Porth Dinllaen in 0

[Simond]

Probably the last link to the Greater Windowledge Railway

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80443-great-windowledge-railway/?p=2057821

 

Some pix might be of interest / helpful...

 

It's gone, finished. See page 2 for the dismantling photos & some electrickery.

 

Best

Simon

Edited November 10, 2015 by Simond

[ChrisN]

Simon,

Finally arrived!  I do not know how I missed this thread, I read GWR ages ago.  It is not a quick read as it if full of content, although I am not sure I remember half of it or could do even a quarter of it.

 

Just a question about your King.  The Cambrian was notorious for being lightly laid and anything heavier than a Wickham trolley was thought of as not really allowed.  In your world have they re-laid the track as well as extending the line?  Or are you going via Afon Wen?

[Simond]

Hi Chris & welcome. I'm glad you've found it interesting, and hopefully enjoyable.

 

Well, if PD were, at IKB's suggestion, an alternative to Holyhead for the Irish Mails (and last chance cutter to catch a transatlantic steamer), and bearing in mind that Stephenson built the second Menai bridge (for the LNWR?) simply to make Holyhead a main-line connected port, I'm sure one of the routes across Snowdonia might have been rebuilt to a standard that Kings and Castles could be carried.

 

The potential routes are interesting, and I don't know which Brunel favoured.

 

Welshpool, Newport, Talerddig, Machynlleth & Friog, across the Barmouth bridge, and onwards to Porthmadog, Pwllheli & PD, Lots of work at Friog & the Barmouth bridge (but it's still not as hard as the Menai!)

 

or perhaps

 

Via Llanfair Caereinion, Dinas Mawddwy & Dolgellau. Might be a bit steep in parts.

 

or even perhaps

 

Via Bala, Trawsfynydd & Penryndeudraeth. Similarly.

 

I haven't tried to do the gradient profiles (I remember learning this in primary school geography lessons a very, very long time ago!) but it might be a fun project. I have the 1:25k OS maps...

 

Best

Simon

[ChrisN]

Hi Chris & welcome. I'm glad you've found it interesting, and hopefully enjoyable.

 

Well, if PD were, at IKB's suggestion, an alternative to Holyhead for the Irish Mails (and last chance cutter to catch a transatlantic steamer), and bearing in mind that Stephenson built the second Menai bridge (for the LNWR?) simply to make Holyhead a main-line connected port, I'm sure one of the routes across Snowdonia might have been rebuilt to a standard that Kings and Castles could be carried.

 

The potential routes are interesting, and I don't know which Brunel favoured.

 

Welshpool, Newport, Talerddig, Machynlleth & Friog, across the Barmouth bridge, and onwards to Porthmadog, Pwllheli & PD, Lots of work at Friog & the Barmouth bridge (but it's still not as hard as the Menai!)

 

or perhaps

 

Via Llanfair Caereinion, Dinas Mawddwy & Dolgellau. Might be a bit steep in parts.

 

or even perhaps

 

Via Bala, Trawsfynydd & Penryndeudraeth. Similarly.

 

I haven't tried to do the gradient profiles (I remember learning this in primary school geography lessons a very, very long time ago!) but it might be a fun project. I have the 1:25k OS maps...

 

Best

Simon

 

Simon,

Yes makes sense now.  The first route is known, as it follows the Cambrian route and is not too bad, the second follows the road that I always used going to Porthmadog, and has some very interesting gradients, the last one is most likely although it would probably go down to Dolgellau.

[Simond]

Any thoughts or help on this would be welcome

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/105427-aberystwyth-loco-shed/

 

Cheers

Simon

[Donw]

I seem to remember the original proposals mentioning the route going via Worcester. I don't think the GWR had absorbed the West Midland at that time. From what I know of IKB he would have possibly headed for Shrewsbury and then either followed the A5 or attacked the Berwyns from the Tanat Valley. In fact wasn't the original S&M the Shrewsbury Potteries and North Wales or something like that and was the sort of last rattles of IKBs ideas. As it was Stevenson got to Holyhead and settled the issue. IKB and RS were good friends despite having such different ideas. Anyway if you take the Tanat valley option from the top of the Berwyns it is across to Bala then down the Vale of Ffestiniog  to Portmadoc. The Gradients might have made Tallerdig seem like a gentle stroll.

However if you assume some land and works started at the Porth Dinallen end which were later linked to Carnarvon and Portmadoc  when the direct route failed to materialise that is somewhat believable in my view. Of course the question then would be GWR or LNWR at the grouping. If it became part of the Cambrian first then GWR would be more likely.

