Sound fade out of Legomanbiffo projects

[dasatcopthorne]

Hi Ian.

 

I spoke to you at Warley yesterday re the possibility of getting the master volume to 'fade' up and down if switched on or off whilst already moving a loco. Such as going on and off scene.

 

I though I would post this here so that others could use the answer themselves.

 

Have you managed to locate the CV for this effect and if so how does it work, please? Any special instructions.

 

By the way, love the new 'detonator' effect.

 

 

Cheers

 

Dave Smith

[legomanbiffo]

Dave,

 

When I get a minute I will look into how this is altered. I've got a lot of sound workload at the moment though so if anyone else wants to dive in and answer meantime, please feel free.

 

Bif

[Nigelcliffe]

Well,  as Bif is busy,  this is how I'd tackle it in the absence of maker information.

 

There is a sound fader feature on a LokSound decoder (CV133, page 73 in my manual).   The Sound Fader is within Control Block N (page 56).   That needs to be controlled using a "mapping line" (page 52) where one sets the Conditional Block (approximates to function keys on handset) and the Logic Outputs.

 

Working on the assumption that Bif allocates features to Mapping Lines starting at the top and working down,  I'd put my own changes at the bottom and work up.   So, I'll pick mapping line 40 (bottom of page 52).   Before making any write change to any CV I'd read it back, and if not zero, stop and investigate the other CV's on the mapping line.  

 

First the Fader.   Assume half volume, so 

write (Program) CV133=63,

as 63 is about halfway from 0 to 127.   A different value can be set later.  

Control Block N (page 56) will end up with value 8 to operate the fader (more on this below).

 

Next, decide function key to be used to control things...   Lets pick F16 (random choice on my part).    Looking at the conditional block (Page 53), the value for F16 being on is set in Conditional Block E, taking value of 16.  

So, reading across Mapping Line 40 on Page 52 looking for the CV's we need, there is  Index CV32=4 (really important!), Conditional Block E is CV373 and Control Block N is CV381.

 

Finally Programming Time. 

 

First the Index CV's (page 51).  This is really important, get this wrong and you're changing something else !!  

Write   CV31 = 16    and   CV32 = 4.    Read both back to check the values. 

Now, read CV373 (expecting zero)  and CV381 (again expecting zero).   If not zero, then read the rest of the CV's in Mapping Line 40 and work out what it controls before making a decision on changing anything on the mapping line.   

Once happy with the mapping line,  set CV373 = 16   and CV381 = 8.  

It should now be working,  F16 will halve the volume level.   If working, then adjust CV133 to give the "fader" volume you actually require.  

Set the Index CV's back to zero (not essential, but seems sensible practise to me),  CV31=0, CV 32= 4

 

 

If keeping paper records of what you did, the Index CV's are as important as the actual CV's.  Without the index values, the CV's above 256 could be controlling something completely different !

 

 

-  Nigel

[pipparooba]

ive just been updating my loco list on jrmi and remember about this post and thought as all of my sounds are ians id give a least one loco a try and its great fun having to fade buttom on just finishes the sound files of just nicely thx nigel for sharing your knowledge  only 9 more to go 

 

 

cheers ian 

[tractor_37260]

Although perhaps not relevant to the OP -  the SWD (Multi Start) Loksound 4 Class 37 has a fade out option on F1. The loco has to be moving for it to work, switching F1 OFF fades out the sound to silence, switching F1 back ON (the sound then fades back up) provided it's still moving. Once the loco has stopped, switching F1 back on starts the normal start up sequence.

HTH

[kevpeo]

Now that would be a useful feature to add to v4 projects. I do find them to be a bit 'severe' in use, as they don't even finish playing the slot that's running like the v3.5 did. kev.

[pipparooba]

hi kev

 

thats because they are acting like a accelerator on a car you have instant response to the sound slots. but like you said the v3.5 have to finish the slot before it will change.  .the v4 is far better to driving/use . .

 

 

 

ian  

[tractor_37260]

Evening all

 

The following will prove useful to a number of requests above for setting up the "sound fade out" logical option on the Loksound 4.  I used a Lokprogrammer (V4.4.9) to set this up

 

As the OP was about setting this up on Bif's decoders - and as he normally uses F0-F20  the following settings will put the sound fade out option on F21 so as not to clash etc.

