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Thanks for all the replies.  I think my question should have been as the Cl91 blunt end has a buckeye coupler and rubbing plate, why did the HST TGSs need buffers? Although it seems that it was decided they didn't, which I wasn't aware of...

On 31/07/2021 at 10:16, Satan's Goldfish said:

I once read that only a couple of the ECML TGS received buffers for those tests before the decision was made that they weren't needed with the 91s coupled up.

 

As for the other end of the set, the HST Cl43 with buffers, this was needed for coupling up to "conventional" locos.  I remember seeing the hybrid HST/91 sets running between Leeds and Bradford, before that route was electrified, hauled in both directions by a Cl31 - buffers and screwlinks involved.

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11 hours ago, DavidBird said:

Thanks for all the replies.  I think my question should have been as the Cl91 blunt end has a buckeye coupler and rubbing plate, why did the HST TGSs need buffers? Although it seems that it was decided they didn't, which I wasn't aware of...

 

As for the other end of the set, the HST Cl43 with buffers, this was needed for coupling up to "conventional" locos.  I remember seeing the hybrid HST/91 sets running between Leeds and Bradford, before that route was electrified, hauled in both directions by a Cl31 - buffers and screwlinks involved.

Maybe they thought there might be a need to haul the sets with conventional locos as well?

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On 31/07/2021 at 21:24, Mol_PMB said:

A second class compartment was better than the first class in any of today’s trains, and could even provide a form of sleeping accommodation at a push. 

 

Second class compartments were good for sleeping, at least in my experience - but only if there were two people per compartment, one each side. I remember on a very exhausting three day tour of Scotland by train, I fell asleep on the way to Georgemas Junc with the sound of a 26 throbbing away through the open windows. Excellent. 

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4 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

 

Second class compartments were good for sleeping, at least in my experience - but only if there were two people per compartment, one each side. I remember on a very exhausting three day tour of Scotland by train, I fell asleep on the way to Georgemas Junc with the sound of a 26 throbbing away through the open windows. Excellent. 

As long as the heating was on - once did a trip from Manchester to London on an overnight (not sleeping) service leaving around midnight - it was made up of Mark2a coaches and it went round the houses to get to Euston by about 4am.  It left Piccadilly, off went the lights (fine) and off went the heating to be replaced by a constant draft from the centre vestibule doors.  

 

Never again did try that, did have a better outing on a Crewe-Cardiff postal, that Mark 1 compartment was comfortable.

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Way back in 1981 I fell asleep, in a very warm ETH fitted mk1, at New Street only to wake up just as the train having changed engjnes at Coventry (slept through that) was heading past Coventry 'box towards Leamington. 

 

I should have alighted at Coventry at zbout 02:00; had to get a taxi back which cost me £10 - about £40 today. 

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I remember getting an overnight train from Preston in 1978, after a mate and I had spent the day on the station. We found an empty Mk1 compartment, pulled down the blinds turned the heating to max and shut the door. 

 

With us both laid out across the seats each side of the compartment, and thought we may get a few hours of shuteye before Euston. However, first stop was Wigan; and within minutes of the train stopping, the compartment door opened and in walked some kind of local man mountain, who proclaimed "it's hot in here" and opened the window, then turned off the heating. 

 

FFS!!

 

As we left Wigan for Warrington, we got up and went down the carriage where we soon found another empty compartment, shut the door, turned on the heater, etc., and repeated the whole process again. Fortunately, we were not disturbed again, apart from a ticket inspector at one point. 

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23 hours ago, DavidBird said:

....... why did the HST TGSs need buffers? Although it seems that it was decided they didn't, which I wasn't aware of...

 

As for the other end of the set, the HST Cl43 with buffers, this was needed for coupling up to "conventional" locos.  .........

Sometimes the TGS DID need buffers : - 

410_25.jpg.546480d6414995c040bacddc1d7b1454.jpg

 

......... when a train needed re-shuffling after arriving like this : - 410_20.jpg.89218e7ed4ba94352969d5aa449962c9.jpg

91.009 + 43.080 : 5/12/89

Edited by Wickham Green too
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Many years ago I travelled overnight to Munich, stretched out in a compartment. Unknown to me the train doubled as a commuter service towards the end of the journey and when I awoke, dishevelled, bleary-eyed and confused, there were four smartly-dressed Germans sat on the seat opposite me. Thankfully they did not seem in the least  upset ! 

