Cambrian and GWR 0 Gauge layout -Revised Plans

[Donw]

Very nice Mike .

 

The only one like that I have got close to was the Downs Light Railway where I have had the pleasure of driving a train round. Wish my school had had a railway like that.

http://www.thedownsmalvern.org.uk/Downs-Light-Railway

 

Don

[The Stationmaster]

Very nice Mike .

 

The only one like that I have got close to was the Downs Light Railway where I have had the pleasure of driving a train round. Wish my school had had a railway like that.

http://www.thedownsmalvern.org.uk/Downs-Light-Railway

 

Don

 

The Spinney seem quite keen on getting my son and I involved as they claim to be short of Signalmen (that could be interpreted in several ways as it happens ) although it's an awkward drive to get there.  But it is nice railway although all i've seen are bit of it, I've never been round any of it on a train!  But several former 'big railway' folk who I know who who I worked with are involved so it could be fun - full block working as well which is nice.

[Donw]

The Spinney seem quite keen on getting my son and I involved as they claim to be short of Signalmen (that could be interpreted in several ways as it happens ) although it's an awkward drive to get there.  But it is nice railway although all i've seen are bit of it, I've never been round any of it on a train!  But several former 'big railway' folk who I know who who I worked with are involved so it could be fun - full block working as well which is nice.

 

The is something nice about a minature railway worked properly the inter station distances are normally short which means things happen frequently. I think it sounds great fun.

Don

[Donw]

There is still much to do before I can get on with the layout which is somewhat frustrating doing little or no modelling. However it suddenly occurred to me that the Cambrian West Box and the goods yard would be the part I would model if I didn't have room for more. So I thought I could start with the lever frame for the West Box and then buld a locking frame to go with it before moving on the make some of the signals. It wouldn't need a lot of space and would give me a head start on a area that often gets left till last when building a layout.

 

I have looked at serveral options the MSE lever frame, the Scalefour Lever frame, and the Brassmaster lever frame.  I worked out that if I didn't included a separate lever for the FPL I would need 15 levers. The MSE frame now sold by Wizard has 7 levers, whereas the S4 one has 5 levers. I have also heard good reports of the S4 frame from Jerry Clifford. The price too seem reasonable. I got three sets with microsswitches and turned lever tops for  £85.

 

This is the diagram I made of the Station and the locking tables

 

 

 

Wel they were described as locking table but actually seem to be what I have seen as table of the Lever Leads  which are those details you see on the levers the levers which have to be operated first before that lever can be operated. It does not show the other locks needed to avoid conflicting moves. So the next set is to prepare a proper locking table.Which I will post next time

 

Don

Edited July 17, 2018 by Donw

[St Enodoc]

 

There is still much to do before I can get on with the layout which is somewhat frustrating doing little or no modelling. However it suddenly occurred to me that the Cambrian West Box and the goods yard would be the part I would model if I didn't have room for more. So I thought I could start with the lever frame for the West Box and then buld a locking frame to go with it before moving on the make some of the signals. It wouldn't need a lot of space and would give me a head start on a area that often gets left till last when building a layout.

 

I have looked at serveral options the MSE lever frame, the Scalefour Lever frame, and the Brassmaster lever frame.  I worked out that if I didn't included a separate lever for the FPL I would need 15 levers. The MSE frame now sold by Wizard has 7 levers, whereas the S4 one has 5 levers. I have also heard good reports of the S4 frame from Jerry Clifford. The price too seem reasonable. I got three sets with microsswitches and turned lever tops for  £85.

 

This is the diagram I made of the Station and the locking tables

 

 

 

 

Wel they were described as locking table but actually seem to be what I have seemed as table of the Lever Leads  which are those details you see on the levers the levers which have to be operated first before that lever can be operated. It does not show the other locks needed to avoid conflicting moves. So the next set is to prepare a proper locking table.Whicxh I will post next time

 

Don

 

Very good Don. Do have a look at Modratec http://modratec.com/ before making your final decision (usual disclaimer).

[Northroader]

Good to hear you’re managing to pick up the threads of some modelling again.

[Donw]

I have been considering the locking requirements. It is interesting with Signals 2, 17, 18, and 19. Now 2 requires point 11 normal while 19 requires point 11 reversed so lever 11 can lock 2 or 19 as appropriate. However with 17 and 18 no points are requiredto be operated. In fact a train could be approaching from Penmaenpool with the signalman intending to hold it at the Home signal 2. Any locking on 2 would not prevent either 17 or 18 being pulled. Avoidance of a disaster relies on the Block Instruments.

So the questions are;

 

1. Would a system installed in 1894 have any interlocking between the lever frame and the block instruments my gut feeling says no it would rely on the signalman? Also the driver should check he has the staff or a ticket or a tablet for the section.

 

2. Although Interlocking 2 and 18 would not avoid all dangers I think anyone designing the frame would probably include such interlocking. Is that correct?

 

3. While pulling off both 17 and 18 would not constitute any direct conflicting move it would definately confuse the driver and be ambiguous as to whether the signal had been given the block or had blocked back for a shunt move. So would these be interlocked?