 

So to use F21 - firstly read CV133 - it will likely be 128 - change this "initially" to 0

 

Set CV 31 = 16

Set CV 32 =   3

 

Then set CV429 = 8 

 

Reset CV 31 back to 0

          CV 32 back to 0

            

F21 is best set to "latching" mode

 

With the loco running/moving, running or stopped,pressing F21 ON will fade out the sound to silence, switching F21 OFF the sounds will then fade back up again. Ideal for tunnels/cuttings and going into fiddle yards etc. If the loco is stopped with F21 on, once switched off the loco will go through the start up sequence, provided F1 is also still on.

If the loco is stopped with F21 left ON  the sound will not restart, provided F1 is left ON, assuming that CV133 was pre-set to 0 = silence, on moving off the loco will be silent until F21 is switched OFF the sound will then fade back up to the original level.

 

It is also possible to adjust how much the volume fades up/down, by using CV133  -  when set to 0 the sound will fade out to silence. By setting CV133 to around 43 = the sound will fade down to around 1/3rd of the full volume etc adjust to suit the requirements. CV133 volume range 0-128  - 128 being full volume , 0 being silence.

 

Although the above example puts the option on F21 - by using different CV's to the above, it can be put on any F key  -  although I did find a problem trying to add it to F1 ?   -  why was that then Bif  - if your reading this ?

 

HTH

Ken

[legomanbiffo]

Ken,

 

What happened when you tried to put it on F1?

 

I wish I could find time to do some work on this. I need to retire :-) Mind you, anyone you speak to who's retired seems to have no more time than they did when they went to work.

 

Bif

[Lochnagar]

If you could add this as a feature it'd be particularly useful on my layout! 

 

Let me know Bif 

[dasatcopthorne]

Evening all

 

The following will prove useful to a number of requests above for setting up the "sound fade out" logical option on the Loksound 4.  I used a Lokprogrammer (V4.4.9) to set this up

 

As the OP was about setting this up on Bif's decoders - and as he normally uses F0-F20  the following settings will put the sound fade out option on F21 so as not to clash etc.

 

So to use F21 - firstly read CV133 - it will likely be 128 - change this "initially" to 0

 

Set CV 31 = 16

Set CV 32 =   3

 

Then set CV429 = 8 

 

Reset CV 32 back to 0

F21 is best set to "latching" 

 

 

 

With the loco running/moving, pressing F21 ON will fade out the sound to silence, switching F21 OFF the sounds will then fade back up again. Ideal for tunnels/cuttings and going into fiddle yards etc. If the loco is stopped with F21 on, once switched off the loco will go through the start up sequence, provided F1 is also still on.

 

It is also possible to adjust how much the volume fades up/down, by using CV133  -  when set to 0 the sound will fade out to silence. By setting CV133 to around 43 = the sound will fade down to around 1/3rd of the full volume etc adjust to suit the requirements.

 

Although the above example puts the option on F21 - by using different CV's to the above, it can be put on any F key  -  although I did find a problem trying to add it to F1 ?   -  why was that then Bif  - if your reading this ?

 

HTH

Ken

 

 

Hi guys.

 

As the original poster, I have to say that this method would not be much use to me.

 

I personally need it to be on F1.

 

The reason being is that certainly on my NCE throttle, getting to any F key above 13 takes too many key presses.

 

It might seem trivial to some but when you are operating at an exhibition, fiddling with unnecessary key presses is not what I want.

 

One of the reason for standardising on Bif sounds in the first place was/is that all the important sounds are on F keys 1 - 9. This helps on a club layout as new members learn the 'trade'.

 

Mind you. It helps that the sounds and the programming are brilliant.

 

I'll wait for the fade out to be available on F1.

 

Dave

 

 

Ps. Anyone want to book a layout for their show? Www.csmrc.co.uk

[tractor_37260]

Ken,

 

What happened when you tried to put it on F1?

 

I wish I could find time to do some work on this. I need to retire :-) Mind you, anyone you speak to who's retired seems to have no more time than they did when they went to work.

