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Prototype for everything corner.


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10 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Doesn't make sense to actually provide the working elements of a turnout here, and I think it is most likely that the two roads are simply 'interlaced'.

 

That's the most likely, but it doesn't explain why the OS draughtsman drew a switch on the map?

 

It's possible an old worn-out switch was used as-is, rather than work out the non-standard chairing needed where the rails diverge.

 

Martin.

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2 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

 

That's the most likely, but it doesn't explain why the OS draughtsman drew a switch on the map?

 

Martin.

 

I think you are overestimating the level of detail and fidelity expected on this type of OS map.  The adjacent single and double slips are shown as simple diamond crossings on the map.  I don’t think this was a conspiracy on behalf of the draftsperson to confuse or mislead future generations.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

Edited by Darius43
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It's been discussed on here before, that OS maps are a pretty good (but not perfect) guide to where tracks are/were, but shouldn't be relied upon for details of switch and crossing work. 

 

In this case, I can't see any justification for including moving parts, which require maintenance, when the purpose of the traps will be served just as well without. 

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1 hour ago, Darius43 said:

I think you are overestimating the level of detail and fidelity expected on this type of OS map.  The adjacent single and double slips are shown as simple diamond crossings on the map.  I don’t think this was a conspiracy on behalf of the draftsperson to confuse or mislead future generations.

 

 

The scale of the map doesn't allow the full detail of slips to be shown. Note however that all of the plain turnouts have the switch toe positions marked, and all of the other buffer stops are shown as a single closed end.

 

 

39 minutes ago, PatB said:

It's been discussed on here before, that OS maps are a pretty good (but not perfect) guide to where tracks are/were, but shouldn't be relied upon for details of switch and crossing work. 

 

In this case, I can't see any justification for including moving parts, which require maintenance, when the purpose of the traps will be served just as well without. 

 

Go on then -- design the chairing for the locations where the side-by-side rails diverge. Compared with the simplicity of finding an old worn-out switch, leaving the stretcher bar free, and using that instead. A standard buffer stop can then be bolted to the switch front in the usual way.

 

It's years since I scanned the original photo from Jim Peden. I'm going to find it again and re-scan it at higher resolution. Based on previous experience I wouldn't be surprised to find that the OS was right after all.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited by martin_wynne
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You only have to design the chairing once (and how critical is getting it perfect in such a low speed application anyway?) whereas maintaining moving bits is an ongoing cost indefinitely. I'll be interested in the results of the higher res scan though. 

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11 minutes ago, PatB said:

You only have to design the chairing once (and how critical is getting it perfect in such a low speed application anyway?) whereas maintaining moving bits is an ongoing cost indefinitely. I'll be interested in the results of the higher res scan though. 

 

One of the tracks is a dead-end to a trap, so in theory it is never used. The switch would always be used only for the depot head shunt -- borne out by the brighter colour of the rails. There is no maintenance needed to parts which never move.

 

On the other hand, the easy way to solve the chairing problem is to interlace ordinary sleepers for two separate tracks. I may be gone for a while finding the original photo. smile.gif

 

Martin.

Edited by martin_wynne
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4 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

 

One of the tracks is a dead-end to a trap, so in theory it is never used. The switch would always be used only for the depot head shunt -- borne out by the brighter colour of the rails. There is no maintenance needed to parts which never move.

 

On the other hand, the easy way to solve the chairing problem is to interlace ordinary sleepers for two separate tracks. I may be gone for a while finding the original photo. smile.gif

 

Martin.

Fair enough, but at the maximum magnification I can get of the original posted image, if there is a switch there, it looks to me as if it's set for the trap. It also looks as if what would be the right hand switch rail is chaired all the way to the buffer stop, which suggests a fixed rather than moveable component. There do appear to be a lot of sleepers present, but it's difficult to judge, given the foreshortening in the photo.

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2 hours ago, Darius43 said:

With respect to the Roe Lane Junction thread, here’s a photo from a different angle that may (or may not) provide enlightenment.

 

Roe Lane Junction

 

Cheers

 

Darius

It looks to me that the rails of the electrified track don't even get to the bufferstop and are just interlaced up to it.

The buffer appears to be fixed to the other track.

 

Edited by melmerby
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And now for some tractors...

 

If you've got a spare class 37 body (even Lima), chop it up and stick it in a car park. The remains of 37411, as seen yesterday at the Alexandra Hotel in Derby (which has a nice selection of real ales...dunno how I know that...)

 

IMG_1367PSs.jpg.4ab5f492eeb1f79cb4b06d0351909584.jpg

 

And who says you need DCC? The prototype runs without lights from time to time...