Don

[Simond]

Don,

 

It was certainly a consideration to reach Porth Dinllaen by way of Caernarfon, however I do not think that this was the plan. Wikipedia says "During the summer of 1836 Vignoles surveyed four routes through Mid Wales in an attempt to avoid steep gradients, with mileages to London varying between 244 and 267 miles." (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ansbaradigeidfran/Sandbox2)

 

This compares with the current route to Holyhead via Crewe, at 263m 56ch.

 

I'm sticking with a mid-Wales route thence up to Porthmadog, Pwllheli & on to Porth Dinllaen. I will try to find out more about Vignoles' routes when I have time.

 

Best

Simon

[Donw]

I never suggested the plan was to go from Caernarfon. I only suggested that as a possible later option. The problem is there is rather a large lump of mountains in Snowdonia. The normal route is to look for river valleys there is not an easy route from the Severn or Wye rivers to get to Porth Dinallen  Which is why the Cambrian went round the coast. The earlier proposals may well have gone the same way.  The Cambrian had Tallerdig between the Severn and the Dyfi. Worcester Leominster then Llandrindod Wells and the wye might have made a more southerly route.

Are you assuming the Cambrian route to Porthmadog  was used?

Don

[Simond]

Hi Don

 

Sorry if I misinterpreted your post - there was talk about a northerly route, but the tunnelling (all hard rock) would have been extremely expensive, and the Menai crossing (which would not have been cheap) presumably made for a simpler option.

 

I guess I haven't given the route once past Porthmadog a huge amount of thought - I'd assumed something mid-Wales, and the precise route only becomes important when planning timetables - for which those of Pwllheli should serve as a basis. I've played around with an excel spreadsheet but haven't got very far with it. I suspect the earthworks to get down from Bala might have been dramatic, but not impossible.

 

I still fancy Talerddig with double headed Kings! Silly though, they'd never have done such a thing. Anyway, it seems reasonable that the GW could have built a main line to Porth Dinllaen if they'd convinced the government, and if so, we'd have had big locos on the coast line. My story and I'm sticking to it!!

 

Best

Simon

[ChrisN]

Hi Don

 

Sorry if I misinterpreted your post - there was talk about a northerly route, but the tunnelling (all hard rock) would have been extremely expensive, and the Menai crossing (which would not have been cheap) presumably made for a simpler option.

 

I guess I haven't given the route once past Porthmadog a huge amount of thought - I'd assumed something mid-Wales, and the precise route only becomes important when planning timetables - for which those of Pwllheli should serve as a basis. I've played around with an excel spreadsheet but haven't got very far with it. I suspect the earthworks to get down from Bala might have been dramatic, but not impossible.

 

I still fancy Talerddig with double headed Kings! Silly though, they'd never have done such a thing. Anyway, it seems reasonable that the GW could have built a main line to Porth Dinllaen if they'd convinced the government, and if so, we'd have had big locos on the coast line. My story and I'm sticking to it!!

 

Best

Simon

 

Simon,

I would think Talerddig was a possible route, shorter than Bala, Dolgelley.

 

Would you need to double head Kings?  Would a King Just need a banker over the hump?

[Donw]

The GWR didn't like banking passenger trains as a rule it much prefer to put the loco on the front there is a complicated set of rules which goes where. I think Mike (Stationmaster) posted the rules regarding Kings in the Nod to Brent thread but some time ago which could be quite a few pages back. I think it was preferable to have a bogie engine at the front so mostly the assisting loco was behind the king. Incidently I suspect double headed Kings would have had a pretty restricted route availability.

Don  

[Simond]

I'm sure you're right, and I don't have two Kings anyway, and my Castle doesn't yet have sound, but I can imagine...

 

[Simond]

I haven't posted much on here for a while, lots of reasons, but I have been busy. The CAD for my loco shed is well advanced, and etching and laser cutting will hopefully commence in January, as will the new boards for the new layout. (I also bought two loco kits and a Wistow bus kit at Reading, and await a Minerva Puckett, and I've still got lots of kits in the cupboard, but least said...).

 

(I'm sorry, I do know how to spell "Peckett" but the "improved" smellchecquer in my iPad won't let me correct its "correction").

 

I finally cleared a space on the workbench today and did a little real modelling for a change. Two of the toplight coaches already had underframes, I built the third, and today managed to sort the truss rods for the fourth. Perhaps "rods" is misleading, they are actually angle (folded etch) with cast queen posts.

