Prototype for everything corner.

[eastwestdivide]

3 hours ago, Mel_H said:

Fancy running your brake tenders behind a BR blue Class 33?

They turned up on the Southern on some workings from Acton I think, and I definitely saw brake tenders behind a blue 33 a few times in the late 70s with stone HTVs on the Allington (Kent)/Westbury working.

[melmerby]

8 hours ago, Kelly said:

I believe it is the test runs for the 91s before the Mk4s were fully ready. They did some runs up/down the WCML just prior to introduction, and I think the middle carriages in that formation were indeed Mk4s on test as well as the 91, with a Mk3 to provide a translation between the HST power car and the Mk4s and a translator coach of some kind between the 91 and Mk4s. I am however going on memory of a thread that was posted about it elsewhere!

IIRC both the 91 & HST power car were providing traction, so loads of horsepower,

Also IIRC that's why the buffers & presumably different horns were provided.

[The Pilotman]

2 hours ago, Ian Morgan said:

Not got room for a fiddle yard, so like to keep all your trains on the layout instead?

 

Any ideas what was going on there, blockage east of Basingstoke perhaps? 

[brushman47544]

1 minute ago, Western Aviator said:

Any ideas what was going on there, blockage east of Basingstoke perhaps? 

 

Yes, line to Woking closed for engineering and all Waterloo trains reversing at Basingstoke .

[Ian Morgan]

 

5 minutes ago, Western Aviator said:

Any ideas what was going on there, blockage east of Basingstoke perhaps? 

 

It was the weekend after the Clapham accident, and all services from the West country were terminating at Basingstoke.

 

[russ p]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

IIRC both the 91 & HST power car were providing traction, so loads of horsepower,

Also IIRC that's why the buffers & presumably different horns were provided.

I remember them being used on mainly Leeds services and actually got to drive a couple when route learning but can't recall the horns being changed 

[Donington Road]

2 hours ago, melmerby said:

IIRC both the 91 & HST power car were providing traction, so loads of horsepower,

Also IIRC that's why the buffers & presumably different horns were provided.

 

Some 91/43 combination in action at Peterborough in this video.

 

[Metr0Land]

Not sure if all the buffer fitted HST's were like this or some were changed back after being taken off  the Class 91 workings.  43123 is seen at Leeds Sept 1989 whilst a uid variant is seen at Glasgow June 2000.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Metr0Land

[eastwestdivide]

Mid-1987, this 33 at North Staffs Junction/Willington power station took me by surprise heading towards Derby with a couple of departmental coaches. Any ideas on the coaches? Odd window arrangement on the blue one (ex-buffet?). I've tried enhancing the underframe area in the crop to see the bogies better. Best I can do unfortunately unless my notes turn up.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by eastwestdivide

[Gibbo675]

3 minutes ago, eastwestdivide said:

Mid-1987, this 33 at North Staffs Junction/Willington power station took me by surprise heading towards Derby with a couple of departmental coaches. Any ideas on the coaches? Odd window arrangement on the blue one (ex-buffet?). I've tried enhancing the underframe area in the crop to see the bogies better. Best I can do unfortunately unless my notes turn up.

 

 

Hi Eastwest

 

The bogies on the blue coach look to be commonwealth bogies.

 

Gibbo.

[brushman47544]

2 hours ago, Ian Morgan said:

 

 

It was the weekend after the Clapham accident, and all services from the West country were terminating at Basingstoke.

 

So they’ve done the same thing on several occasions...

[BR(S)]

Picked up O gauge OHLE transfers by mistake?

 

83009 - Longsight by Andy Sansome, on Flickr

 

[Boris]

1 hour ago, eastwestdivide said:

Mid-1987, this 33 at North Staffs Junction/Willington power station took me by surprise heading towards Derby with a couple of departmental coaches. Any ideas on the coaches? Odd window arrangement on the blue one (ex-buffet?). I've tried enhancing the underframe area in the crop to see the bogies better. Best I can do unfortunately unless my notes turn up.

 

I think its a mk1 RU? Or it was anyway

 

Like this?

[duncan]

On 07/02/2021 at 21:31, ColinK said:

Odd combination at Kings Cross in 1988. At one end there is a 91 with a test car behind.

 

 

While at the other end of the train there is an HST power car and a Mk3 sleeper.