 

 

The first question invoked memories of the Abermule accident. I had always thought the driver should have realised it was the wrong tablet because the other train had not arrived. Thinking about the way things worked I have realised that if the other train had been delayed and not reached the next station, it would be possible for another tablet to be issued if the signalmen had decided to change the passing place. If it had been a staff or staff and ticket section that could not have happened as the staff would have been at the next station awaiting the delayed train. Of course if the driver had checked the tablet as he should, he would have noticed it was wrong. It is making assumptions that leads to danger.   

 

It also leads to me thinking about how the station was worked and whether all the moves were belled and controlled by block instuments. In particular how would a move from the down platform through the crossover onto the up loop beyond the platform or vice versa. These seem to me to cross between two sections. I would assume there may be special bell codes.

 

I do not expect to use bell codes. It always seems wrong to me when you can hear both boxes. If you have a terminus to fiddleyard layout hearing the bell for the terminus sets you up to expect a train. However hearing a bell in the fiddleyard would spoil the illusion. In the case of Dolgelley the two boxes would be about 500 yards apart so would not hear each other on a layout with the sort of room I have they would be about 15ft maximum apart. Hearing both would be silly. I am thinking though something wouldbe needed possibly something simple with colour leds to act as block instruments. It you did want bells some simplified system where the Up bell would sound in the east box and the down bell would sound in the west could work without sending me mad. SoWest box could send a signal to the East box who could give the Line Clear signal or the East box could ask for line clear on the down line  wilth a bell signal at the west Box . The full works on bell signalling is really sucessful on garden layouts where the two signalboxes a re far apart and cannot see each others stations. After an exchange of bell codes the first sight of the approaching train is something special.  I wonder how the Sherwood section coped with all those stations in one building.

 

Don

[Donw]

The other problem is Ground signal 8 this can be pulled if either 9 and 12 or 9 and 11 are pulled. Aslo 16  must be normal. The locking between 8 and 16 is no problem. Neither is the release of 8 by 9. However the release by 11 or 12. I beleive it comes under the heading of conditional locking. A simple locks will not do as it would require both to be pulled but that would be blocked by other locking so it needs to be and OR option. I did a search and found an SRS paper on GWR 3 bar locking. Very interesting and did mention conditional locking but it seemed a bit complex to make work. I could do with something simple. 

 

You can see what a relief it must have been for the GWR when in 1922 they amalgamated and all the fancy station working went and Dolgelley became a much simpler station to work. So much less interesting as a model though.

 

I also realise that the West Box was most probably built by Duttons and would therefore most likely have rather different levers to the normal sort in a signal box. I can live with that. I have never worked a Dutton Box. The ones I have had a go on are GWR frames so the Scalefour lever rame will be similar. It will still mean pulling the same levers in the same sequence which is close enough for me. In fact the GWR didn't adopt Tappet Locking until around 1904 so the East box would probably had an earlier style of locking. Although other companies did use Tappet Locking earlier, no idea if Duttons did. I see the SRS is selling a book on Dutton but seeing as they don't list any photos of Dolgelley it may be a bit disappointing

 

Don

[Donw]

I was quite surprised to see this hadn't been updated for over two years. Not surprising really as I have been really busy and there list of jobs keeps getting longer too.

However there has been some progress  I have drawn a rough plan of the garden layout fo 16mm live steam and work of building the shed has started but is done now and then. When finished there will be a space 18ftx10ft inside which can hold an 0 gauge layout with storage for 16mm train underneath. It is being built from bricks reclaimed from demolishing an extension and some outbuildings. Here is a rough sketch of the garden are

 

 

Don

[Donw]

The above post showed the plan for the garden side of things. Inside the building there will be storage for some 16mm trains about 9-12 inches above the floor. Above this I can have the 0 gauge layout based on Dolgelly. The idea is that a lot of the modelling will take place in the train room in the house. 

Because the station will have to curve round to fit into the space it would not make a good exhibition layout and be rather big to transport. The current portable layout shown on this thread currently sits in the indoor train room  but there is not space for a fiddleyard. Plus I would like to have an oval of track for testing and also being able to have a train just running round at times.

My thoughts are that if I build an oval of track with a terminus I could make the terminus removable to use as a portable layout. At one end I would need to replace the bit where it joins the oval  with a bit of straight track connecting to a fiddle yard of some sort.  I could make the boards cantilever over the oval running behind and cover will some buildings to represent the town.  This will give me a modest layout to use indoors and a layout that could be used for exhibitions which would be local ones by and large. Assuming of course we are ever going to be able to have exhibitions again.

I need to draw up a suitable plan to post (my scribbles so far are not quite suitable).

 

Aside from planning my current modelling activities have been working on DCC systems. After fitting sound to some locos I have decided the Lenz system needs upgrading the control I favour with a rotary knob for speed doesn't cover all the function buttons. I looked at replacements the Lenz ones seemed to have poor availability and be expensive. I found the gaugemaster ones at the club cumbersome and expensive. Cordless ones very expensive. I joined MERG which  I should have done years ago and have built their DCC system . Yes the was a bit of work assembling it but I enjoyed that  and the total cost was under £100. The handset is very neat.

