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Layout Track Plans in Exhibition Programmes


s182ggu

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Thought I'd put in my two Euro worth before this thread gets closed down. As the owner (not sure of the noun, should it be slave?) of a couple of exhibition layouts, I always provide a track plan as an Excel spreadsheet.

 

As a punter at an exhibition, I rarely refer to a track plan as the mark 1 human eyeball can transmit the plan to the brain. Maybe for a complex layout, or where it is set high up.

 

The times when I would appreciate a track plan are in magazines and on the web, where the photographs provide a limited snapshot of the whole layout. This has been touched on in this thread, and I'm guilty of not providing a track plan on my Höchstädt thread. Will be done.

 

Bill

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Speaking again as a seasoned exhibitor of a number of layouts I cannot let this remark pass without comment. This sort of thinking is both unrealistic and the fast route to killing model railway exhibitions in the UK.

OK, I apologise for that specific remark it was actually a bit glib and sure didn't read well especially when removed out of context with the following text. Remember my point there was that other expo managers seen to be able to do it and that included Wycrail in 2011.

 

I understand the problems for the one-man band show organiser but still believe that this type of show is in a very different league from those who produce the professional events that also have a priced show guide. If the event is that small stick with the A4 sheet layout plan. I'll be happy with just that. We are talking in this topic about the larger and substantially club managed shows that issue a show guide and expect to gain in status and financially from doing so.

 

I keep coming back to the one issue that has confused me here - why the Wycrail guide in 2011 had the majority of layouts with plans whereas 2013 did not? I cannot see that explained by all the layout owners concerned never having produced a track plan.

 

Oh, and let's not forget the reason why most (if not all) shows are organised - to make money for the hosting club.

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Having drawn quite a few track plans for a magazine, you'd be surprised at the amount of research and effort goes into producing a plan of even the smallest shunting plank.

 

Often you are only supplied with a couple of owner's own photographs, which inevitably leads to layout errors on which to base your drawing. Believe it or not, even vital information such as layout dimensions can be left to the imagination, never mind such details as brand of track used (useful for geometry layout). I've even deduced a plan size from known propriety buildings and scaled accordingly. Once I had a hand drawn detailed and scaled plan, however, the time saved in research was spent replicating the expectations of the fine details.

 

Lead times and deadlines aside, then you have the owner and the magazine to please, and the feedback revision loop to prepare drafts, and alter and amend the plan's scale, accuracy and style.

 

For a small layout with average complexity,  I would say it takes about a full days work to get something approaching the standard of the mainstream magazines (track, baseboard, detailed infrastructure, annotation, greenery, roads, trees, buildings, textured and coloured). Then about a half day to revise and amend. If I didn't volunteer my services, I would charge a very generous £17.50 (average rates) an hour and for 12 hours work, so we're looking at around £210 a plan.

 

Who can afford that? Ok, it's aimed at the same quality as in the popular magazines but still, even for 6 hours work for a lower quality (b&w, track, baseboard, blocked out infrastructure) it's still over a £100.

 

Even if services are free, the time taken to produce quality plans would scare most designers for a suite of 15 or so track plans, that's a month's work that is.

 

Obviously, the quality and time are scalable if costs are eliminated, software such as Anyrail (excellent imo) will help but still, it's a big thankless task to provide the illustrations for a show guide. I really do salute those who do take the time to produce or include plans in their guides.

 

Paul

 

Btw, if you do want to pay for a quality plan, I'm open to offers :yes:

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For a small layout with average complexity,  I would say it takes about a full days work to get something approaching the standard of the mainstream magazines (track, baseboard, detailed infrastructure, annotation, greenery, roads, trees, buildings, textured and coloured). Then about a half day to revise and amend. If I didn't volunteer my services, I would charge a very generous £17.50 (average rates) an hour and for 12 hours work, so we're looking at around £210 a plan.

 

I'm sure your plans are of exceptional quality. A standard to be aimed for by magazines when publishing feature articles but it is not what is required or what I'm asking for in show guides.

All I ask for is what can be seen already in most of the better show guides the type of simple plan produced by nearly everyone who intends to build a layout. The sort of thing included in Wycrail 2011 show guide is perfectly acceptable (though obviously I would hope the minority number who didn't supply one there to be encouraged to do so).

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I don't think anyone is expecting "magazine style" track plans - just a B&W line drawing is adequate.

 

Of course, but I think the point I was making is that there is still an awful lot of work to do to get an accurate plan, whether it's hand drawn or laid out in Adobe Illustrator. As a 3rd party trying to decipher another's layout from a few photos can take a lot of time in order to understand it and then authentically communicate it to a reader.

