RMweb Premium 3rd Rail Exile Posted February 18, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2018 The level crossing isn't the only access to any properties. Am I the only person who finds this whole situation utterly absurd and depressing? For HS2 we can bulldoze great swathes of property on the approaches to Euston, for Heathrow we can contemplate demolishing a whole village, but in rural Berkshire we have to pussyfoot around when a glance at Google Earth reveals that there is plenty of room to build a new road bridge and its approach roads in the village, but a few front gardens and bits of fields will be lost! Minor pedantic point - that hasn't been Berkshire since 1974 - it's part of South Oxfordshire... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D854_Tiger Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 The level crossing isn't the only access to any properties. Am I the only person who finds this whole situation utterly absurd and depressing? For HS2 we can bulldoze great swathes of property on the approaches to Euston, for Heathrow we can contemplate demolishing a whole village, but in rural Berkshire we have to pussyfoot around when a glance at Google Earth reveals that there is plenty of room to build a new road bridge and its approach roads in the village, but a few front gardens and bits of fields will be lost! My immediate thought was to close one of the level crossings (the nearest one to the listed over bridge), provide a replacement footbridge for those on foot and bung a height restriction on the other level crossing then whenever the removal van needs access they will just have to take the long way round. That seemed perfectly possible from my viewing of Google maps and, if it isn't, how hard would it have been to provide alternative road access over what appears to be open fields. Then the reason that was my immediate thought is because that's exactly what they did near to me at three locations for the WCML upgrade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 The level crossing isn't the only access to any properties. Am I the only person who finds this whole situation utterly absurd and depressing? For HS2 we can bulldoze great swathes of property on the approaches to Euston, for Heathrow we can contemplate demolishing a whole village, but in rural Berkshire we have to pussyfoot around when a glance at Google Earth reveals that there is plenty of room to build a new road bridge and its approach roads in the village, but a few front gardens and bits of fields will be lost! Legally, it is, as what appears to be a continuous road alongside the railway is not a public highway and runs into private land. But, the principle of turning that road into a proper highway is still valid, and one I suggested a while back in this thread. (So was the principle of coasting through if the train speed was greater than the 60mph limit.) Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D854_Tiger Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Legally, it is, as what appears to be a continuous road alongside the railway is not a public highway and runs into private land. But, the principle of turning that road into a proper highway is still valid, and one I suggested a while back in this thread. (So was the principle of coasting through if the train speed was greater than the 60mph limit.) Jim The trouble with dropping the pantograph is that it's just another thing to go wrong. I know they are automating this but, at the end of the day, it's an intensively used high spend railway and I can't imagine they would ever stretch to accepting this kind of impediment for a motorway or, for that matter, the nearby A34 dual carriageway (600 yards away), which appears to have just been ploughed through with no attempt to go easy on the concrete. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted February 18, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) My immediate thought was to close one of the level crossings (the nearest one to the listed over bridge), provide a replacement footbridge for those on foot and bung a height restriction on the other level crossing then whenever the removal van needs access they will just have to take the long way round. That's all very well until someone says that his lorry will fit under the wire without touching it, and goes and drives it across the crossing in spite of the height restriction. Cue bright flashover arc, loud bang, and one main-line railway up for swannee for the next week or so. Edited February 18, 2018 by Budgie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arun Sharma Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 That's all very well until someone says that his lorry will fit under the wire without touching it, and goes and drives it across the crossing in spite of the height restriction. Cue bright flashover arc, loud bang, and one main-line railway up for swannee for the next week or so. and a Darwin award for the driver [and his mate] of course. I'm afraid that a physical height barrier before the crossing rather than any form of warning notice would be the minimum requirement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 18, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2018 Minor pedantic point - that hasn't been Berkshire since 1974 - it's part of South Oxfordshire... Oh no it isn't. As a quick look at the relevant parts of the 'net will confirm it actually comes under the Vale if the White Horse District Council - the boundary between that DC and South Oxfordshire DC is on the western fringe of Didcot. My immediate thought was to close one of the level crossings (the nearest one to the listed over bridge), provide a replacement footbridge for those on foot and bung a height restriction on the other level crossing then whenever the removal van needs access they will just have to take the long way round. That seemed perfectly possible from my viewing of Google maps and, if it isn't, how hard would it have been to provide alternative road access over what appears to be open fields. Then the reason that was my immediate thought is because that's exactly what they did near to me at three locations for the WCML upgrade. I understand that Causeway Crossing is regularly used by horse riders (they were among those who objected to the removal of the Crossing Keeper not so long back). The trouble with dropping the pantograph is that it's just another thing to go wrong. I know they are automating this but, at the end of the day, it's an intensively used high spend railway and I can't imagine they would ever stretch to accepting this kind of impediment for a motorway or, for that matter, the nearby A34 dual carriageway (600 yards away), which appears to have just been ploughed through with no attempt to go easy on the concrete. I think the difference with the (relatively new) stretch of A34 in that area was that it meant the old A34 through Steventon was by-passed and reduced in status to the B4017 thus the good burghers of Steventon were overjoyed because it meant that their long campaign for a by-pass was at last a reality and they didn't care one little bit about the numerous acres of farmland which vanished forever under the by-pass. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 3rd Rail Exile Posted February 18, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2018 The Stationmaster is, of course, totally correct. I was being deliberately vague by omitting the "DC" as I wasn't sure where the boundary ran! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted February 18, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2018 As GWR has chosen to spam my Facebook feed with an advert suggesting the Famous Five have found more space and comfort aboard the class 387 electric units I have chosen to leave a reply. Stating in a few short but well-chosen words exactly what I think of the ironing boards which have been fitted to those units where the seats should be. Let's see if I get any sort of response. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 It would be interesting to work out how much use of the Steventon level crossings will be possible, once there's an increase in the frequency of trains passing this location. An extra 2 tph to Bristol alone = potentially up to 4 more periods per hour when the barriers will be down. How many minutes will that take up? I'm only pondering the prospect, but I can envision a situation where increased use of the line, results in road and pedestrian access breing restricted to a handful of brief periods each hour. Say, for example, 2 minutes every 15 minutes...or less ???? The locals will be crying out for a new bridge if that happens. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 ....Am I the only person who finds this whole situation utterly absurd and depressing? For HS2 we can bulldoze great swathes of property on the approaches to Euston, for Heathrow we can contemplate demolishing a whole village, but in rural Berkshire we have to pussyfoot around when a glance at Google Earth reveals that there is plenty of room to build a new road bridge and its approach roads in the village, but a few front gardens and bits of fields will be lost! No you're not the only one. The situation at Steventon is completely ridiculous. If NR are adopting the plan outlined above (60 mph speed restriction), it simply demonstrates to me that a**e covering and ineptitude rule the day, whether the fault for that lies with NR, or the DafT, or both. Yours sincerely Mr. Grumpy Neasden . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D854_Tiger Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 It would be interesting to work out how much use of the Steventon level crossings will be possible, once there's an increase in the frequency of trains passing this location. An extra 2 tph to Bristol alone = potentially up to 4 more periods per hour when the barriers will be down. How many minutes will that take up? I'm only pondering the prospect, but I can envision a situation where increased use of the line, results in road and pedestrian access breing restricted to a handful of brief periods each hour. Say, for example, 2 minutes every 15 minutes...or less ???? The locals will be crying out for a new bridge if that happens. . Good point. The plan I read, admittedly back when the new trains were being ordered, was a doubling of frequency to both Bristol and Cardiff (every 15 minutes) and doubling of frequency to Cheltenham. I make that nine extra trains per hour over the crossing on top of the nine currently operating, a grand total of eighteen trains an hour plus approx one freight per hour as well. Nineteen trains an hour is virtually one every three minutes, which means they may as well close the crossing anyway. Has anyone told the locals yet. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 They have already doubled the frequency of trains to Bristol and South Wales. The capacity problem has been solved by coupling them together in pairs. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium HillsideDepot Posted February 18, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2018 It would be interesting to work out how much use of the Steventon level crossings will be possible, once there's an increase in the frequency of trains passing this location. An extra 2 tph to Bristol alone = potentially up to 4 more periods per hour when the barriers will be down. How many minutes will that take up? I'm only pondering the prospect, but I can envision a situation where increased use of the line, results in road and pedestrian access breing restricted to a handful of brief periods each hour. Say, for example, 2 minutes every 15 minutes...or less ???? The locals will be crying out for a new bridge if that happens.. And if each of those trains is only travelling at 60mph but triggering a crossing set up for 125mph running.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 and a Darwin award for the driver [and his mate] of course. I'm afraid that a physical height barrier before the crossing rather than any form of warning notice would be the minimum requirement. If they stay in the cab they wont be electrocuted, it is only when you complete a circuit from a live part to earth that you get zapped. If they were to step out of the cab holding onto the truck they would be zapped but if they jumped clear they would be fine, not that I would like to test it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted February 18, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2018 That might work for 650v dc, but the lorry would probably be on fire anyway, and the high voltages could jump gaps. Keep well away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arun Sharma Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) Posted Today, 17:34 3rd Rail Exile, on 18 Feb 2018 - 12:53, said: Minor pedantic point - that hasn't been Berkshire since 1974 - it's part of South Oxfordshire... Oh no it isn't. As a quick look at the relevant parts of the 'net will confirm it actually comes under the Vale if the White Horse District Council - the boundary between that DC and South Oxfordshire DC is on the western fringe of Didcot. Another minor pedantic point - but isn't the Vale of White Horse still within the County of Oxford? - albeit the southern part. As a council tax payer in the Vale of White Horse, some of my dosh goes to Oxfordshire County Council - not to Berkshire [sadly]. I think all 3rd Rail Exile was saying was that Steventon is in the southern part of the county of Oxford and has been since 1974. Edited February 19, 2018 by ted675 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 They have already doubled the frequency of trains to Bristol and South Wales. The capacity problem has been solved by coupling them together in pairs. Geoff Endacott Henceforth the Southern Region will be operated exclusively by 2-car units, running in 5- and 6-unit formations. What a brilliant idea! Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D854_Tiger Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 They have already doubled the frequency of trains to Bristol and South Wales. The capacity problem has been solved by coupling them together in pairs. Geoff Endacott Just wait till they couple two nine car sets together because they don't like being out alone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 That might work for 650v dc, but the lorry would probably be on fire anyway, and the high voltages could jump gaps. Keep well away. Why would electricity jump from a nicely earthed truck body to a badly earthed human? While it will jump from something nicely insulated to get to earth (whether that be to an item or a person), because electricity is inherently lazy it will always take the easiest route which would be a nice conductive cab rather than a poorly conducting human body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 They have already doubled the frequency of trains to Bristol and South Wales. The capacity problem has been solved by coupling them together in pairs. Geoff Endacott Uh, how is running the same number of longer trains increasing the frequency? two short trains an hour is the same frequency as two longer trains an hour, to increase the frequency they would need to run more trains, ask Cross Country about Operation Priceless back in 2000, Oh actually lets not! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 19, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 19, 2018 Posted Today, 17:34 3rd Rail Exile, on 18 Feb 2018 - 12:53, said: Oh no it isn't. As a quick look at the relevant parts of the 'net will confirm it actually comes under the Vale if the White Horse District Council - the boundary between that DC and South Oxfordshire DC is on the western fringe of Didcot. Another minor pedantic point - but isn't the Vale of White Horse still within the County of Oxford? - albeit the southern part. As a council tax payer in the Vale of White Horse, some of my dosh goes to Oxfordshire County Council - not to Berkshire [sadly]. I think all 3rd Rail Exile was saying was that Steventon is in the southern part of the county of Oxford and has been since 1974. Being horribly pedantic, and without wishing to labour the point (too much) he said 'South Oxfordshire' (capitalised) which is the adjacent District Council to the east. Vale of The White Horse is, like South Oxfordshire, one of the District Councils within Oxfordshire - and i would agree that the County Council - whatever it does, or doesn't do - doesn't deliver much for our money. Back to electrification. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 19, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 19, 2018 And if each of those trains is only travelling at 60mph but triggering a crossing set up for 125mph running.... Not as such as both the crossings are CCTV but presumably the operating Instructions will need revision although I wonder if they currently differentiate between freight trains and passenger trains worked by HSTs? SAnd will there still be any HSTs using the route by the time the electrification is commissioned? Unless the Instructions are revised the length of time the barriers are down for an approaching passenger train is likely to increase by at least half a minute I would think. An interesting comparison is Thatcham Crossing where I get the impression the same Instruction applies to all Classes of train as the barriers can be down for an awful long time before a freight appears. The thing to remember about the future at Steventon is not just the additional trains but their passing times in relation to each other and that can have a considerable impact on the length of time over which the barriers are down (as happens already at Thatcham where there are far less trains but the barriers are sometimes down for as long as 10 minutes because of the way trains are approaching the crossing). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1059 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 The level crossing isn't the only access to any properties. Am I the only person who finds this whole situation utterly absurd and depressing? For HS2 we can bulldoze great swathes of property on the approaches to Euston, for Heathrow we can contemplate demolishing a whole village, but in rural Berkshire we have to pussyfoot around when a glance at Google Earth reveals that there is plenty of room to build a new road bridge and its approach roads in the village, but a few front gardens and bits of fields will be lost! I wish they would build a new road and bridge and close the crossings - everybody wins, even the locals who wouldn't have to sit at the crossings for ages waiting for them to open. However, there doesn't seem much chance of ANY new roads being built in South Oxfordshire to soak up all the extra traffic being generated by the never ending, virtually uncontrolled hosing development - at least, not in my lifertime Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Coryton Posted February 19, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19, 2018 Uh, how is running the same number of longer trains increasing the frequency? two short trains an hour is the same frequency as two longer trains an hour, to increase the frequency they would need to run more trains, ask Cross Country about Operation Priceless back in 2000, Oh actually lets not! It might have been a joke. It reminds me of the (alleged?) comment by a BR spokesman some years ago when asked about the effect of competition from a frequent coach service between Oxford and London. Something along the lines of: "We run 6 coaches an hour to London too...it's just that they're all joined together" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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