 

 

 

 

However they do not offer a cordless one. Cordless is quite a problem because at exhibitions in particular wifi becomes unuseable. So the upshot is I am currently designing my own handsets either to work with the MERG system or to work with a different base station based on a design known as DCC++ developed by Gregg Borman as he wanted to learn C and Jaava programming.

The first step is sorting out the handset then adding a cordless link so I am building a test rig and writing code. It is over 20 years since I wrote any so I am rather rusty.

 

Don 

  

Edited March 31, 2022 by Donw
picture lost

[Mikkel]

Less than 100£, that's not bad. Good-looking controller too. 

 

I like that garden plan. But I foresee plums on the line!

[Donw]

6 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Less than 100£, that's not bad. Good-looking controller too. 

 

I like that garden plan. But I foresee plums on the line!

 

Picking fallen plums up is a necessary evil,  left on the ground either the wasps get them or the dog does. Wasps drunk on over ripe plums are a real hazzard as for the dog well suffice to say they upset her digestion. I am planning to avoid the line running under the plum tree there is rather more space than appears from the drawing.

 

Don

[Donw]

nothing at all to do with models but a couple of interesting things that I came across on you tube

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TalPkFcQM4

 

 

As someone who learnt a little cello playing the second is most impressive.

[bgman]

Roll over Beethoven ! 

[andi4x4]

On 23/09/2020 at 09:56, bgman said:

Roll over Beethoven ! 

He probably did !  

[sidmouth]

On 22/09/2020 at 23:50, Donw said:

nothing at all to do with models but a couple of interesting things that I came across on you tube

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TalPkFcQM4

 

 

As someone who learnt a little cello playing the second is most impressive.

I can highly recommend the steve and seagulls version of Thunderstruck. who knew an anvil could be a percussive instrument 

[Donw]

9 hours ago, sidmouth said:

I can highly recommend the steve and seagulls version of Thunderstruck. who knew an anvil could be a percussive instrument 

 

Well since a wardrobe door was used as a percussive instrument on a hit record  surely anything goes that makes a noise.

 

Don

 

 

[Donw]

While here I will do a quick update.

 

The Exterior of a new shed has been largely completed

 

 

 

I have made a start on removing the old shed which is inside!   The inside will need to be insulated and a floor and ceiling added at some stage.

 

Meanwhile I will be building an indoor layout because I will not want to be going up the shed on winter nights. This will be 0 gauge in a space of 140x108 inches and will include a continuous run for testing. That will need pretty tight curves so stock may be restricted. Layout plan to follow.

 

 

Don

Edited March 31, 2022 by Donw
missing picture

[Mikkel]

That's fairly substantial for a shed. I like the design, there's something railway-esque about it. 

 

Any prototype for the indoor layout, or will it be whatever takes your fancy?

[Donw]

1 hour ago, Mikkel said:

That's fairly substantial for a shed. I like the design, there's something railway-esque about it. 

 

Any prototype for the indoor layout, or will it be whatever takes your fancy?

 

It is rather too cramped to suit any prototype  The main space would be about 150yards by 30 yards full size so rather compressed.

 

Don

[Northroader]

Reminds me of somewhere?

[Mikkel]

3 hours ago, Donw said:

 

It is rather too cramped to suit any prototype  The main space would be about 150yards by 30 yards full size so rather compressed.

 

Don

 

Sorry, I wasn't clear, I meant the company. Hoping for GWR 

[Donw]

2 hours ago, Mikkel said:

 

Sorry, I wasn't clear, I meant the company. Hoping for GWR 

 

The stock (and the kits awaiting building) are GWR and Cambrian and probably set around the turn of the century although some later things may creep in.

[Donw]

Here is my plan for the indoor layout as mention the area it fits is 140 ins x 108ins a bit tight for 0 gauge.

 

 

Nothing out of the ordinary. A Terminus to Casstte system whith a continuous run included. Part of the continuous run is hidden under a bit of townscape  I hope. It would be possible to hold a train in the hidden section but there is no room for a passing loop.The turntable in the corner is a possible option. 

The Cassettes will probably have handles like Northroaders design and be stackable possibly stored under the scenic countryside bit. The cassette dock is behind a lift out section for access into the room. Fortunately the door can be opened even with the liftout in place. This is something I think essential. Should one have a stroke of some kind of accident one's partner can at least get into the room. Even if it is just to tut tut! at one's stupidity. 

Train will necessarily be short I may opt for 6 wheel stock although I do have some short coaches. Loco will probably be mostly 0-6-0 or 2-4-0s tank engines with maybe a 4-4-0 or two. Despite the sharp curves I think my Bulldog will cope admirably.

 

I have drawn up a Tandem turnout for the station throat which feeds the bay and the loop to maximise the platform length. I suppose the complex bit of track feeding the sidings is either a half scissor or an outside single slip depending on your view point.

 

Anyway comments are welcome. 

 

Don

 

 

[Mikkel]

I am not much use at trackplans, but I like the combination of cassettes and a continuous run. I can see how that can solve some space constraints or awkward angles.