 

I found on #3 that the bogie fouled the diagonals, and much grunting and odious language was required before they were cut back to a length & form that looked OK, and didn't prevent bogie swing or cause short circuits (remember the bogies are live & opposite polarities, to feed the lighting)

 

For #4, I was a little more prepared:

 

I trimmed the trusses at the ends, and milled away a triangular piece at each end, so they sit slightly higher. "Milled" implies a milling machine - I used a tungsten carbide cutter in my Proxxon mini drill, hand-held, with caution - the cutters will mince through the resin, or indeed your anatomy, with no hesitation at all. Once I had removed most of the necessary plastic, I cleaned up with a coarse 4-square file.

 

I opened out the slots for the queen posts to fit with a rather finer needle file, soldered them and then used the last of my 5-minute epoxy to glue the ends in place. Once set, a quick clean up of any excess epoxy, and a scrub to remove the flux from the queen post ends.

 

I've now got to work out how to insinuate the brake gear hangers around the trussing, but at least the vehicle can run!

 

Over length trussing - given that the kits were second hand I don't know whether these are the wrong etches or they need "adjustment" by design.

 

Trimmed trusses, piece of wood to support whilst soldering.

 

Trimmed trusses & milled out clearance on inside of the solebar. I should have taken a "before" & "after" here, so I'll describe the "before" as a rectangular recess, about half the height of the solebar, into which the truss should locate. It's now got a triangular extension towards the middle of the coach.

 

Ditto

 

Cutters - tungsten carbide. Very sharp, very hard, very brittle. eBay. Pretty damn cheap too (about £13 for 8 if memory serves). If using them in anger, safety goggles recommended.

 

Proxxon & cutter

 

Clearance at one end...

 

And t'other! They pretty much line up with the rivets on the solebars, and any discrepancy will take some spotting once the foot boards are in place.

 

Season's Greetings to all!

Simon

[N15class]

The under frames are coming on nicely.

 

The tungsten bits look useful, on my New Years shopping list.

[Simond]

All the very best for the New Year - may it be happy, healthy and prosperous for us all!

 

Now, having helped with the washing up, goodnight!

Simon

[Simond]

Mornin' all. I hope you all have the bright & crisp morning we have, it looks lovely out there, so MrsD & our guests have gone for a stroll to enjoy it. Leaving me & one of Mr Waterman's Toplights and a new pack of epoxy rapid in peace

 

Whilst the first bit's polymerising, I was browsing as one does, and refound this rather interesting website. If you haven't had a look, I do believe it's worth the time.

 

http://www.009.cd2.com/members/how_to/introduction.htm

 

Best

Simon

[Simond]

Little bit of progress - under frame #4 pretty much done, but I don't seem to have any water traps for the steam heat pipes - if I can find a drawing, I'll have a go at making them, otherwise a call to Laurie, when I know what else is missing. There aren't any on the other coaches either.

 

I've got the already-made corridor connectors in an acetone bath at the moment, hopefully can save them, but they look pretty grim. I have enough etchings to make up three sets, so not the end of the world - the outer ones on the rake will be retracted anyway.

 

Looks like I bought the wrong buffers from Graham at NMRS during the Reading show - zero points to me - but have been in touch and have ordered the right parts. Great service - happy customer!

 

There is an annoyance - having fitted the trusses, I discovered that they were flat bars, not angle, on the E85 vehicles... They're staying angle for now.

 

Foot boards went on OK. Quite pleased with them - thin PCB strip soldered to wire inserted in the solebars. I think the PCB probably came with the kits, but I don't have enough for the other vehicles, only one and a half...

 

 

 

 

 

oh yes, the lights work, too

 

Best

Simon

[2ManySpams]

Some very nice modelling there Simon.

[Simond]

Thanks for the positive feedback, always welcome!!!

 

Family are having a lie-in, I have a "window of opportunity" for an hour or so!  It'll all get more exciting later as it's my son's 18th birthday today.  Significant milestone.  Concern is that whilst I know I was born in 1958, my mind still thinks I'm about 20...

 

Looking at the photos, I want to sort out the painting of the droplights and bolections, despite use of the (el cheapo) bowpen, it's still a bit hit-and-miss. I'm not that convinced about the colour of them either.  Should be darker I fear.    