 

Bif

Hi Bif

         I tried again today to put this option on F1 - with the same results:

With this set, when you press F1 to get the sound started,  the volume then appears to be whatever % has been pre-set in CV133. Once the loco is moving, if you press F1 OFF the sound cuts out to silence, pressing it back ON the sound comes back on where it stopped (at the same volume). I also noticed if this option was also left set for F21 - it stopped working once the F1 option settings were added ?

 

The SWD (Multi start) 37 has this sound fade out on F1 and it works OK ? The instructions mention it's on F1/F5  - F5 is the "Triple pump/priming) can't see why that has any effect ?  F1 on it's own on/off fades the sound up/down when running.   However when put on the lokprogrammer, there appears to be no "sound fade out" logical option set up for any F key ? including F1   I'm sure, once you get the time, you'll find an answer to that puzzle also 

Regards

Ken

EDIT: Found earlier when using the SWD (Multi start) version, when the loco is moving if F1 is switched off, the sound then fades to silence and if the loco is then stopped, pressing F1 back ON  - the loco goes through the normal start up sequence. The sound will only fade up and down IF the loco is kept moving.  In this respect it's different - (see my edited post above) to my findings when adding it to F21 ?

[pipparooba]

Hi guys.

 

As the original poster, I have to say that this method would not be much use to me.

 

I personally need it to be on F1.

 

The reason being is that certainly on my NCE throttle, getting to any F key above 13 takes too many key presses.

 

It might seem trivial to some but when you are operating at an exhibition, fiddling with unnecessary key presses is not what I want.

 

One of the reason for standardising on Bif sounds in the first place was/is that all the important sounds are on F keys 1 - 9. This helps on a club layout as new members learn the 'trade'.

 

Mind you. It helps that the sounds and the programming are brilliant.

 

I'll wait for the fade out to be available on F1.

 

Dave

 

 

Ps. Anyone want to book a layout for their show? Www.csmrc.co.uk

i have it on f16 on a nce i dont mind it its only 2 buttons away.  i did how ever look at the 4v manual at the weekend to try make sense of how it works and to tell the truth im still scratching my head but will carry on trying to work it out  it would be nice to have it on the front row of the power cab 

[pipparooba]

Well,  as Bif is busy,  this is how I'd tackle it in the absence of maker information.

 

There is a sound fader feature on a LokSound decoder (CV133, page 73 in my manual).   The Sound Fader is within Control Block N (page 56).   That needs to be controlled using a "mapping line" (page 52) where one sets the Conditional Block (approximates to function keys on handset) and the Logic Outputs.

 

Working on the assumption that Bif allocates features to Mapping Lines starting at the top and working down,  I'd put my own changes at the bottom and work up.   So, I'll pick mapping line 40 (bottom of page 52).   Before making any write change to any CV I'd read it back, and if not zero, stop and investigate the other CV's on the mapping line.  

 

First the Fader.   Assume half volume, so 

write (Program) CV133=63,

as 63 is about halfway from 0 to 127.   A different value can be set later.  

Control Block N (page 56) will end up with value 8 to operate the fader (more on this below).

 

Next, decide function key to be used to control things...   Lets pick F16 (random choice on my part).    Looking at the conditional block (Page 53), the value for F16 being on is set in Conditional Block E, taking value of 16.  

So, reading across Mapping Line 40 on Page 52 looking for the CV's we need, there is  Index CV32=4 (really important!), Conditional Block E is CV373 and Control Block N is CV381.

 

Finally Programming Time. 

 

First the Index CV's (page 51).  This is really important, get this wrong and you're changing something else !!  

Write   CV31 = 16    and   CV32 = 4.    Read both back to check the values. 

Now, read CV373 (expecting zero)  and CV381 (again expecting zero).   If not zero, then read the rest of the CV's in Mapping Line 40 and work out what it controls before making a decision on changing anything on the mapping line.   

Once happy with the mapping line,  set CV373 = 16   and CV381 = 8.  

It should now be working,  F16 will halve the volume level.   If working, then adjust CV133 to give the "fader" volume you actually require.  