 

For an owner to draw his/her own plan, skills aside, it's simply a matter of putting pen to paper.

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Ok, I have thrown my hat into the ring, just in case I ever finish this masterpiece and decide to exhibit it, I have laid it down on to the interweb so it can be re-produced without my permission at anytime, hopefully it will help those without a noggin' of sense to decipher the intricate track plan  :mosking:

post-8721-0-54195700-1383744872_thumb.jpg

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I repeat once again Kenton you can only print what the exhibitor sends you What don't you understand?

ELTEL,

 

the irony here is that, once you have produced a track plan, you can send it out each time you are asked for it. The same for the layout description copy for the show guide. To me, the text and drawing I provide for the show guide are an extension of the layout and should reflect what I am trying to achieve with the model.

 

So why don't exhibitors do it? Suitable software is readily available for producing drawings. I use CorelDraw, but there appear to be plenty of free packages available such as Serif. The drawing can be amended/updated to reflect changes or add more information. A hand made drawing can be photocopied for distribution.

 

The show invites I have received all ask for a description and a track plan. It's impolite to ignore a such a reasonable request so perhaps a reply to any delinquent layout owner to that effect might get a result.

 

Jol

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I am not sure at this stage how many of the 40 plus layouts that are booked for Stafford Exhibition next Febuary but I would take a guess and say at least 50% of the layouts will have not sent us a track diagram.

 

I will off course cancel thease layouts so as not to offend.

 

Like hell we will!

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I suppose if anyone was that desperate to see & study the track plans, you could always take your own pen and paper and draw them yourself ???

A very good point I think.  I'm not at all sure why anyone wants a trackplan unless they intend to copy it or take features from it - all of which could, i think, be achieved by photography or sketching (except in a really busy show where either or both might be impractical) but when it comes to trackplans all we are basically looking at is a series of, usually, standard features combined in a particular way.  True there are exceptions (e.g Quai 87) where truly original features come into play but again perhaps best recorded on pixels rather than in a track plan although overall layout dimensions may be pertinent and are something which would help.

 

But again I will make a point I made earlier - a trackplan is only any use if know how it can be or is used, so you have to study the layout to get at least a feeling for that and if you do study it the trackplan is likely to form itself into your mind (although I appreciate that many peoples' minds might not necessarily work in that way).

 

And incidentally some trackplans are so simple, or simplistic, I can't really see the point in including them in a show guide while others are very clever uses of space that only begin to make sense as you watch them being worked.

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A case in point.  I have just received, 4 weeks before the show, a track plan of a very interesting layout where it could be useful to include it.  It is a copy of a copy and unless I set to work in CAD to redraw it from scratch which would take many hours it's not fit for purpose.    I'm going to use the photo as usual.   We are modellers not graphic artists.

 

Jamie

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ELTEL,

 

the irony here is that, once you have produced a track plan, you can send it out each time you are asked for it. The same for the layout description copy for the show guide. To me, the text and drawing I provide for the show guide are an extension of the layout and should reflect what I am trying to achieve with the model.

 

So why don't exhibitors do it? Suitable software is readily available for producing drawings. I use CorelDraw, but there appear to be plenty of free packages available such as Serif. The drawing can be amended/updated to reflect changes or add more information. A hand made drawing can be photocopied for distribution.

 

The show invites I have received all ask for a description and a track plan. It's impolite to ignore a such a reasonable request so perhaps a reply to any delinquent layout owner to that effect might get a result.

 

Jol

I agree and all our club layouts and majority of our club members layouts do just as you suggest.

 

But as a exhibition manager you can not make a exhibitor supply a track plan if he has not got one or does not want to go the the trouble gopher making one. That's his/her choice

 

So however much Kenton screams and shouts it ain't as easy as he makes out.

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A case in point.  I have just received, 4 weeks before the show, a track plan of a very interesting layout where it could be useful to include it.  It is a copy of a copy and unless I set to work in CAD to redraw it from scratch which would take many hours it's not fit for purpose.    I'm going to use the photo as usual.   We are modellers not graphic artists.

 

Jamie

Here Here

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I suppose if anyone was that desperate to see & study the track plans, you could always take your own pen and paper and draw them yourself ???

The same point was made way back at the start. It has one major drawback - it relies on the pencil operator to be able to judge distance and reproduce curves as on the layout and that it is only one version of the schematic. So the visitors all end up having to take physical notes, duplicating effort. Besides I always forget to take the pencil and notebook along with my £1 to purchase the show guide. ;)
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So however much Kenton screams and shouts it ain't as easy as he makes out.