 

I need to make a list of jobs to do on this one, and then see how it looks with the other three - but for starters;

 

Body

tidy up window apertures and fit window glazing (supplied precut with the kit)

transfers

door handles, grab rails

 

Ends

end grab rails

corridor connectors

 

Chassis

replace buffer heads (ordered NMRS)

steam heat and vac pipes

brake linkages

spray paint chassis black (needs the interior masking, and needs MUCH better weather than we have today)

 

Bogies

steps, (hoping there's a bit of etch in the box of bits)

brake safety loops

 

Light weathering to bring it all together to complete.

 

Any suggestions for things that need attention would be welcome, preferably before I finish...

 

I have installed some passengers.  They are pretty much invisible unless you peer through the windows.  I shall do the same on the others, but I will not spend much time or effort on ensuring they are "well dressed".  I have used Slaters' mainly.  There are some bulk packs of unpainted 1/48 passengers available on the bay of E - anyone tried them?  Similarly, I am not much convinced of the need to put pictures & mirors on the bulkheads, or fit luggage racks.

 

I'm coming to a conclusion regarding the JLTRT kits - they are comprehensive and complicated, and replicate a whole lot of detail, but so much is done for you that the price is probably justified.  Probably just as well, as the Mallard/Blacksmith ones aren't available any more.  The roofs are particularly good, and obviously very evident on a model.   I'm enjoying the build/rebuild, anyway, which I guess is the whole point! 

 

If I were building one from new, I would definitely paint and assemble the sides completely in the flat before assembling them to the vehicle, whereas the previous owner of these kits had part built them as "boxes" before I got them.  This is definitely more "fiddly".  I might even permanently fit the ends to the chassis and devise a way of attaching the sides with screws or pins.  The roof would adequately lock them in place.

 

best

Simon

[chaz]

"the JLTRT kits.....replicate a whole lot of detail, but so much is done for you that the price is probably justified."

 

The price issue is one that modellers must decide for themselves. Having just bought three vans from the range I will say that for me there is no doubt that they are worth the money if only to avoid the usual problems of getting the corner joints fitted accurately and the occasional problem (with Slater's kits) of the plastic sides, ends and floor bowing. Some modellers might not like kits where "so much is done for you" and I would sympathise with that view but right now if I could have bought such quality RTR I would have done so. Think of the JLTRT approach as somewhere between a kit and a (high-quality) RTR and you have it about right.

 

Excellent modelling on the coach, Sir!

 

Chaz

[Simond]

Thank you Chris, Chaz!

 

Whilst you probably wouldn't guess from my present progress & enthusiasm, I tend to view coaches as a bit of a PITA, as they are large, fragile and complicated, and as such, take nigh on as much time & effort to build as a loco. But you need between 4 and 14* times as many of them...

 

I have set about the corridor connections. Update to follow in good time

 

Best

Simon

 

* I have an auto coach and a B set and have therefore covered lesser numbers. 14 on might be a challenge on any model railway to which I currently have access/running rights, and I wonder whether any of my locos could start such a train on the level, with the possible exception of my 52xx, which would normally not be the first choice for a crack express

[chaz]

It's long been accepted that coach kits can be as much work to put together as loco's and you certainly need far more of them......unless you model a small goods yard somewhere in Norf Lunnun...

[Simond]

Mmm, good point...

[Simond]

First corridor connector

 

The parts are delicate, and I did have two pins (they're 0.45 x 10mm) where I soldered both sides. I used kitchen foil to try to prevent this, in the past I've used marking blue, or wet tissue. I suspect the marking blue is better, need to go and find it, and probably add meths as it's probably like paint by now.

 

It was very fiddly to assemble, but now works fine. Doesn't sag, extends and swings very smoothly.

 

I have the JLTRT bellows to go in it, or I can use the card version as used on all my Blacksmith coaches. The end panels will be closed, as I use them as buffing faces to prevent the real buffers locking. The card acts as a kind-of spring, and I expect the rubber bellows would too, but I'm not sure, they seem quite stiff. Anybody know?

 

 

Best

Simon

 

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2016 by Simond

[Simond]

Funny how the blindingly obvious grabs you the day after... 

 

I intend to metal black the outboard end of the corridor connector as it will rub on its neighbour which will rub the paint off - but solder won't stick to metal black.  So I could black it before assembly - indeed, do the same to all the components, and simply clean the links where I do want solder to adhere.

 

I think the expression is "D'oh!" and I'm sure there is a "smack hand against forehead" emoticon somewhere.

 

best

Simon