Prototype for everything corner.

[Chris116]

Those Maroon coaches say EWS on the sides. 

 

EDIT From comments below it is clear that my eyes are even worse than Specsavers say!

Edited August 24, 2021 by Chris116
I got it wrong!

[Wickham Green too]

In which case the date's a wee bit adrift : according to the ever reliable Wakipedia "On 25 April 1996, the EWS brand was unveiled." !

[melmerby]

27 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

In which case the date's a wee bit adrift : according to the ever reliable Wakipedia "On 25 April 1996, the EWS brand was unveiled." !

08224 was withdrawn 27/07/88 according to sources, so they can't say EWS

 

More likely "LMS", especially as the two locos were so adorned.

Edited August 23, 2021 by melmerby

[The Pilotman]

9 hours ago, Chris116 said:

Those Maroon coaches say EWS on the sides. 

Looks more like LMS to me. And in any case, by the time EWS appeared in the UK the approach to York station didn’t look like that anymore. It would have been remodelled and was under the wires.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Western Aviator

[Pandora]

On 21/08/2021 at 07:38, DY444 said:

 

Cue a series of Class 31 lack of power jokes.  My favourite was an Old Oak driver who pointed at the eth "on" and "off" buttons on a 31/4 and dryly remarked that they determined whether you wanted to heat the train or pull it.

The consist of a single HAA wagon and a brake van behind the 31,  if the HAA has air-brakes in full working order, is there a need for the brake van?  Is it possible the HAA has a brake system defect and needs the brake van for the trip?

Edited August 24, 2021 by Pandora

[balders]

4 minutes ago, Pandora said:

The consist of a single HAA wagon and a brake van behind the 31,  if the HAA has air-brakes in full working order, is there a need for the brake van?  Is it possible the HAA has a brake system defect and needs the brake van for the trip?

31297 was vac only in 1982 hence the brake van.....it would have been running as unfitted.

 

Regards

 

Guy

Edited August 24, 2021 by balders

[rodent279]

4 minutes ago, balders said:

31297 was vac only in 1982 hence the brake van.....it would have been running as unfitted.

 

Regards

 

Guy

Were there any circumstances under which an unfitted train could be run without a brakevan?

What if it was only a 1 wagon train?

[Titan]

10 hours ago, russ p said:

 

Is that the so called Cheryl and beryl set that was used on something to do with Sellafield and upset BNFL as the thought it could be mistaken for Chernobyl !!

One thing though that train is being shunted unfitted as the Vac pipe is off on the loco

 

Not necessarily, there could be a loco on the other end providing the brake, especially as the train is moving away from the camera judging by the tail lamp and where the crew is looking.  In fact I wonder how far it is going as usually the red/white lights on the shunter suffice for shunting moves.

[Titan]

2 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

Were there any circumstances under which an unfitted train could be run without a brakevan?

What if it was only a 1 wagon train?

 

Yes, but it would normally only happen where covered by specific operating instructions which allowed the exception.

[Titan]

15 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

 

 

Back on topic (and don't forget that most of our modern sh1te plastic is built in the UK too - Newport,  Newton Aycliffe, Litchurch Lane etc)

 

We've had a pair of 20s elephant-fashion, but here's a pair coupled cab-to-cab:

Again, from the wonderful resource of Ernie of Flickr.

 

Are they coupled, or just stabled next to each other?

[rodent279]

2 minutes ago, Titan said:

 

Yes, but it would normally only happen where covered by specific operating instructions which allowed the exception.

So each case would be different? For example, having to move a crippled/failed wagon to somewhere out of the way where it can be repaired?

[Titan]

17 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

So each case would be different? For example, having to move a crippled/failed wagon to somewhere out of the way where it can be repaired?

I thought you were referring to normal and possibly regular operation.  There are different rules for emergencies or "clearing the line"  The cripple would be moved at a slow pace along with the rest of the train with a wheel skate if required, until it can be shunted out of the way. Once the cripple has made it clear of the line, I would expect any further travel required to a repair facility would be with a brake van if the brakes are inoperable, and probably overnight so the restricted speed causes minimum disruption to other traffic.

 

Or the wagon could just be abandoned like the Shenfield Shark...

Edited August 24, 2021 by Titan

[iands]

38 minutes ago, Titan said:

 

Not necessarily, there could be a loco on the other end providing the brake, especially as the train is moving away from the camera judging by the tail lamp and where the crew is looking.  In fact I wonder how far it is going as usually the red/white lights on the shunter suffice for shunting moves.