So when you ask politely no one replies - or is it the way you ask as in this topic.

 

Is it a decision made by you not to include the trackplans that are supplied or is it that the layouts invited to your show are all of the type that are so brilliantly devised that they never started from a track plan?

 

I simply do not believe that out of 15 or so invited layouts to any show that none of them supply a trackplan when asked.

 

Oh and I've just randomly selected another show guide - Uckfield 2012. This show I would not place in the same league but is nevertheless a quality show. The guide is simply printed and in no way glossy - I can't remember if there was a charge. Their score is an amazing 14/14 layouts presented with track plans. Perhaps you can see why I'm somewhat sceptical when you seem to say no one supplies track plans when asked? Even more so when it is suggested that none even have one to supply.

 

And yet another example WRF/Railwells 2012 (I include this as it had a layout [bridport Town] that was at Wycrail 13 so presumably the same information pack) 11/12 with track plans on a very well laid out 4 sheets of A4 as a entry ticket give away.

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 So when you ask politely no one replies - or is it the way you ask as in this topic.Is it a decision made by you not to include the trackplans that are supplied or is it that the layouts invited to your show are all of the type that are so brilliantly devised that they never started from a track plan?I simply do not believe that out of 15 or so invited layouts to any show that none of them supply a trackplan when asked.Oh and I've just randomly selected another show guide - Uckfield 2012. This show I would not place in the same league but is nevertheless a quality show. The guide is simply printed and in no way glossy - I can't remember if there was a charge. Their score is an amazing 14/14 layouts presented with track plans. Perhaps you can see why I'm somewhat sceptical when you seem to say no one supplies track plans when asked? Even more so when it is suggested that none even have one to supply.And yet another example WRF/Railwells 2012 (I include this as it had a layout [bridport Town] that was at Wycrail 13 so presumably the same information pack) 11/12 with track plans on a very well laid out 4 sheets of A4 as a entry ticket give away.

You wrongly quoted

I simply do not believe that out of 15 or so invited layouts to any show that none of them supply a trackplan when asked.

 

I said

I said 40 + layouts

 

If we ask for track plans why would we not publish them

 

I am In total favour of track plans I am saying it is up to the exhibitor to supply them.

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Just to add my 2p'worth - you start by working with what you are given by exhibitors and then secondly what skills are available to the show organisers.

 

The exhibitors may give you anything from a high quality print ready image to a low res scan of a hand drawn plan, or they may give you nothing (despite being asked). If the layout features in a mag which draws up a decent plan then it is often worth the owner(s) asking for a copy of the file plus permission to use it - most (if not all?) mags are happy to let the images be re-used, particularly if suitable credit is given. The next question is does it matter if the plans are of different quality? Ideally they would be consistent, but that takes time/skill.

 

Leading onto the next point - what skills are available? I'm pretty IT savvy, but I know that I won't produce nice-looking, high quality layout plans as I'm not a graphic designer. Sure I can create a computer version of the hand-drawn sketch, but is that good enough? How long will it take etc?

 

So we are back to balancing effort and skills vs outcomes....

 

For the record I'm one of the two organisers of DEMU's Showcase and this year we printed track plans for all but 2 or 3 of the 12 layouts, I can only imagine it gets much harder for the larger shows!  Our basic starting point is that we try to make the Showguide attractive and useful to our exhibitors, traders and visitors - so descriptions of layouts, photos if possible, contact details for traders, floor plan. We are fortunate to be in the position that we could have them professionally printed and give them away for free.

 

Feel free to critique this year's guide (personally I think Guy made an excellent job of it): http://www.demu.org.uk/showcase/2013/ShowGuide2013.pdf

 

Cheers, Mike

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You wrongly quoted

I simply do not believe that out of 15 or so invited layouts to any show that none of them supply a trackplan when asked.

 

I said

I said 40 + layouts

 

If we ask for track plans why would we not publish them

 

I am In total favour of track plans I am saying it is up to the exhibitor to supply them.

Sorry ELTEL I must have missed the 40+ layouts.

 

I think we are disagreeing then only on the few (perhaps less than 20%) of the layout owners failing to include a track plan? But those that do so should have them included in the show guide especially if the punter is being asked to pay for it.

 

I don't really support the idea of force but more of the idea that it becomes the norm to have one in the pack ready to submit to the show manager as the vast majority of layout builders can wield a pencil and start with a layout plan. Possibly more and more layout owners will feel that something is missing when they see they layout information lacking something against others in a show guide. Perhaps they really couldn't care less. (which I find hard to believe)

 

I guess this all boils down to the question of what am I getting in terms of value for the 50p or £1 I'm paying for the show guide?

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