 

 

With what looks like a Caledonian Railway route indicator on the wiper spindle !  (main line via Motherwell - ie Glasgow to Carlisle)

[Mol_PMB]

Looks like the day shift and the night shift in the paint shop were working to a different livery drawings?

 

[nightstar.train]

5 hours ago, melmerby said:

IIRC both the 91 & HST power car were providing traction, so loads of horsepower,

Also IIRC that's why the buffers & presumably different horns were provided.

Not at this stage. Initially the HST was left in idle to just power the coaches. But this was found to lead to a lot of soot building up in the engine, leading to engine problems and I think even fires. So later they altered the TDM system to command the HST as well so they both drove. Loads of horsepower as you say. 

[keefer]

6 hours ago, Boris said:

I think its a mk1 RU? Or it was anyway

 

Like this?

Definitely an RU - has a saloon window to the left of the centre door and a plated door between the two small kitchen windows, also the vents on the roof

[Mol_PMB]

That awkward corner of the baseboard where you have to put the terminal platform on a sharp curve and the long freight train looks silly on first radius:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/penmorfas/50917991316/

Edited February 9, 2021 by Mol_PMB
trying to get link to embed photo

[RP82]

15 hours ago, nightstar.train said:

Not at this stage. Initially the HST was left in idle to just power the coaches. But this was found to lead to a lot of soot building up in the engine, leading to engine problems and I think even fires. So later they altered the TDM system to command the HST as well so they both drove. Loads of horsepower as you say. 

I seem to remember reading in HST silver jubilee that the traction motor commutators would suffer glazing and possible flash overs if the power cars weren't providing traction power all the time. So the decision was to run in multi with the 91.

Has all the Mk3 TGS coaches had the retractable buffers removed now?

[PatB]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

That awkward corner of the baseboard where you have to put the terminal platform on a sharp curve and the long freight train looks silly on first radius:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/penmorfas/50917991316/

That's rather modellable. Might be fun as a new take on CJF's Tregunna plan . 

[60021 Pen-y-Ghent]

20 hours ago, nightstar.train said:

Not at this stage. Initially the HST was left in idle to just power the coaches. But this was found to lead to a lot of soot building up in the engine, leading to engine problems and I think even fires. So later they altered the TDM system to command the HST as well so they both drove. Loads of horsepower as you say. 

 

I can recall travelling from Peterborough to Leeds on such a set which was routed from Doncaster to Leeds via Knottingley. At least I think I can - I've reached the stage where the memory does what it likes!

[montyburns56]

Let me take you by the hand and lead you through the streets of St Helens....

 

 

[Tankerman]

5 hours ago, RP82 said:

I seem to remember reading in HST silver jubilee that the traction motor commutators would suffer glazing and possible flash overs if the power cars weren't providing traction power all the time. So the decision was to run in multi with the 91.

Has all the Mk3 TGS coaches had the retractable buffers removed now?

 

That is quite likely as the brushes would still wear due to the rotation of the commutator and with no current flowing they would act like a very, very fine emery paper. The carbon dust would also be deposited in the slots between the commutator segments causing a short circuit between the commutator segments.

[rodent279]

4 minutes ago, Tankerman said:

 

That is quite likely as the brushes would still wear due to the rotation of the commutator and with no current flowing they would act like a very, very fine emery paper. The carbon dust would also be deposited in the slots between the commutator segments causing a short circuit between the commutator segments.

Why not simply remove the brushes then?

[45125]

17 minutes ago, Tankerman said:

 

That is quite likely as the brushes would still wear due to the rotation of the commutator and with no current flowing they would act like a very, very fine emery paper. The carbon dust would also be deposited in the slots between the commutator segments causing a short circuit between the commutator segments.

The main problem with the surrogate DVTs was the oil carryover in the exhaust system, the commutator glazing was a secondary issue. It would have been easy to lift the brushes to stop the glazing of the commutators but as the power cars occasionally had to provide power they were left in. Brush traction motor brush would have to be removed as they cannot be lifted like other brushes, and they can be a right **** to fit as they use tensator brush springs these had a nasty habit of flying out.

As to the three horns (from memory) 43014 and 43123 had them, this was from the trials on the West Coast when they were true DVTs as the power unit were u/s and had 1000v ETH and M/As fitted to charge the batteries.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by 45125