railsquid Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 If you are modelling Deutsche Bundesbahn in the 1950s but are short of German coaching stock, feel free to drop in a Mk1 BCK behind the Danish coach: The consensus here (German) is that it is indeed a Mk1, but no conclusion has been reached as to the how and why. 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt37268 Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 (edited) 1 hour ago, railsquid said: If you are modelling Deutsche Bundesbahn in the 1950s but are short of German coaching stock, feel free to drop in a Mk1 BCK behind the Danish coach: The consensus here (German) is that it is indeed a Mk1, but no conclusion has been reached as to the how and why. Wow! Wtf! How did that get there? It’s way after 1956 possibly the 70’s? I’m guessing also it must be air braked too? Hmm interesting. Edited March 29 by Matt37268 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 (edited) The discussion (in German) seems to conclude the third vehicle is a measurement car. 18 316 was brought out of retirement by the Federal Railway Research Office at Minden so that makes sense. There was some British stock operated on the Detmold Military Railway (about 50ish km from Minden) and abandoned there when Deutsche Bundesbahn took the line back, but that was in 1948. Is it absolutely certain it's a Mk 1 and not of LMS origin? There were some LMS coaches in WD service abandoned at Dunkirk in 1940. Some of them ended up in Germany and at least one somehow found its way to Russia. Edited March 29 by DavidB-AU 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted March 29 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 29 On elargement it clearlyhas a guard's ducket, so the LMS origin may be likely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 From the LMS Measurements Train presumably. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 5 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said: From the LMS Measurements Train presumably. This one? It would seem logical but I can't match it to the photo in Germany. http://www.traintesting.com/MTU.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
25kV Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 I don't see a ducket. Everything about the bodyside profile (continuous curve, no tumblehome; window upper lights at a slightly different angle to the main pane, as per Mk1), the door hinges, window sizes and locations, says Mk1 BCK. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 14 minutes ago, petethemole said: On elargement it clearlyhas a guard's ducket, so the LMS origin may be likely. That doesn't look like a LMS lookout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben B Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Would it have worked over there as part of the British military/BAOR? I've read about the various railway units, but thought they only operated native stock or things like wagons designed for the train ferries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 1 hour ago, 25kV said: I don't see a ducket. Everything about the bodyside profile (continuous curve, no tumblehome; window upper lights at a slightly different angle to the main pane, as per Mk1), the door hinges, window sizes and locations, says Mk1 BCK. I'm not totally convinced about BCK ( other passenger brakes are available ) .... but the LMS/BR clincher would be the presence or absence of visible underframe trussing : my eyesight doesn't see any ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted March 29 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 29 The windows are too deep - the carriage is too low-waisted - for it to be LMS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted March 29 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 29 (edited) 2 hours ago, petethemole said: On elargement it clearlyhas a guard's ducket, so the LMS origin may be likely. That's slightly smaller than the original on my PC! How about this: Or even this: Edited March 29 by melmerby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbb Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Nice , but if we are in HO scale and the UK coach is an OO model, is gonna look too wide/tall . Unless you have some Joueff Playcraft models handy of course 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 If it’s any help, the photo on https://eisenbahnstiftung.de/ has a caption, but you can’t link to it directly. However, if you go to https://eisenbahnstiftung.de/bildergalerie and search the loco number, 18 316, it’s 2nd from the end. To save you the trouble, here’s the caption Quote Carl Bellingrodt hat seine Aufnahme zwar nach Memmingen verortet, stattdessen scheint er 18 316 der Lokversuchsanstalt Minden mit einem Meßzug beim Wasserhalt im Bahnhof Bebra angetroffen zu haben. Hinter der Lok ist ein Wagen der dänischen DSB, dahinter der britischen BR eingereiht. (06.1956) Foto: Carl Bellingrodt Paraphrasing, Carl Bellingrodt [the photographer] located it as Memmingen, but it appears to be 18 316 from the loco test facility at Minden with a measurement (test?) train during a water stop at Bebra. First coach from DSB (Denmark), then a British BR* one. June 1956. *I’m assuming BR = British Railways, by analogy with the DSB mention, rather then BR=Bundesreihe (~class)! If it was a Mk1 it would be very early for a conversion to measurement use, although such a conversion could also entail adding a ducket, if that’s what it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
25kV Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 2 hours ago, Wickham Green too said: I'm not totally convinced about BCK ( other passenger brakes are available ) .... but the LMS/BR clincher would be the presence or absence of visible underframe trussing : my eyesight doesn't see any ! I was also not quite certain about BCK, but proportionally it looks to me like the best fit, given what appear to be toilet windows etc, and subsequent length of van area. But BCK or BSO aside, still very curious about what it was doing over there! 🙂 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 Is there any chance it could be one of the British MEDLOC coaches which ran from the Hook of Holland to Austria and Italy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 (edited) A public inconvenience? No room for a fiddle yard? Just terminate your railway in the middle of the scenic board with a random portaloo and a few plastic barriers. from fototak on Flickr Edited April 4 by Mol_PMB Source details 7 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
montyburns56 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 21 hours ago, Mol_PMB said: A public inconvenience? No room for a fiddle yard? Just terminate your railway in the middle of the scenic board with a random portaloo and a few plastic barriers. from fototak on Flickr That's how the French unions enforce a Personal Needs Break. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WessexEclectic Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 Prototype for everything corner - Continental Modeller edition... https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/more-details-about-the-lner-wagon-buried-in-belgium-71549/ More photos here and archived here. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 .... and here - on its own thread ! : https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/185248-lner-container-or-wagon-found-buried-in-antwerp/page/2/#comments 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 On 29/03/2024 at 00:57, railsquid said: If you are modelling Deutsche Bundesbahn in the 1950s but are short of German coaching stock, feel free to drop in a Mk1 BCK behind the Danish coach: The consensus here (German) is that it is indeed a Mk1, but no conclusion has been reached as to the how and why. The linked (German) site has an update as of 01/04 which reads..... Re: Englischer Wagen geschrieben von: kentishman Datum: 01.04.24 20:49 Weitere Kommentare (ohne Übersetzung) aus der Newsgruppe BrCoachingStock, wo das Foto ausgiebig diskutiert wurde: 1. The September 1956 Railway Observer has a couple of paragraphs concerning "BR standard coach BCK W21164" which "has recently been to the Continent for trials concerning riding of vehicles". (Wagennummer und -Typ schon hier erwähnt.) 2. Keith Parkin, Supplement to his BR Mark 1 Coaching Stock book, relating to the ride quality of BR1 bogies:Page 26 - “E S Cox informed the institute of Locomotive Engineers that, in new condition, this bogie produced an excellent ride; it astounded both its owners and continental administrations when it came out near the top in competition with the best European designs in a series of very carefully conducted riding trials in 1956-7 over French and German tracks under the auspices of O R E.” (Allerdings ganz erstaunlich: bei uns war der BR1-Drehgestell für schlechte Laufqualität berühmt!) 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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