Set the Index CV's back to zero (not essential, but seems sensible practise to me),  CV31=0, CV 32= 4

 

 

If keeping paper records of what you did, the Index CV's are as important as the actual CV's.  Without the index values, the CV's above 256 could be controlling something completely different !

 

 

-  Nigel

nigel a few of my chips have had cv 32 = 4 but ive just come to done another tonight and its is it ok to carry on the same way with the cv bein  cv 32 = 3 

 

cheers ian 

 

ps it to is one of biffs chips 

[tractor_37260]

nigel a few of my chips have had cv 32 = 4 but ive just come to done another tonight and its is it ok to carry on the same way with the cv bein  cv 32 = 3 

 

cheers ian 

 

ps it to is one of biffs chips 

 

Ian

Re above setting the Index CV's back to zero I'll think you will find Nigel made a small typo with CV32=4 - it should be =0  so both CV 31+32 = 0 when re-setting to tidy up etc.   I'd also tread very carefully with what your changing if your not sure what values should be in the index CV's - you may well end up changing other settings without being aware. 

 

Placing the fade function on a lower key to suit your NCE would mean shifting/swapping a sound function from one of the lower keys to higher key to free up the lower one for the "sound fader" option, use of a Lokprogrammer is probably the best way to achieve this on a Lok 4

 

HTH

Ken

[pipparooba]

hi ken  i think ive saved all my loco setting on decoder pro 3 as and when i get then i have also a programmer the down side is i dont have the sound file ...

 

so last night i change the cv but left the cv 32 =3 what happened next is that the sound doesn't fade but when the motor is at a stand still the engine sound revs up to around half speed but when speed steps are applied the motor does not move you have to turn the f16 button off only then will the motor move off then when f16 is switched on then train is moving nothing happened until the motor is stopped and sound goes to idle does the reving sound come on again but you still cant make the motor move again until you turn the f16 button off again then engine goes to idle then the  motor will again when applied  

 

 

cheers ian 

[tractor_37260]

hi ken  i think ive saved all my loco setting on decoder pro 3 as and when i get then i have also a programmer the down side is i dont have the sound file ...

 

so last night i change the cv but left the cv 32 =3 what happened next is that the sound doesn't fade but when the motor is at a stand still the engine sound revs up to around half speed but when speed steps are applied the motor does not move you have to turn the f16 button off only then will the motor move off then when f16 is switched on then train is moving nothing happened until the motor is stopped and sound goes to idle does the reving sound come on again but you still cant make the motor move again until you turn the f16 button off again then engine goes to idle then the  motor will again when applied  

 

 

cheers ian 

Hi Ian

         Going by the above, it would appear you may have changed some CV's unintentionally - ie perhaps the index CV's were not set to the correct values at the time.  Your best bet, provided it's available on Bif's decoders ? is to reset it back to as supplied, and then start again.   But do check with Bif BEFORE attempting a decoder re-set. 

Even although a user manual is not presently avail, with a basic understanding of the (V4) Lokprogrammer, changes to Loksound 4 decoders is lot easier than trying to work it out from the complicated Loksound 4 user manual, which also has a number of errors and omissions etc

 

HTH

Ken

[pipparooba]

Hi ken when I got home earlier I went and got my use interface cracked up thee old lap top and had a look at the map function page on the jmri programme turns out that doin what I did enables the notch button on the function map page on the decorder so I just turned it off. Job done

 

Cheers Ian

[Nigelcliffe]

I think the latest test JMRI release (3.7.2) has usable CV programming of LokSound V4's.    It carries the usual warning about "test" software, be aware that you are testing it and there may be bugs !

 

This latest release also has an "import CVs from Lokprogrammer file" capability, which means one can faff with CVs using the Lokprogrammer software (free from ESU, you don't have to buy the LokProgrammer hardware), then import the resulting CVs into JMRI and know where you're starting. 
The intended purpose is to import CVs from sound projects where the CV structure is known, either those sound projects which can be downloaded from ESU directly, or where the sound project writer has chosen to make their CV structure public (no reason for a sound project writer to not to do this, it's readable from the decoder by anyone with a programming track and is not asking the sound project writer to release their sound source files).

 

- Nigel