No loco on the other end. Filming at York usually took place in the 'Scarborough' bay platforms. The 08 would have drawn the stock out of the bay platform and on to Scarborough bridge, then propelled the stock, as seen in the photo, through the station and will be heading for Holgate sidings - on the right under the bridge.

[eastwestdivide]

Got your number transfers mixed up? 

 

The Transpennine Mk5 coaches carry both a 5-digit number and a long European (UIC) EVN, like 12721 here at York:

 

The last digit of the EVN is a check digit. Disregarding this, the five digits next-to-last are the same as the five-digit coach number (following the 12xxx series from the Mk3 and Mk4 coaches).

i.e. 

BR series number 12721

EVN 96 70 001 2 721-7

 

However, the other two standard class coaches in this set were numbered like this:

 

 

The things you notice when you're bored and waiting for them to open the doors!

[melmerby]

17 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

 

 

Back on topic (and don't forget that most of our modern sh1te plastic is built in the UK too - Newport,  Newton Aycliffe, Litchurch Lane etc)

 

We've had a pair of 20s elephant-fashion, but here's a pair coupled cab-to-cab:

Again, from the wonderful resource of Ernie of Flickr.

That would make a good diorama.

[lmsforever]

19 hours ago, russ p said:

 

Is that the so called Cheryl and beryl set that was used on something to do with Sellafield and upset BNFL as the thought it could be mistaken for Chernobyl !!

One thing though that train is being shunted unfitted as the Vac pipe is off on the loco

A journalist upset them by saying everybody on a tour that entered Sellafield  would glow green in the dark on a video that was made of the trip.They certainly were sensative about comments in those days think they had had a leak some time before.

[Wickham Green too]

8 hours ago, Titan said:

Are they coupled, or just stabled next to each other?

No doubt about this pair : - 

 

Muir of Ord : 15/4/80

[montyburns56]

York 1981 by George Woods

 

 

[russ p]

12 hours ago, Titan said:

 

Not necessarily, there could be a loco on the other end providing the brake, especially as the train is moving away from the camera judging by the tail lamp and where the crew is looking.  In fact I wonder how far it is going as usually the red/white lights on the shunter suffice for shunting moves.

 

I think they are been propelled into Holgate 

[TheSignalEngineer]

On 22/08/2021 at 11:49, 2251 said:

There is a general power granted to the "relevant authority" (in England, the Secretary of State; in Wales, the Welsh Ministers; in Scotland, the Scottish Ministers) by section 64 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 to authorise "the erection or retention of a sign of another character" than that prescribed by the Regulations. 

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/section/64

 

Thus it is quite possible  (indeed, likely) that these non-standard signs were specially authorised, in which case they are legal.

 

Chapter 6 of the latest edition of the Traffic Signs Manual, ( https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/traffic-signs-manual ) would seem to preclude this for new works or alterations, stating :-

 

"24.2.3.  There are situations where the standard signal to S14‑2‑5 cannot be used because of a lack of space. A narrower version is available but requires the relevant national authority’s authorisation. This has the same layout as the standard signal but with smaller gaps between the aspects and a reduced width backing board. Designers wishing to use this should contact the relevant national authority for the approved drawing."

 

I suspect that the one at Marshbrook predates the last two issues of the regs by a good few years and for some reason has never had any work done which necessitates alteration to the Level Crossing Order which would trigger upgrading to the current standard.

 

The vertical signals are very rare now on the UK mainland, I can think of one on the Ffestiniog at Minffordd which is an open crossing with four sets of vertical lights.

 

[melmerby]

13 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

 

 I can think of one on the Ffestiniog at Minffordd which is an open crossing with four sets of vertical lights.

 

This one, I assume?

I notice no chequers on the backing boards like the other one has:

Edited August 25, 2021 by melmerby

[Mol_PMB]

Yes, Lottie's Crossing (named after the former crossing keeper who lived in the house on the left).

Quarry Lane is very narrow and there isn't the width for the normal type to be visible without further reducing the carriageway wdith.

 

There are some newer installations on the Isle of Man that use a similar arrangement.

[melmerby]

The Ffestiniog seems to like variety in it's crossings as in a relatively short distance they have that one, a completely unguarded crossing with Give Way signs and a fully gated one with separate gates for the road & railway.

[montyburns56]

Bogside 1966 by David Christie

 

 

[pH]

28 minutes ago, montyburns56 said:

Bogside 1966 by David Christie

 

 

But which ‘Bogside’?