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WW2 Trackside pilboxs...


class"66"

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There is one on the ECML just north of the large viaduct between Morpeth and Pegswood on the West side, but its a number of years since I was up there.

 

Also in Whitby there is a set of loopholes by one of the railway bridges that would cover the approach to the bridge and the old level crossing, I'll dig out some photos.

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The Defence of Britain database is a good source for pillboxes and other defences. http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archives/view/dob/ai_q.cfm

 

The footbridge over the station throat at Southamton Terminus was loopholed.

 

http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archives/view/dob/ai_full_r.cfm?refno=12720&CFID=307&CFTOKEN=FF85B800-DEF9-4FF5-A38D2A55AB2E7639

 

Pete

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Finally managed to get somewhere near to the St Ives line. The photos aren't the best as I was on the other bank of the estuary and the light was poor.

 

post-163-0-09295600-1388235570_thumb.jpg

 

This is the one that is closest to the mouth of the Hayle Estuary.

 

post-163-0-68919500-1388235571_thumb.jpg

 

post-163-0-10371300-1388235573_thumb.jpg

 

These show the pill box next to the line. There is a bridge carrying the line over a small footpath at this point. You can also see another wartime structure behind the pill box. Just below this is a quay known as dynamite quay, it was used during ww1. 

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Yer,theres that many different types of wartime pilboxs,and bunkers out n about near to main roads and railway lines... :sungum:  :locomotive:

Thought bunkers were for just oil storage neil.

Is pilboxs also none as bunkers?

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Thought bunkers were for just oil storage neil.

Is pilboxs also none as bunkers?

Pilboxs is different to "bunker" Bunkers are normaly found on old ww2 airfields,or in the back gardens to old houses.

Well i think im right,

Hooton airbase had bunkers! use to play in them as kid,think there called Stanton shelters.

But ive got no photos of these,and no access to them any longer...

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The main difference is that a pillbox is a fairly small defensive structure above ground whereas a bunker is mostly or completely below the ground surface, usually with apertures for weapons. They can be any size. Stanton shelters were air raid shelters of sectional reinforced concrete construction that were put in a hole to about half their height and covered over with earth. They were made by the Stanton Ironworks company. The Hooton examples survived until recently and images can be found on the web.

 

Pete

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Hi Class 66

 

Brick pillboxes are not what they seem, they are concrete boxes with a brick lining. Brick walls were used as shuttering for many pillboxes and just left in place.

 

Where corrugated iron sheets were used for the shuttering they were often left inside the pillboxes after the concrete had set.

 

 

The main difference is that a pillbox is a fairly small defensive structure above ground whereas a bunker is mostly or completely below the ground surface, usually with apertures for weapons. They can be any size.

 

Pete

Hi Pete

 

I have never come across this definition of the terminology, I have always been of the understanding that British pillboxes were bunkers. The use of the term pillbox came from the first world war, the early German bunkers were round in shape and looked like "pillboxes" hence the troops giving them that as a name which has remained in use.

 

The need for some form of defence system in 1940 lead to a massive quick build of small Light Machine Gun and Anti Tank Gun strong points connected by a trench system in various parts of the country. The trenches were filled in very soon after the war but the pillboxes remained. We have never been that good at building massive defensive systems, there are a few forts around our ports but nothing like the fortifications built in Europe from the late 1800s until the end of the cold war. 

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Presumably because nobody had mounted a successful invasion of Britain since 1066 and very few had tried, whereas Continental countries with land borders to hostile neighbours were always susceptible to invasion.  Only for a fairly brief period in 1940 - so brief that most of the defences were never finished - did it seem that the Blitzkrieg* might make it across the Channel with a credible possibility of action on British soil. 

 

Augmented by the harbour fortifications mentioned, the Channel makes a very good defensive ditch! 

 

*in the original sense of rapid advance over land supported by air, not the frequent British interpretation of aerial bombing alone. 

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Hi Edwin

 

I think it comes from the British army tradition of being mobile not static. Where we have built forts they were normally to house the troops who in times of adversity march to meet the enemy in the open. Even in WW1 our trenches were to provide shelter until there was an opportunity for the big push.

 

In WW2 when General Allen Brook took over from General Ironside he discontinued a lot of the planned fixed defences and reorganised the army so it was mobile and able to counter attack should the Germans cross the channel.

 

As for 1066 being the last time we were invaded, depends on your view of history but Dutch invasion of 5 November 1688 when King Billy kicked James out of Britain might have been the last successful invasion.

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Hi Edwin

 

I think it comes from the British army tradition of being mobile not static. Where we have built forts they were normally to house the troops who in times of adversity march to meet the enemy in the open. Even in WW1 our trenches were to provide shelter until there was an opportunity for the big push.

