an equal mix of Humbrol No. 60 Scarlet and No.98 Chocolate which I originaly mixed for some early London trams, there both matt so a varnish of your choice either gloss or satin is required I think it looks OK plus being Humbrol its easy to get hold of. Steve

[uax6]

The Highland was a Vacuum line, but they did have dual fitted stock for through workings onto the GNoSR and possibly the CR, so I think we'll let you off! Do you know what HR diagram it is, I can look it up if you really want to know!

 

I might do you a caley brake, but have lots of HR stuff to churn out first!

 

Andy G

[Londontram]

The Highland was a Vacuum line, but they did have dual fitted stock for through workings onto the GNoSR and possibly the CR, so I think we'll let you off! Do you know what HR diagram it is, I can look it up if you really want to know

 

Andy G

Sorry Andy I'm just working from a photo in a book at the moment and trying to salvage a big b@lls up that I made, lets just say it looks more like this Highland coach in layout rather than any Caley one as far as I know the Caley never made a 6 wheel five compartment third. Its in the book "The Highland railway" by Fenwick and Geddes from "The History press" on page 72 and the photo is more about the coach colour showing it in the short lived 1897 to 1902 green and white colour scheme, it's a five compartment 6 wheel full third with very conventional Drummond style paneling with plain flat panel ends. Bit unsure about copy right but will see if my brother in law (he has a scanner I dont) can scan it and either post it here or send it to you

Edited January 19, 2014 by Londontram

[uax6]

It's ok, I don't need the picture, there was only one type of that sort of 6 wheeler... I'll see if any were dual fitted so that you can have a number...

 

Andy G

[Londontram]

A few posts back I asked the question

      Next job was to fit seats and seat backs I believe first class seats were blue (please correct if you know otherwise) but I’m not sure of third class any one know?

 

Looking on some of the past posts on the Caledonian association forum one referance states that the 3rd class seat on the 45ft coaches were red/brown and 1st class dark blue, I would guess that the 35ft 6 wheelers would have been the same so I'm going to go with that

[Londontram]

Andy, just in case here's the photo of the 6 wheel five compartment all third that was in the Highland railway book

[uax6]

Nice photo, just look at the interesting details, like the side chains in use!

 

Sadly it appears that no 6 wheelers were dual fitted, so you will have to use rule 1!
 

Andy G

[Londontram]

Sadly it appears that no 6 wheelers were dual fitted, so you will have to use rule 1!

 

Andy G

Thanks for checking Andy. Rule 1 - yes I can live with that

[ossy5190]

Here are a couple of interior pics of the two preserved Caley coaches at Bo'ness (a later period than you are modeling but should give you an idea of the colours). I used much brighter shades on my coaches so that they would show better when the roofs are fitted, I'll post a pic or two at the weekend (working away from home just now).

 

Ross 

[uax6]

Ross,

 

If you happen to be close by to Bo'ness would it be possible for you to take some pictures of the inside of the HR 6 wheeler please? (Ends of seats, toilet door, colour scheme etc)

 

Andy G

(Oh and some underframe photos would be quite handy too please)

[ossy5190]

Hi Andy

I've been meaning to pay a visit to Bo'ness for a while to get some shots of the various pre grouping vehicles in the collection. Unfortunately the museum only seems to be open from April to October so it will be a couple of months at least before I'll be able to have another look around.

 

Ross

[Londontram]

The wife went out tonight so it was out with the modelling table double quick, having a backlog of roofs to make I decided to try and get a couple done and thought I would show you how I used the old clerestory roofs as a starting point. The first job is to cut out a section of roof to bring it down to the correct length as seen in photo one with an original roof next to the coach to give an idea of how much has to be removed.

To give it strength an oblong section of 20 thou plasticard was cut and glued inside the cut down roof to give it strength before the next stage as seen in photo two.

Using a dremmel type tool with a cutting disc the clerestory roof is cut off and the roof sanded down to remove rain strips and any paint this can be seen in progress in photo three.

Photo four shows some bridging pieces roughly put in to the gap where the clerestory was to support the new roof covering.

Normally I put an outer cover of 5 thou plasticard over the roof but I’ve tried a piece of 5 thou brass on one of the coaches first giving it a slight bend round a broom handle to help it keep its shape, the end result is very good and is a lot stronger but there is the added cost so will most likely stick with the plasticard  but I hope these photo’s show how I used part of the original roof to get the shape of the new roof, you can see both the plasticard and brass one in the last photo. Just need to get some vents and lamp holders now, of interest Caledonian 4 wheel and 6 wheel coaches did not have rain strips.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Londontram