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1 hour ago, M Wright said:

 Why is it that all the suburban trains in both directions  have pantographs up (ALL diesel MUs having sensibly replaced) but I only saw ONE class 800 /802 train out of seven passing on up and down lines using its pantograph to collect power from the overhead.  What secret explains this reluctance to use the overhead?

 

Believe it has been discussed occasionally on though Class 800 thread, so might be better searching or asking there.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/94506-class-800-updates/

 

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5 hours ago, M Wright said:

Hi, with the arrival of our first grandchild a lot of time over the last few days has been spent in Sainsbury's Cafe in Didcot regaining calm before returning to renew the roles of modern grandparents.  Having finished the paper I started counting the trains passing through.  Why is it that all the suburban trains in both directions  have pantographs up (ALL diesel MUs having sensibly replaced) but I only saw ONE class 800 /802 train out of seven passing on up and down lines using its pantograph to collect power from the overhead.  What secret explains this reluctance to use the overhead?

 

IETs in both directions pan up/down at Moreton Cutting, the only exception is trains in the Up direction (which stop at Didcot) can pan up once they are stopped in the platform at Didcot.

 

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9 hours ago, Banger Blue said:

 

IETs in both directions pan up/down at Moreton Cutting, the only exception is trains in the Up direction (which stop at Didcot) can pan up once they are stopped in the platform at Didcot.

 

 

Not Anymore!

 

Simon

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22 hours ago, M Wright said:

ALL diesel MUs having sensibly replaced)

 

Technically, they haven't replaced all the DMUs on the Western Route, you still get the Class 16x's working Oxford / Banbury services.

 

Simon

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5 hours ago, St. Simon said:

 

Technically, they haven't replaced all the DMUs on the Western Route, you still get the Class 16x's working Oxford / Banbury services.

 

Simon

And, for the moment, class 16x standing in for some of the 387s that have been appropriated for HEx services (although I have yet to see any of them in service). A6-car 16x is not a good substitute for an 8-car 387, especially at peak times.

 

Jim

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Hi,

 

As I teased earlier, as of yesterday Class 80x units to and from Swindon are running through Steventon Bridge in Electric and at Speed rather than having to convert to Diesel.

 

The differential EMU 60 over 125 speed restriction has now been lifted to 110mph for all trains and the power change-over site to the west of Steventon has been removed. 

 

The fate of the bridge in the future is still to be officially decided.

 

Simon

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1 hour ago, St. Simon said:

The fate of the bridge in the future is still to be officially decided.

 

Simon

Should have whacked it with the jib of an RRV when the masts were put in! :lol:

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The overheads went up at Iver on the Up Goods which then became the Up Iver Loop (UIL). East of the River Colne it was relaid along with W Drayton Loop (WDL). Adjacent to the old W Drayton yard a new facing and trailing crossover with the UR went in. West of the Colne the track is Bullhead rail on concrete/wooden sleepers.

The UIL is shown  OOU in the Sectional Appendix from at least 08/12/17.

From the west end to just east of Iver station, track panels have now been lifted and the bed levelled.

DSC01817 (2).JPG

DSC01813 (2).JPG

DSC01811 (2).JPG

DSC01807 (2).JPG

DSC01808 (2).JPG

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Quite a bit of the track on the Up Goods Loop through Iver was distinctly elderly, with bullhead on early concrete sleepers. Renewal was probably overdue.

 

Jim

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Just been checking up on route maps down to Cardiff in connection with the new signalling and bidirectional capabilities at Bristol Parkway.

A lengthy note on the Cardiff page reads as follows:

 

"Due to the limit of electrification for the diversionary routes towards Ninian Park, zero balises have been provided at the ends of Cardiff Central platforms. Therefore all 80x moves West of the station, including those to Line A and Brickyard Siding MUST be in Diesel Mode.

 

Line A and Brickyard Siding reversal moves may perform manual power changeover to electric while static on Line A/Brickyard Siding and return to the station in electric mode.

 

<snip>

 

Class 387 are authorised to operate in electric mode to Cardiff Central* including Line A and Brickyard Siding reversing locations. Drivers must not accept any other route."

 

*not sure how else they'd get there...!

 

Does make you wonder why they bothered electrifying to Brickyard if GWR are only going to use it in one direction, and then from the other perspective if 387s are allowed to use it why not 800s?

 

Similar situation at Newbury where all down 800s pan down before Newbury Racecourse, but a terminating 800 from London (ie not continuing to Bedwyn, there's a couple in the peak) has to pan down in the same place, even though it never goes off the wires.

And then there's wiring the Through roads at both locations! No wonder the project is so over budget. What would have happened if the 800s were pure electrics as initially speced I wonder.

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You do begin to wonder if joined up thinking and an appreciation of railway operating are deemed to be forbidden territory when it comes to the GW electrification.

 

Jim

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So do I get this right?

 

When electrification is complete, IETs will be on the electric all the way from Padd to Cardiff, but for those turning round at Cardiff, they will be on diesel power to go to (an already electrified siding) to reverse.

