hexagon789 Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 1 minute ago, Western Aviator said: These Paignton trains (a pair of 31s and a WCML rake) were a regular feature on Summer Saturdays in the late 1980s. At one time I believe three such trains could be seen in one day. Often, one of the Euston-Birmingham/Wolverhampton rakes of mainly Mk2 stock was used but frequently spare Pullman rakes (like the one in Brian’s picture above) were used too. The Manchester Pullman rake, complete with full kitchen car (Mk1 RKB) was certainly booked to work a service to/from Paignton on simmer Sats. Presumably the RKB was used only to provide a light buffet service, I doubt full Pullman-style refreshments were on offer. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowley 47521 Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 1 minute ago, Western Aviator said: These Paignton trains (a pair of 31s and a WCML rake) were a regular feature on Summer Saturdays in the late 1980s. At one time I believe three such trains could be seen in one day. Often, one of the Euston-Birmingham/Wolverhampton rakes of mainly Mk2 stock was used but frequently spare Pullman rakes (like the one in Brian’s picture above) were used too. Yes they were a great way of ticking off the 31/4s for haulage back then. I remember a few times being in one of the front vestibules of those sets as they very noisily and very slowly lifted the train up the bank out of Paignton. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted September 20, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 20, 2021 18 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said: The ped must have been hard pushed to supply enough ETH for that train! That combination on paper is actually better than a 47 2x1470hp vs 2580hp and 31s and 47s both have an ETH index of 66. When there are two locos only one supplies ETH in this case just the rear one as its the only one fitted 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hexagon789 Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 10 minutes ago, russ p said: That combination on paper is actually better than a 47 2x1470hp vs 2580hp and 31s and 47s both have an ETH index of 66. When there are two locos only one supplies ETH in this case just the rear one as its the only one fitted Though the almost double weight of two 31/4s (2×113t) against a single 47/4 (117t) wouldn't be ideal. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted September 20, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 20, 2021 1 minute ago, hexagon789 said: Though the almost double weight of two 31/4s (2×113t) against a single 47/4 (117t) wouldn't be ideal. I've worked trains with pairs of 31s and never had issues with them , I quite like them 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted September 20, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, russ p said: I've worked trains with pairs of 31s and never had issues with them , I quite like them Careful, people will get the wrong idea... Next you'll be saying that they can pull the skin off a rice pudding! Andy G ;-) 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hexagon789 Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, russ p said: I've worked trains with pairs of 31s and never had issues with them , I quite like them But surely having nearly double the weight for only slightly more nominal traction power than a single 47 would produce a significant performance deficit? You're shifting an extra 110 tonnes of motive power weight for only 260 extra horsepower at the rail, ignoring any ETH load. Edited September 20, 2021 by hexagon789 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmacc Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, hexagon789 said: But surely having nearly double the weight for only slightly more nominally traction power than a single 47 would produce a significant performance deficit? Your shifting an extra 110 tonnes of motive power weight for only 260 extra horsepower at the rail, ignoring any ETH load. Yes and the ETH load on a 31/4 is crippling I understand. Isn’t it impossible to divert the power? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hexagon789 Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 1 minute ago, ianmacc said: Yes and the ETH load on a 31/4 is crippling I understand. Isn’t it impossible to divert the power? Wasn't that only on the earliest conversions due to the way the ETH power was provided? Later 31/4s being more conventional in that respect? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted September 20, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2021 If it was a summer working the ETH wouldn't have been in use. Do the carriage lights come from the ETH supply? Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted September 20, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 20, 2021 8 minutes ago, uax6 said: If it was a summer working the ETH wouldn't have been in use. Do the carriage lights come from the ETH supply? Andy G Aircon Andy I remember working a couple of charters on the whitby branch with single 31s and turning the ETH off going up Nunthorpe bank to get more traction power 2 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted September 20, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2021 Aircon is for wimps! I have to say that the railway without 31's is a bit of a strange place, but at least we still have 37's... Andy G 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo675 Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 23 hours ago, nightstar.train said: What livery is that first 37 in? I’ve never seen that before. It’s quite nice. Hi Tom, The livery of 37 197 is that of Riley & Son's (E) Ltd of Bury, it was dreamt up by an employee, Dave Green, who worked on the locomotive's overhaul before being it put out for spot hire. As far as I know the livery was based on a corporation bus livery from somewhere in Yorkshire. The locomotive was eventually sold to DRS in 2004 and since scraped in 2012. Gibbo. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted September 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 21, 2021 How about a single class 31 on a rake of Mk3s: Mostyn (1992) by Dave Sallery on Flickr Several coaches have been left behind somewhere to allow for air-con and motion! Steven B 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted September 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 21, 2021 (edited) How about a Webb 0-6-2 in LNWR colours, out on the mainline in 1986 with a blue/grey Mk1 BSK Isn't it cute? by Arnie Furniss, on Flickr Steven B Edited September 21, 2021 by Steven B 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted September 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 21, 2021 17 hours ago, hexagon789 said: But surely having nearly double the weight for only slightly more nominal traction power than a single 47 would produce a significant performance deficit? You're shifting an extra 110 tonnes of motive power weight for only 260 extra horsepower at the rail, ignoring any ETH load. One loco to heat the train, one loco to pull it. They can't do both..... 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hexagon789 Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 18 minutes ago, melmerby said: One loco to heat the train, one loco to pull it. They can't do both..... A single 47 can do both Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, melmerby said: One loco to heat the train, one loco to pull it. They can't do both..... Going all Tolkien on us One loco to pull them all, one loco to heat them, One loco to bank them all, and in the darkness shunt them; In the Land of Mossend where the shadows lie Edited September 21, 2021 by luckymucklebackit 2 2 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 I think people are a bit harsh on the 31's, they are just type 2s used for type 3 work, just imagine how it would be if they tried it with any other type 2! 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmacc Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 18 hours ago, russ p said: Aircon Andy I remember working a couple of charters on the whitby branch with single 31s and turning the ETH off going up Nunthorpe bank to get more traction power I always thought that you couldn’t recover the ETH as engine horsepower on the 31s hence they were underpowered? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 19 hours ago, hexagon789 said: You're shifting an extra 110 tonnes of motive power weight for only 260 extra horsepower at the rail, ignoring any ETH load. Or to put it another way, 110 tonnes = 3 additional Mk3s! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmacc Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Titan said: I think people are a bit harsh on the 31's, they are just type 2s used for type 3 work, just imagine how it would be if they tried it with any other type 2! It’s a fair point. I think being class “31” rather than a 20-something makes people subconsciously assume more horsepower too! 11 type 2s but only 9 available 2x TOPS classes meant something had to give! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted September 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 21, 2021 3 hours ago, ianmacc said: I always thought that you couldn’t recover the ETH as engine horsepower on the 31s hence they were underpowered? Seemed to give more power 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted September 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 21, 2021 2 hours ago, ianmacc said: It’s a fair point. I think being class “31” rather than a 20-something makes people subconsciously assume more horsepower too! 11 type 2s but only 9 available 2x TOPS classes meant something had to give! Which shows up the limits of the TOPS system. There are of course the "new" Class 21s used around Eurotunnel and based on HP (1500 or 2100) are type 3s or type 4s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
montyburns56 Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 This one definitely wasn't supplying enough ETH.... Chester 1985 10 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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