PGH's photographs of British Railways from c1960

[steveNCB7754]

Good pic at railblue.com:

 

http://www.railblue.com/pages/Photo%20Galleries/David%20Mant%20Collection/DMC_01001_2_HD_170174.htm

 

Yes, that picture confirms it, they were definitely painted Pale Lilac! (Valspar IMHO) 

 

Steve N

[PGH]

I think they were most probably originally black weathered to green (ish)

 

After all that's been said I think I'll stick to that conclusion which seems to agree with most of the evidence.  Probably BR fans - to whom the original livery would have been significant - might have ignored any discolouration due to weathering in later years, whereas others might have taken it as an indication of the original livery.

 

Unfortunately my only photos of both locos, taken in 1979..............

 

I think it would be fair to say that as 01001 was declared non-operational shortly after my visit, 

 

I don't know the official withdrawal dates of these locos, but I was told by staff on site that 01001 had been partly dismantled for engine repairs c1971/2 which had never been completed so it was certainly never used after that date.  The author of the publication mentioned in Post #240 started work on the loco about late 1968 and stated: "There were two identical locomotives in the big engine shed but, during my time on the job, only one was ever in use.  The other was taken out from time to time but, in the end, was used for spare parts for the one in regular service"

So probably 01001 saw little if any use at Holyhead.

 

In July 1980 I was told that 01002 was last used "about 18 months ago", in July 1981 "about 2 years ago", so sometime in 1979 seems a reasonable assumption.  The main reason given by staff for abandoning the railway for stone transport was the condemning of the travelling crane which ran the length of the breakwater on its own rails and was used to unload the rail wagons and place the stone where required.  It was later toppled off the breakwater and cut up on the beach at low tide.

 

In July 1980 the railway still showed signs of recent use by the Wickham trolley.  IRS records show it as transferred to Bangor in Oct 1980, but I was told by staff in 1981 that it had been sent away in August or September 1980 for use on the Conwy Valley Line after flood damage, then taken to Bangor and scrapped.  Track on the breakwater railway was lifted in late 1980 and completed by Christmas leaving just the track in the shed and a few yards outside.

 

Finally, I forget as it seems so long ago, who the heck started this discussion by suggesting that these damn locos were green ?

[PGH]

The Nantlle Tramway was one of the more unusual parts of BR, and may be of limited interest here with perhaps little modelling potential.  It was officially closed in December 1963, together with the short Talysarn Branch from Penygroes.  The following black & white photos were taken in 1965 shortly before tracklifting commenced, and the colour photos were taken in 2007.

 

 

 

Talysarn Station Yard looking east.  The former passenger platform is on the far left (passenger services ceased in 1932), to the right is the slate transhipment wharf with 3'-6" gauge track still in situ but overgrown and far right is the small timber goods shed.  The Nantlle Tramway left the yard at the far left corner and crossed a road on the level.  In earlier years a standard gauge siding also crossed the road to serve the Coedmadoc Slate Quarry, the only North Wales slate quarry with a direct standard gauge connection into the quarry itself.  For a period at least this siding was mixed gauge and it is believed that it was worked by a narrow gauge locomotive hauling the standard gauge wagons.

 

 

 

Tramway trackwork between the standard gauge sidings, used for transfer of coal from main line to tramway wagons

 

 

 

The tramway ran alongside the road through Talysarn, view looking eastwards in 1965

 

 

 

A similar view in 2007

 

 

 

At the east end of Talysarn Village the tramway and road were crossed by a high stone embankment and this is the view looking west towards Talysarn Station from the top.  The tramway emerges from the second of two tunnels under the accesses to houses and a chapel on the north side of the road.  The embankment itself and all the slate waste and derelict property in the centre and foreground of the photo were cleared in a 1970s landscaping scheme and used to partly fill the flooded quarry pit on the left, leaving a tidier but rather featureless area and obliterating the tramway course.

 

 

 

The tramway and road passed through the embankment in separate arches

 

 

 

View looking east from the top of the embankment.  On the left is the flooded pit of Talysarn Quarry and bottom right behind the car are the bottom of two inclines, which formerly connected to the tramway.  The road was originally the main road through the Nantlle Valley until it was replaced by a new road on the south side of the valley following the collapse of part of it into the Dorothea Quarry Pit in 1924.  Two of The Dorothea Pit's blondin ropeway towers can be seen in the right distance.  From this point to the end of the tramway most of the original route was diverted at various dates to permit quarrying operations.  The original route here ran across the (later) quarry pit to enter a tunnel near the derelict building on the extreme left of the photo.  The final course shown here was the fourth as the pit was extended. 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2016 by PGH

[steveNCB7754]

The Nantlle Tramway was one of the more unusual parts of BR, and may be of limited interest here with perhaps little modelling potential.  It was officially closed in December 1963, together with the short Talysarn Branch from Penygroes.  The following black & white photos were taken in 1965 shortly before tracklifting commenced, and the colour photos were taken in 2007 ...

 

Wow!