 

IMG_1313PSs.jpg.250457387c869f8203c5b66c95530ae0.jpg

 

No idea why considering the loco had just set off from Derby RTC.

 

Jack.

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22 hours ago, Metr0Land said:

Do you have lots of loco tenders lying around from various projects?  You could have a steam hauled weedkilling train.

 

4001624845_d1d8367825_z.jpgN class 31829 leaving Redhill for Tonbridge with a Weedkilling Train 21 July 1955 by Charlie Verrall, on Flickr

I saw a picture recently of an equivalent train in lancashire, with mostly white painted Stanier tenders. How late did these trains last using tenders, did they last into the late 1970’s/80’s ? Until the “new” trains came about ?

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42 minutes ago, Jack374 said:

The remains of 37411, as seen yesterday at the Alexandra Hotel in Derby (which has a nice selection of real ales...dunno how I know that...)

 

Cracking pub for the ale loving rail enthusiast (or Rail loving ale enthusiast :D:drink_mini:

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15 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

 

The scale of the map doesn't allow the full detail of slips to be shown. Note however that all of the plain turnouts have the switch toe positions marked, and all of the other buffer stops are shown as a single closed end.

 

 

 

Go on then -- design the chairing for the locations where the side-by-side rails diverge. Compared with the simplicity of finding an old worn-out switch, leaving the stretcher bar free, and using that instead. A standard buffer stop can then be bolted to the switch front in the usual way.

 

It's years since I scanned the original photo from Jim Peden. I'm going to find it again and re-scan it at higher resolution. Based on previous experience I wouldn't be surprised to find that the OS was right after all.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Just to add to the possibilities, if you look at the next large scale OS map of the area (1:1,250 in 1964), it only shows one bar across the tracks.

(NLS don't seem to do this map, but it can be seen on the Old Maps website, here: https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/335324/417534/13/101329)

I've attached an extract below, so you can see the difference.

Roe Lane Jcn 1964.jpg

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4 hours ago, Jack374 said:

And one more...I hope this entrance to a warehouse at Tunstead Quarry in the Peak District was never used...

 

IMG_1279.JPG.f2f42f882ed282826ec23d746c075b0f.JPG

 

Jack.

 

If I'm thinking of the correct place your pic was taken, it looks like the shunter on the right of this pic is stood in the same place, but I've no idea if the trackwork was the same !

The buildings appear to have been altered quite a bit too.

 

Cheers,

Phil.

Scan_20190929 (3).jpg

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4 hours ago, Phil Mc said:

 

If I'm thinking of the correct place your pic was taken, it looks like the shunter on the right of this pic is stood in the same place...

 

Yeah that’s the spot...it’s disconnected from the network now I think and hasn’t been used for a good while by the looks of it...not surprising really!

 

Jack.

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18 hours ago, Jack374 said:

who says you need DCC? The prototype runs without lights from time to time...

 

 

IMG_1313PSs.jpg.250457387c869f8203c5b66c95530ae0.jpg

 

No idea why considering the loco had just set off from Derby RTC.

 

Jack.


coming off the RTC is no assurance of it being right, I once left there with 37421 and forgot to put my lights on, drove past the place again, picked up a route conductor at Leicester and got all the way to Clapham town via the MML and the north london line before another driver reported it! 

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On 29/09/2019 at 11:59, Jack374 said:

And one more...I hope this entrance to a warehouse at Tunstead Quarry in the Peak District was never used...

 

IMG_1279.JPG.f2f42f882ed282826ec23d746c075b0f.JPG

 

Jack.

I know someone (well, two people actually) who lay track like that .......

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On 27/09/2019 at 03:58, martin_wynne said:
On 27/09/2019 at 03:58, martin_wynne said 

Here's another Templot corruption -- 1 buffer stop for 2 tracks:

© National Library of Scotland

Here's a link to the full map: https://maps.nls.uk/view/126518903#zoom=4&lat=6551&lon=9998&layers=BT
cheers,
Martin.

 

And here is another unusual trap point which I saw whilst working at the other junction triangle near Southport, on the Southport to Liverpool line.  It can be  seen on the same map linked in Martin's

 

1675025255_SouthportCP-1.JPG.fbdf4cd7358837a20a8d4a2a33c9339b.JPGost above.

 

1692788076_SouthportCP-2.JPG.39200e6da46afd75b5b2083d85c02129.JPG

Edited by Jaggzuk
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8 hours ago, Jaggzuk said:

 

And here is another unusual trap point which I saw whilst working at the other junction triangle near Southport, on the Southport to Liverpool line.  It can be  seen on the same map linked in Martin's

 

ost above.

 

1692788076_SouthportCP-2.JPG.39200e6da46afd75b5b2083d85c02129.JPG


That looks like a double slip with one route removed.

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