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3 hours ago, caradoc said:

Many years ago I travelled overnight to Munich, stretched out in a compartment. Unknown to me the train doubled as a commuter service towards the end of the journey and when I awoke, dishevelled, bleary-eyed and confused, there were four smartly-dressed Germans sat on the seat opposite me. Thankfully they did not seem in the least  upset ! 

If that was UIC-X stock, you would have been more comfortable pulling the seats on the window side together across the compartment. The four Germans would thus have been comfortable in the four seats nearest the corridor.

 

When I inter-railed with a friend in 1975, we did this several times. On one occasion, we were sharing the compartment, with an attractive American girl of Danish origins. I did get woken at one point during the night!

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21 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Sometimes the TGS DID need buffers : - 

410_25.jpg.546480d6414995c040bacddc1d7b1454.jpg

 

 

 

Were they that short of motive power that that was all they could scrounge up for a main line working? :jester:

Edited by talisman56
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One evening four of us bagged the second class compartment in a 4CIG on a late Victoria-Brighton/Ore service which split at Haywards Heath. The usual thing was to be woken up by the 60' track on the Ouse Valley viaduct ready to fall out of the train at the Heath and make our way home. One evening we didn't and were woken up by the carriage cleaners in Ore sidings. We later discovered that CWR had been laid on the viaduct between this trip and the previous similar one...

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2 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Monty,

 

I'm as impressed by the two thirds clean front of the locomotive.

 

Gibbo.

I was taken by the stubby little signal arms.

They must be the shortest full height arms going.

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On 04/08/2021 at 23:02, melmerby said:

I was taken by the stubby little signal arms.

They must be the shortest full height arms going.

I'll raise you Wimbledon

 

 

2633.jpg

Edited by 4069
Picture restored
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On 28/07/2021 at 14:14, DK123GWR said:

Alternatively, heritage railways could show railways as they were in the good old days, before these horrible things we have nowadays called locomotives came along and ruined them.

image.png.888f695d497abd59edec849534240e0e.png

Image from wikimedia commons.

NO they produce methane which is much worse that CO2

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43 minutes ago, Vistisen said:

NO they produce methane which is much worse that CO2

 

Depends on the relative quantities.

 

Anyway horses aren't the real offenders there - it's flatulent beef cattle overfed on grass.

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How many people have Mallard and Flying Scotsman on their layout running (at the same time). Something of an excess of world-famous locomotives (indeed the top 2 in terms of 'modern' steam and pop fame).

I always thought my layout looked a bit rediculous in this regard.

However I have just found two pictures from the 1986 Shakespeare Express season. I have long known 4468 and 4472 worked alternate services during 1986 SE season, and there are pictures of a lineup of 4472, 4468 and 4498 together in Marylebone, but never realised the two RAN in tandem:

 

https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/80s/861026sl.htm

 

And this

https://www.alamy.com/lner-steam-locomotives-4472-flying-scotsman-and-4468-mallard-at-langley-warwickshire-uk-26th-october-1986-image366431541.html?pv=1&stamp=2&imageid=8ADF464F-FD8F-4DA4-BF36-CD5B9CE06CC4&p=14086&n=0&orientation=0&pn=1&searchtype=0&IsFromSearch=1&srch=foo%3dbar%26st%3d0%26pn%3d1%26ps%3d100%26sortby%3d2%26resultview%3dsortbyPopular%26npgs%3d0%26qt%3d4472%20flying%20scotsman%26qt_raw%3d4472%20flying%20scotsman%26lic%3d3%26mr%3d0%26pr%3d0%26ot%3d0%26creative%3d%26ag%3d0%26hc%3d0%26pc%3d%26blackwhite%3d%26cutout%3d%26tbar%3d1%26et%3d0x000000000000000000000%26vp%3d0%26loc%3d0%26imgt%3d0%26dtfr%3d%26dtto%3d%26size%3d0xFF%26archive%3d1%26groupid%3d%26pseudoid%3d%26a%3d%26cdid%3d%26cdsrt%3d%26name%3d%26qn%3d%26apalib%3d%26apalic%3d%26lightbox%3d%26gname%3d%26gtype%3d%26xstx%3d0%26simid%3d%26saveQry%3d%26editorial%3d1%26nu%3d%26t%3d%26edoptin%3d%26customgeoip%3d%26cap%3d1%26cbstore%3d1%26vd%3d0%26lb%3d%26fi%3d2%26edrf%3d%26ispremium%3d1%26flip%3d0%26pl%3d

 

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