 

Another gem.  That is an incredible location, that I have never seen pictures of before.  If I went to a show and saw a model layout looking just ike that, I would have assumed it was a somewhat unrealistic freelance effort (that double archway through the embankment is a 'doozy', as our American cousins say).  Would need some pretty deep boards to do all that justice though.

 

Thanks again for yet more amazing images.

 

Regards

Steve N

[JohnH]

Yet more fascinating photos... It's great to see some previously unpublished pictures from the Nantle area. More please!

[PGH]

The Nantlle Tramway (continued)

 

 

 

The junction of original and later routes behind the ruins of Talysarn Hall, view towards Talysarn.  The original route ran to the right, the tunnel being a later addition to enable a slate waste tip to be extended over the line.  The later route was to the left round the base of the tip.

 

 

 

Further east there was another diversion from the original route to make way for an extension of the Dorothea Quarry Pit, which included this overbridge of standard gauge dimensions

 

 

 

In 2007 the scene has hardly changed except for removal of the rails

 

 

 

The tramway crossed the road by a lattice girder bridge

 

 

 

The same bridge from track level - note the transverse steel strips fixed to the timber deck to give the horses grip.

The tips of Pen-yr-Orsedd Quarry, the line's ultimate destination, are in the left distance.

 

 

 

The same location in 2007

 

 

 

Nearing the terminus the tramway occupied a ledge high above the houses of Nantlle Village.  Just off the photo to the left is a flooded pit of the Pen-y-Bryn Quarry; Pen-yr-Orsedd Quarry is in the left distance with its top level mill just visible on the skyline; on the right the Nantlle Valley leads up towards Rhyd-Ddu with the summit of Snowdon hidden in the clouds beyond.

 

 

 

The tramway terminus from the bottom of the Pen-yr-Orsedd inclines.  The building on the left was formerly a stables, converted for use to transfer slates from tramway wagons to road vehicles.  The building beyond incorporated a weighbridge.  The narrow track crossing the tracks has been widened into the quarry access road and the remainder of this site is now very overgrown and obstructed by tree growth.

Edited January 12, 2016 by PGH

[PGH]

The next series of photos was taken on two trips to the West Highland Line and the lines north of Inverness in 1988, when all passenger workings were still in the hands of the Class 37s and just prior to the introduction of the Class 156 Sprinters on those routes. 

 

The photos are posted in the order taken, so some locations will appear more than once and the sequence may seem illogical at times.  It may be useful for that reason to give details of the routes taken:

July 1988 - overnight to Fort William; FW - Mallaig & return (steam  - not included here); Banavie - Mallaig - Kyle of Lochalsh (boat) - Inverness; Inverness - Wick & return.

September 1988 - Inverness via ECML and Aberdeen; Inverness - Kyle of Lochalsh & return; Inverness - Fort William (bus); FW - Mallaig & return (steam); FW - Oban; Oban - Crianlarich & return; Oban - Glasgow

 

 

37408 (and signal) at Glasgow Queen Street

 

 

 

37413 at Fort William on the 10.05 to Mallaig

 

 

 

20114 crossing the Caledonian Canal Bridge at Banavie, returning light engine to Fort William after delivering oil tank wagons to the Corpach Paper Mill

 

 

The Banavie swing bridge in action

 

 

 

Banavie Station, view towards Mallaig showing the new signalling centre opened the previous year, which controls train movements on the West Highland line

 

 

 

37424 arriving at Banavie on the 10.05 Fort William to Mallaig

Edited January 25, 2016 by PGH

[Anthony Ashley]

Dear PGH,

 

An amazing series of photos. I enjoyed the old and new comparisons. Keep up the good work in showing us the historical side of Rail in the UK.

 

Regards,

 

Anthony Ashley

[class"66"]

Another interesting read on here,nice photos too

[coachmann]

I didn't catch up until this morning and I have to admit I never realised the Nantle tramway was so interesting. Fascinating pointwork in the yard.

[PGH]

 

Kyle of Lochalsh

 

 

 

 

37419 on the 15.05 to Inverness

 

 

 

 

37414 on the 16.40 to Inverness with the converted DMU 'Hebridean' observation saloon next to the loco

 

 

Achnasheen Station

 

 

 

Crossing the River Bran east of Achanalt

 

 

 

Dingwall Station looking northwards

Edited January 25, 2016 by PGH

[lmsforever]

Like the Kyle photos especialy shots of station from the sea always wondered what the back of station looked like.The pic quality is great more please!

[Scottish Modeller]

 

C51020B.jpg

 

37414 on the 16.40 to Inverness with the converted DMU 'Hebridean' observation saloon next to the loco

 

Hi PGH...

 

More photos of the Hebridean if possible please!

[AberdeenBill]

Like the Kyle photos especialy shots of station from the sea always wondered what the back of station looked like.The pic quality is great more please!

 

Indeed!  When were the wagon turntables last used??   And I've not seen many pictures of air-conditioned Mk 2d/e/fs at Kyle, either.   More fantastic shots!

 

Bill

[PGH]

Hi PGH...

 

More photos of the Hebridean if possible please!

 

How's this:

 

Edited January 25, 2016 by PGH

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi PHG,

 

That's great - Just need to find more with the other side as well.

