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10 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

........ There is no way the locomotive would have been moved very far in the condition shewn as the approximately 17 tons that the bogies supports would mostly be transferred onto the leading and driving set of coupled wheels pushing them over permitted axle loadings. ........

........ but if the boiler was empty the axle loads would have been significantly reduced !

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But not by enough! There is a substantial weight in those two cylinders, but the real problem would be a lack of side control, allowing the leading end to sway beyond the loading gauge.

 

Following the Harrow accident in 1952, 6202 was moved to Crewe on her own wheels - or some of them - at dead slow speed. A replacement bogie, probably from 6257, which was in Crewe Works at the time, was fitted under the front end. At the trailing end, the trailing truck was badly damaged when the bolsters on the hind drag box were pushed forward, so a replacement truck could not be fitted. 6257's tender, in primer, was sent to Harrow and attached to 6202's frames to provide some lateral stability during the journey.

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1 hour ago, LMS2968 said:

..... but the real problem would be a lack of side control, allowing the leading end to sway beyond the loading gauge. .....

..... though anything ( i.e. a brake van ) coupled to the leading end of the loco and screwed up tightly would have restrained that sufficiently.

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2 hours ago, LMS2968 said:

But not by enough! There is a substantial weight in those two cylinders, but the real problem would be a lack of side control, allowing the leading end to sway beyond the loading gauge.

 

So move it out of hours as an Out of Gauge Load at low speed.  You'd need to check the axle weight was OK for the route.

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My time as a guard came soon after the end of steam, so the situation would not have arisen. Had I started a few years earlier and I found that as part of my train, I would have refused to take it. Moving at night as an OOG load would have required lot of working out of the potential overhang, a check of clearances along the route to make sure that no platforms could be fouled, not to mention bridges and tunnels. It would be a lot easier to borrow the bogie from another engine, sling it underneath and take it that way, even if it meant returning the bogie on arrival. Moving it in that condition would be too much trouble for a simple movement of a withdrawn engine, and such a movement would be contemplated in only the most exceptional circumstances.

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Whilst the use of class 58's on trains other than MGR wasn't common, one exception was the Ashbury's to Toton Speedlink service which usually brought a member of the class to Greater Manchester each day (SX).

 

However, the inclusion of a class 45 in the train wasn't common:

 

26/02/1985 - Hope, Derbyshire.

(John Turner on Flickr)

 

Edited by Steven B
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5 minutes ago, Steven B said:

Whilst the use of class 58's on trains other than MGR wasn't common, one exception was the Ashbury's to Toton Speedlink service which usually brought a member of the class to Greater Manchester each day (SX).

 

However, the inclusion of a class 45 in the train wasn't common:

 

26/02/1985 - Hope, Derbyshire.

(John Turner on Flickr)

 

 

Steven,

 

I thought 58s were used on the Ashburys Speedlink just whilst the 58s were short of work during the Miners' Strike?

 

Regards,

Simon

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My understanding was their use on the Ashbury's trains happened before and after the 1984/85 strike. There are photos on Flickr of the class on the train before March '84 and after '85 - enough to suggest (to me at least!) that it was a regular diagram for the class. There's no doubting the strike took the class to a much wider range of locations with a more diverse set of trains.

 

Steven B.

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4 hours ago, Steven B said:

Whilst the use of class 58's on trains other than MGR wasn't common, one exception was the Ashbury's to Toton Speedlink service which usually brought a member of the class to Greater Manchester each day (SX).

 

However, the inclusion of a class 45 in the train wasn't common:

 

26/02/1985 - Hope, Derbyshire.

(John Turner on Flickr)

 

 

Perhaps the 45 failed in the Manchester area and this was the easiest way to get it "home" to Toton for repairs.

Edited by brushman47544
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20 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

........ but if the boiler was empty the axle loads would have been significantly reduced !

Hi Whickham,

 

One thing you may not realise is that should a locomotive have a bogie or a truck removed as in the photograph then steel packings would be inserted between the tops of the axle boxes and the bump-stops of the hornguide or frame. The are two reasons for doing this, 1, so that the buffer heights would remain somewhere near where they ought to be, and 2, so the that the springs and anchor points would not be unduly loaded for too long a period of time resulting in fracture of either. The result of doing this is that most of the 17 tons would be transferred to the leading set of driving wheels giving a loading almost double of what is should be with that load being transferred to the frame through the steel packings rather than the spring gear. Should you ever see "P/K" chalked onto the end of an axle then it has been packed as described, this was done as reminder to the fitters to remove the packings after refitting the missing wheelsets.

 

The second thing is that the centre of mass of the boiler is pretty much over the driving wheels so draining out anything between seven to nine tons of water, not forgetting there will not be a tone of coal on the grate, might only reduce the loading on the driving and truck axles by approximately a ton and a half, with the bogie's loading being reasonably unaffected.

 

Gibbo.

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2 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

8F & Class 40 Bentham June 1968 by Gricer1946

 

A Class 40 double heads with an 8F near Bentham in June 1968.

 

That's a lovely 'train in the landscape' photo, worthy of being hung on the railway room wall. The Shell and BP logos on the tanks adds a good splash of colour to an otherwise fairly dull train of tank wagons. Thank you.

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22 hours ago, melmerby said:

The 8F found the 40 dead on the tracks and being a nice 8F decided to give it a ride home!:D

 

(yes I know it's in power double heading)

 

It does look as if it's doing most of the work!

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I've shared this one before but definitely ideal for this thread.  Got two of the same unit and thinking about renumbering?    

 

Apologies for the poor quality but it was quite amusing to see 150142 in two platforms!  Taken in the late 80's I think with my rubbish 110 camera.

150142.jpg

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5 minutes ago, LMS2968 said:

Should be stopped at the next box: Train Passed Without Tail Lamp!


Isn’t that what the the guy with the red flag essentially is.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

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25 minutes ago, Darius43 said:


Isn’t that what the the guy with the red flag essentially is.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

No, he's a man with a red flag stopping traffic on the road. The tail lamp goes on the last vehicle of the train to prove the train is complete and no part of it has been left behind. The two are not separable.

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