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12 minutes ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

So do I get this right?

 

When electrification is complete, IETs will be on the electric all the way from Padd to Cardiff, but for those turning round at Cardiff, they will be on diesel power to go to (an already electrified siding) to reverse.

Schrödinger's electric railway.

 

Both electrified and not electrified at the same time.

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Hi,

 

As the person that designed the power change-over at both Cardiff and Newbury (as well as all the other locations where it happens on the Western and Wales), could I point out that the situations quoted are there for lots of reasons that have sound engineering and operational judgement behind them by operators and engineers who have many years of experience on the railway, almost all stretching well into the BR period.

 

Simon

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So a pure electric unit, which will become completely stranded if it leaves the wires, is allowed to enter the "danger area" whilst an IET which can switch to diesel and mobilise itself again is not permitted to enter the "danger area".

 

Hmmm, I'd like to read the Risk Assessments which reached that conclusion, especially when the EMU will be an occasional visitor so either traction or route will be relatively unfamiliar to the driver concerned whereas an IET, which performs the move every hour Monday to Friday with drivers well versed in both route and traction, get extra safe guards. 

 

It could only happen on the railway... 

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20 minutes ago, HillsideDepot said:

So a pure electric unit, which will become completely stranded if it leaves the wires, is allowed to enter the "danger area" whilst an IET which can switch to diesel and mobilise itself again is not permitted to enter the "danger area".

 

Hmmm, I'd like to read the Risk Assessments which reached that conclusion, especially when the EMU will be an occasional visitor so either traction or route will be relatively unfamiliar to the driver concerned whereas an IET, which performs the move every hour Monday to Friday with drivers well versed in both route and traction, get extra safe guards. 

 

It could only happen on the railway... 

 

As I've said, this was all taken into consideration when the design decisions were made, and there are reasons which have been argued about and analysed until the cows come home that have produced the scenario that is being implemented.

 

Whilst it isn't the perfect solution, I'll grant you that, it is the best solution available that best meets the objectives of all those concerned.

 

Simon

Edited by St. Simon
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15 hours ago, SouthernMafia said:

 

"Due to the limit of electrification for the diversionary routes towards Ninian Park, zero balises have been provided at the ends of Cardiff Central platforms.

 

What is meant by "zero balises"? Does that mean an absence of balises, or is it a type of balise?

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10 hours ago, St. Simon said:

 

As I've said, this was all taken into consideration when the design decisions were made, and there are reasons which have been argued about and analysed until the cows come home that have produced the scenario that is being implemented.

 

Whilst it isn't the perfect solution, I'll grant you that, it is the best solution available that best meets the objectives of all those concerned.

 

Simon

But analysed by whom - signal engineers, railway operators or electrification engineers?  Or all three?

 

No disrespect to any of them, but the railway these days is home to a lot of silo thinking.

 

Jim

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18 minutes ago, jim.snowdon said:

But analysed by whom - signal engineers, railway operators or electrification engineers?  Or all three?

 

No disrespect to any of them, but the railway these days is home to a lot of silo thinking.

 

Jim

 

All of them, in the same room at the same time and all talking to each other.

 

Simon

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How much further west would the knitting need to extend west before it could be used by all electrics in Newbury station?

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, rodent279 said:

 

What is meant by "zero balises"? Does that mean an absence of balises, or is it a type of balise?

 

It is type of balise, sort of...

 

In the Automatic Power Change-Over world, there are two 'types' of balises, a 'trigger' balise and a 'zero' balise. Both are exactly the same piece of equipment and are acted upon by the train in the same way, the difference being is that a 'zero' balise has data that gives the train an immediate pan down (and convert to diesel) message, where as the 'trigger' balises gives a message to the train that gives the driver more warning time.

 

Simon

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10 minutes ago, St. Simon said:

 

All of them, in the same room at the same time and all talking to each other.

 

Simon

That only makes the final design solution look even stranger, but so be it. 

 

Jim

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4 minutes ago, jim.snowdon said:

That only makes the final design solution look even stranger, but so be it. 

 

Jim

 

At risk of repeating myself, whilst it isn't the perfect solution, I'll grant you that, it is the best solution available that best meets the objectives of all those concerned.

 

Simon

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30 minutes ago, St. Simon said:

 

At risk of repeating myself, whilst it isn't the perfect solution, I'll grant you that, it is the best solution available that best meets the objectives of all those concerned.

 

Simon

Not trying to get at you, realising that you can't give us details here, but it does raise the question of whether those objectives were sensible.  

 

Can a power changeover balise be conditional on which route is set, or does it enforce diesel mode for every train passing over it regardless of where it is going?  

 

Is it yet known whether the London trains will be timetabled to reverse in Brickyard Siding or turn back in the platforms?  If they normally turn back in the platforms then use of diesel on the occasional time they need to go to the siding might not be such an issue.  

Edited by Edwin_m

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