 

Another photo added to the 6300 file!

 

Thanks

[PGH]

 

37417 crossing the River Ness Viaduct at Inverness on the 7.10 ex Kyle of Lochalsh, viewed from the south side.

The viaduct collapsed 7 months later and was replaced by a rather less attractive steel structure.

 

 

 

37416 crossing on the 6.00 ex Thurso and Wick train

 

 

 

37417 on the 10.10 Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh taken from the north side of the viaduct

 

 

 

 

37419 at Inverness on the 11.10 to Kyle of Lochalsh

 

 

 

The rather attractive group of buildings at Helmsdale Station

 

 

 

Georgemas Junction from the departing Wick train with the Thurso section leaving from the other end of the station

 

 

Edited January 25, 2016 by PGH

[Bon Accord]

Great to see these photos of the lines North of Inverness. I was living near Tain at the time but for reasons which still astound I never took any photos. In the first shot of 37417 heading across the bridge, the red hulled ship visible beneath the viaduct is either BP HARRIER or BP HUNTER, owned by BP Oil UK and delivering fuel from the refinery at Grangemouth.

[PGH]

 

37416 after arrival at Wick

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

37260 arriving at Georgemas Junction on the Thurso section

 

 

 

Adding Thurso section to rear of train from Wick at Georgemas Junction

 

 

 

37416 about to leave Georgemas Junction on combined train

 

 

 

Brora goods shed

 

 

 

37418 on the 17.35 from Inverness arriving at Brora with 37416 right on the Inverness train

Edited January 25, 2016 by PGH

[Bon Accord]

The 6th photo (joining portions at Georgemas) is an interesting one for modellers - the passenger train is sporting an electric tail lamp (seen on the platform), whilst the ballast wagons still have an oil lamp. I've seen photos from as late as 1990 showing oil lamps still in use on passenger stock.

[forest2807]

Also of interest to modellers (well me at least!) are the 4th and 5th photos of Kyle posted on 7th April. They clearly show that 37414 and 37419 have different sized numbers, something that I never noticed when I lived in Inverness and spent many happy hours 'spotting' in the mid to late 80's. As a modeller of this era and region, getting the correct sized numerals for a particular loco when repainting and renumbering can be a bit of a minefield, as some manufacturers seem to find too (thinking of Bachmann's 37408 in particular).

[darren01]

Great set of photo's , I never know that they had a wagon turntable at Kyle of Lochalsh a very interesting  photo.

[PGH]

 

47492 at Inverness

 

 

 

Inverness south bound platforms with 47492 on the 10.35 to Euston

apparently the sun does shine occasionally in Scotland

 

 

 

37414 arriving at Inverness on 7.10 from Kyle of Lochalsh

 

 

 

Two months later back in Inverness and back in dull overcast weather, 37414 again, this time arriving on the 6.00 ex Thurso/Wick.

On the right 37421 is waiting to depart on the 10.10 to Kyle of Lochalsh

 

 

 

passing 37260 on a ballast train at Garve

 

 

 

37421 leaving Strathcarron on the 10.10 Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh

Edited January 25, 2016 by PGH

[Flood]

Also of interest to modellers (well me at least!) are the 4th and 5th photos of Kyle posted on 7th April. They clearly show that 37414 and 37419 have different sized numbers, something that I never noticed when I lived in Inverness and spent many happy hours 'spotting' in the mid to late 80's. As a modeller of this era and region, getting the correct sized numerals for a particular loco when repainting and renumbering can be a bit of a minefield, as some manufacturers seem to find too (thinking of Bachmann's 37408 in particular).

37414 has the original style of 37/4 numbers that Crewe applied in 1985/86. It has been stated that they were painted on but the style is consistent between all the locos so they probably were a specific batch of transfers made. Certainly up to 37416 came out of Crewe with this style which is thinner in profile (and slightly smaller in height) when compared to the B.R alphabet style used on the later 37/4s. A number of the 37/4s were renumbered with the later style when named; 37406, 37411 and 37412 for definite.

 

The later B.R alphabet style numbers used on the 37/4s were smaller than those used on most of the large logo 47s, being the same size numbers as those used on the Scottish 47/4s. These numbers are obtainable from either Precision Transfers or by using Gauge 1 cab side numbers from Fox.

 

For the original style 37/4 numbers I have had a word with one of the smaller suppliers (who does not specifically make transfers) to obtain an A5 sheet of individual numbers. The supplier in question is far to busy to do these as an additional product but once I have received the transfers, and used what I require, I may well have a few sets of spare numbers available.

[PGH]

 

Strathcarron Station

 

 

 

Strathcarron from the footbridge, view towards Inverness

 

 

 

View towards Kyle of Lochalsh

 

 

 

37415 arriving at Strathcarron on the 11.10 from Inverness

 

 

 

 

 

alongside Loch Carron with the avalanche shelter just ahead over the railway and A890 alongside

 

 

 

Kyle of Lochalsh (again)

 

 

 

……with 37415 running round

 

 

 

37415 on the 15.05 to Inverness

 

 

Edited January 25, 2016 by PGH