 

In WW2 when General Allen Brook took over from General Ironside he discontinued a lot of the planned fixed defences and reorganised the army so it was mobile and able to counter attack should the Germans cross the channel.

 

As for 1066 being the last time we were invaded, depends on your view of history but Dutch invasion of 5 November 1688 when King Billy kicked James out of Britain might have been the last successful invasion.

You no your war stuff Clive :no: Thanks for your good information.

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  • 5 months later...

Ive snapped few more pillbox pictures while out on the road,over last few months during work...

 

Came across two large pillboxs in Farnborough.

 

post-10160-0-35224400-1407981497.jpg

 

This pillbox seems to cover the road bridge and railway...

 

post-10160-0-38323400-1407981521.jpg

 

 

 

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Presumably because nobody had mounted a successful invasion of Britain since 1066... 

 

Hmm. Apologies for the diversion into historical pedantry (and I accept that it is) but since Clive has already gone there... I suppose it depends how you perceive it: Henry Tudor's landing in 1485 and William and Mary's in 1688 certainly had the character of invasion, even allowing for the quite substantial domestic support. The leaders were accompanied by substantial foreign armies and resulted in what can only be described as 'regime change'. Unlike the Normans, these two did actually invade Britain, and not just England. Had it not been for some careful chicanery in 1216 you could have added that one to the list too. 

 

Back on topic, you might find these interesting:

 

http://www.archaeologyuk.org/books/Foot2006

 

The defence of Britain project includes not only pill boxes but all the other features of fixed defence installations surveyed between 1995 and 2002. Many had been lost by this point already.

 

http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archives/view/dob/index.cfm

 

The gallery is especially interesting and, in particular, there are the loopholes in the bridge over the lines into Southampton Terminus:

 

http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archives/view/dob/ai_full_r.cfm?refno=12720

 

It's not only pill boxes.

 

Adam

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Hmm. Apologies for the diversion into historical pedantry (and I accept that it is) but since Clive has already gone there... I suppose it depends how you perceive it: Henry Tudor's landing in 1485 and William and Mary's in 1688 certainly had the character of invasion, even allowing for the quite substantial domestic support. The leaders were accompanied by substantial foreign armies and resulted in what can only be described as 'regime change'. Unlike the Normans, these two did actually invade Britain, and not just England. Had it not been for some careful chicanery in 1216 you could have added that one to the list too. 

 

Back on topic, you might find these interesting:

 

http://www.archaeologyuk.org/books/Foot2006

 

The defence of Britain project includes not only pill boxes but all the other features of fixed defence installations surveyed between 1995 and 2002. Many had been lost by this point already.

 

http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archives/view/dob/index.cfm

 

The gallery is especially interesting and, in particular, there are the loopholes in the bridge over the lines into Southampton Terminus:

 

http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archives/view/dob/ai_full_r.cfm?refno=12720

 

It's not only pill boxes.

 

Adam

Hi Adam

 

Could the Jacobite Uprising of 1745 be considered an invasion? Many of Charles Stuart's regular force was French trained Irish.

 

Then there is the Battle of Fishguard in 1797 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fishguard be regarded as the last invasion of the UK.

 

There is also the French intervention of the Irish Rebellion of 1798, where they landed in County Mayo, now was that the last invasion of Britain as Ireland was under British control? It was not part the UK until the Act of Union of 1800.

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It's probably reasonable to differentiate between landings and effective invasions Clive or we could be here all week! The Jacobite rebellion is one of those many, many attempts of French involvement with Scottish (and Welsh) internal politics from the 13th century onwards. None of them actually achieved that much long term. Certainly, the Fishguard effort is included in the putative Welsh battlefield register but that's not in the public domain yet so far as I am aware. Leaving Ireland out of the equation is probably sensible for lots and lots of reasons...

 

Adam

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Hmm. Apologies for the diversion into historical pedantry (and I accept that it is) but since Clive has already gone there... I suppose it depends how you perceive it: Henry Tudor's landing in 1485 and William and Mary's in 1688 certainly had the character of invasion, even allowing for the quite substantial domestic support. The leaders were accompanied by substantial foreign armies and resulted in what can only be described as 'regime change'. Unlike the Normans, these two did actually invade Britain, and not just England. Had it not been for some careful chicanery in 1216 you could have added that one to the list too. 

 

Back on topic, you might find these interesting:

 

http://www.archaeologyuk.org/books/Foot2006

 

The defence of Britain project includes not only pill boxes but all the other features of fixed defence installations surveyed between 1995 and 2002. Many had been lost by this point already.

 

http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archives/view/dob/index.cfm

 

The gallery is especially interesting and, in particular, there are the loopholes in the bridge over the lines into Southampton Terminus:

 

http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archives/view/dob/ai_full_r.cfm?refno=12720

 

It's not only pill boxes.

 

Adam

Cheers Adam,ile look over those websites...

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