RMweb Gold Market65 Posted July 30, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 30, 2014 Hi. Yes, I think that seems to be the case recently. It will probably be Friday. I think the Test Train Mk1's were a Friday arrival, or was it the Porthole coaches. Anyway, next week it will be interesting to see how the green livery 'helps' or not the window problems. Also, from the reviews, the lining looks too thick. Something seems wrong about it. All the best, Market65. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Well, the day I have been waiting for finally arrived when I collected my Bachmann blue/grey 101 from my local model shop this afternoon. Having recovered from the shock of the reality of the recent 20% price increase, I couldn't wait to get her on the layout to see how she looks "in the flesh" after all the speculation, and having read all the rather gentle magazine reviews. And I was obviously anxious to compare it with my old Lima ones. So here we go. Please excuse the rather harsh photography - too much of a hurry to get them on-line! The front end appearance is a lot better on the Bachmann and the side windows don't look bad from normal viewing distance. Just one thing leaps out at me - "Load evenly distributed..." has been printed on the passenger end instead of the guards end on one side of E51217. Can't understand how that wasn't picked up on any of the magazine reviews! Anyway, see what you think: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DropTheTap Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Well, the day I have been waiting for finally arrived when I collected my Bachmann blue/grey 101 from my local model shop this afternoon. Having recovered from the shock of the reality of the recent 20% price increase, I couldn't wait to get her on the layout to see how she looks "in the flesh" after all the speculation, and having read all the rather gentle magazine reviews. And I was obviously anxious to compare it with my old Lima ones. So here we go. Please excuse the rather harsh photography - too much of a hurry to get them on-line! The front end appearance is a lot better on the Bachmann and the side windows don't look bad from normal viewing distance. Just one thing leaps out at me - "Load evenly distributed..." has been printed on the passenger end instead of the guards end on one side of E51217. Can't understand how that wasn't picked up on any of the magazine reviews! Anyway, see what you think: Thanks for sharing! Shows to me that the old Lima tooling isn't that bad at all. Serves to demonstrate the thick Bachmann window surrounds rather harshly. Strangely, the window offsets are not that apparent when comparing the two; much more visible on the earlier Bachmann model vs. prototype shots. Now don't get me started on the price increases... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Just received this weeks Hattons newsletter and they have advised that they are expecting delivery of the green liveried 101s this week. Must be within the next couple of days. They are showing on Bachmann's site as 'in stock' Email from Hattonstoday that my pre-order green 101 has been despatched :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I would add that I am pleased with the new Bachmann unit - more than I thought I would be. Of course it runs superbly. So much so that I will buy another ( I like to run them in multiple) but will probably wait a while in the hope they might start getting discounted a bit more. Yes, it does highlight that the Lima moulding was good. I'll be hanging on to my Lima NSE and Regional Railways units as their black windscreen surrounds help disguise the slightly oval and long apertures of the three windows. Plus the fact I reckon it'll be ages before Bachmann produce those liveries - unless they get retailer commissions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(S) Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Just one thing leaps out at me - "Load evenly distributed..." has been printed on the passenger end instead of the guards end on one side of E51217. Can't understand how that wasn't picked up on any of the magazine reviews! This was mentioned in the Rail Express Modeller review. Excellent pictures and I'll be happy to add a blue/grey one to the fleet. Far superior than the Lima model to my eyes and I'd definitely be replacing mine if I had any. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted July 31, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2014 Just an observation (I know there has been some debate on the window positioning on the Bachmann release) - I note that in the picture with the Lima version on top of the Bachmann one... On the Bachmann one, the windows are closer to the top of the grey band, but the blue band between the grey band on the roof is quite large. On the Lima one the windows don't appear quite so close to the top of the grey band - but this seems to be because the aforementioned blue band is smaller than the Bachmann one. One for our DMMU experts, which one is more correct? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Market65 Posted July 31, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2014 Hi. I wonder if anyone could measure one of the preserved 101's to see just what the dimensions of the windows are. I used to have some, but cannot currently find them, and live too far from a suitable line. Once measured, it should be a simple job to see just where Bachmann have slipped-up on those windows. I'm not sure about the various published drawings - just how accurate are they? Not very, is I think the answer. All the best, Market65. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Once measured, it should be a simple job to see just where Bachmann have slipped-up on those windows. See my post on page 6 for a comparison based on photographs: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78974-decorated-samples-of-class-101/?p=1327087 To summarise the problems in order of importance (my personal opinion!): 1) Over-thick window surrounds contribute to making the windows look too small. 2) The door drop lights appear to align with the bottom of the window surrounds rather than the window. 3) Windows possibly positioned slightly too high on the body and are not quite deep enough (draw your own conclusions from the photos in my post). The photos that cravensdmufan posted are really helpful. The third shot shows up another possible error which is that the curve between the body side and cab front doesn't extend high enough. On the prototype it extends up beyond the cantrail. If you look at the Lima one, they have got this right. It results in the yellow livery curving round to meet the rainstrip (very obvious in this photo and prototype photos such as: https://www.flickr.com/photos/tutenkhamunsleeping/5669100570). On the Bachmann one, the windows are closer to the top of the grey band, but the blue band between the grey band on the roof is quite large. On the Lima one the windows don't appear quite so close to the top of the grey band - but this seems to be because the aforementioned blue band is smaller than the Bachmann one. One for our DMMU experts, which one is more correct? As has been explained earlier in the topic, there were livery variations resulting in the grey band being sometimes higher or lower on the bodyside. So, it depends which specific set you are interested in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I spent a happy couple of hours last night running the new unit in. Superb performance throughout. As far as looks are concerned from normal viewing distances it's a close call, but IMO the front ends definitely swing it in favour of the Bachmann model. Here are a couple more shots plus one of one of my earlier attempts of trying to improve the Lima front. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Those Lima/Hornby side windows are rendered so much more finely.Much as I like the front end on the new Bachmann one, I think I will buy a cheap Bachmann 108 from the likes of Hattons and put my Lima blue unit bodies on the 108 underframes and mechanisms. The 108 can go on the Lima frames and perhaps be rendered as an unpowered unit for multiple operation. That will cost me approximately half of the cost of the new Bachmann 101.Thanks to all those who have posted pics of the new units. They have helped me to decide on whether to buy one or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DropTheTap Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Far superior than the Lima model to my eyes and I'd definitely be replacing mine if I had any. Quote of the day!! Any DCC modeller able to let me know how many decoders are needed for conversion, one per car or one per unit? How many pins on the socket? (Bachmann can't seem to decide upon which to standardise.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DropTheTap Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I spent a happy couple of hours last night running the new unit in. Superb performance throughout. As far as looks are concerned from normal viewing distances it's a close call, but IMO the front ends definitely swing it in favour of the Bachmann model. Here are a couple more shots plus one of one of my earlier attempts of trying to improve the Lima front. That Lima front end is definitely hampered by yellow colored plastic rather than yellow paint. Looks much better after you painted it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 This is proving a tough one for me. The shots above nudge me in the direction of Lima/Hornby for a more convincing Blue-Grey profile. The cab front as new goes Bachmann's way, but the last picture in post 362 redresses the balance after a little work and a basic yellow respray (which is the norm for me anyway). I only need blue and green units for the Transition era, so that negates the window issue which is only emphasized in the Blue-Grey. The running qualities of the recent Hornby units are perfectly adequate - so it will all come down to the underframe detail. Nightmare. But justify the expense of replacing my existing fleet for that alone? On this occasion, and just now - I don't think so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Hi, Bachmann Class 101 instructions state one 21 pin decoder per 2 car unit. The two cars are joined by a connector same as their Class 150. Though I found this quite tight and awkward to fit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DropTheTap Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 This is proving a tough one for me. The shots above nudge me in the direction of Lima/Hornby for a more convincing Blue-Grey profile. The cab front as new goes Bachmann's way, but the last picture in post 362 redresses the balance after a little work and a basic yellow respray (which is the norm for me anyway). I only need blue and green units for the Transition era, so that negates the window issue which is only emphasized in the Blue-Grey. The running qualities of the recent Hornby units are perfectly adequate - so it will all come down to the underframe detail. Nightmare. But justify the expense of replacing my existing fleet for that alone? On this occasion, and just now - I don't think so. Ordinarily I would simply hit the "agree" button but your dilemma (dilemmas, dilemmi, dilemmae?) are the same as my own, although the window issues irk me. And at risk of raising this again, Bachmann's recent price hikes have swayed me in the direction of not touching one. Some detail work on that Lima front end, removal of the too- modern roof pod and it would look like a good 'un! I even have my eye out on eBay for an old Lima version as I have a 108 chassis that I'm quite willing to knock around... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45125 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 The Limby under frame is pants. The class 108 undeframe bears no resemblance to a 101 other than that engines and radiators are in the same place and most of the other bits are not visually the same. From what I have seen on the Bachmann 101 under frame equipment it is more or less spot on, other than that power lacks the right equipment for the green and blue versions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Here's my two'pennorth. basically following the same line as DropTheTap and Chard. 1. Got one each of the previous 3 DMU types in green. They all run very well, all look the part with paintwork and detail, the interior lighting is great and looks good when running "at night". In fact they got me into trying this, very satisfying. They are very useful running services on the layout. They all got good write ups on RMweb. 2. Therefore getting a green 101 would be an automatic choice. Despite the price, but let's leave that to one side for now. 3. There is a lot of suggestion on here that the sides aren't as accurate as they could be (window position etc). 4. cravensdmufan and Master65 have posted pics of their work on Lima 101s to improve them and they look very good (although the Bachmann cab windows are probably more accurate). I've resprayed the cabs of Lima 117 (and a 121 I once made from 2 117 bodies) and yes that does improve them. 5. This encouraged me to go as far as bidding for Lima 101s on e-bay, nearly got one! 6. Looking at Master65s one, weathering looks like it brings out the detail and perhaps I'd be better off trying with an elderly Lima one than on a new £127 model! (And/or using a Bachmann chassis from a cheaper model). But but... I'll have to see what the green Bachmann ones actually look like I guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Further to my post #354. I successfully removed the offending "Load evenly distributed..." printing from the passenger end of E51217. Tiny drop of IPA alcohol on a cotton bud onto the printing, then a very light scratch with the fingernail - came off like a dream. (edited to inset word alcohol!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 But but... I'll have to see what the green Bachmann ones actually look like I guess. Here you go, the green 101 fresh from the box Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DropTheTap Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 The Limby under frame is pants. The class 108 undeframe bears no resemblance to a 101 other than that engines and radiators are in the same place and most of the other bits are not visually the same. From what I have seen on the Bachmann 101 under frame equipment it is more or less spot on, other than that power lacks the right equipment for the green and blue versions. Thanks for your technical summation of the older chassis. I realize that the 108 underframe requires significant alteration, although the excellent conversion earlier in this thread has proven it's not impossible. Here's where I'm confused: how can the Bachmann version be "more or less spot on" if the power (car?) "lacks the right equipment" for two of the three livery versions depicted...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Here you go, the green 101 fresh from the box image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg Thanks for that, excellent pics. Actually, does look rather good. And it's got the separate gutters over the doors. H'mm... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Green one looking good to me. Are you happy with it? Thanks for sharing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted August 2, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 2, 2014 Thanks for that, excellent pics. Actually, does look rather good. And it's got the separate gutters over the doors. H'mm... Entirely agree with your comments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45125 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Thanks for your technical summation of the older chassis. I realize that the 108 underframe requires significant alteration, although the excellent conversion earlier in this thread has proven it's not impossible. Here's where I'm confused: how can the Bachmann version be "more or less spot on" if the power (car?) "lacks the right equipment" for two of the three livery versions depicted...? The blue power car version should have a rectifier regulator unit fitted to it, it has the later mod of a small box for the regulators, it also has the wrong exhaust system. The green version has the same box, where it should have a much larger box (tonum panel) and dynamo next too it, it also has the wrong exhaust system. The first vehicles fitted with two marker lights and route indicator were 50210 and 56062. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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