iamjamie Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I'm looking into the idea of creating a model railway of the Southend Pier Railway, at some point from the 50s to the 70s when it was at it's operational peak... It's still very much in the planning and development stage, and I'm currently in the process of drawing everything up in AutoCAD. It's a bit of a mad undertaking because, if build fully and to scale, the whole thing could end up over 13 metres long! But, like I said I'm only looking in to the idea right now! I'm interested to know where the signals would be placed on the railway. I've attached a track plan, and there's also a very good description of operations on this website http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/spr.html On the website, the description talks about each signal box controlling two home and two starter signals, but I'm not quite sure how these would be placed? (there is a picture on the website of two trains with some signals in shot, but I can't quite place it) Would there also have been starter signals at the stations? I'm sure there must be some of you out there who might have first hand knowledge of this period... Sadly I was born a little too late to ride in those very cool looking green trains! Any help would be gratefully received! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted December 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 4, 2013 Are these photos any use? All taken in the 1970s when I lived in Basildon. If you look very carefully you can see the signals in some of them. Southend Pier 30th April 1978 C3811 Southend Pier April 1978 J6029 Southend Pier from pierhead July 1975 C2188 Southend Pier July 1975 C2189 Southend Pier July 1975 C2190 Southend Pier October 1974 C1820 Southend Pier October 1974 C1818 Southend Pier October 1974 J4080 Southend Pier 30th April 1978 C3819 David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamjamie Posted December 4, 2013 Author Share Posted December 4, 2013 Are these photos any use? All taken in the 1970s when I lived in Basildon. If you look very carefully you can see the signals in some of them. Absolutely fantastic! Much better than some of the ones I've managed to track down online... Also great to have one of the lifeboat station from then, as I've not seen that yet... (The eventual idea is to model the pier head as well). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I vaguely remember travelling on this - must be in the late fifties, early sixties but do not remember any details. However looking at the pictures it seems to have been operated in both directions on each line, also the diamond crossing has been changed to a single crossover and no crossover within sight of the sea end station. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted December 4, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 4, 2013 I'm sure both ends were similar with crossovers at both. I have a vague recollection of a midway signal box as well. Now it has been mentioned I seem to recall that they could run in both directions on one track presumably to facilitate maintenance and so the railway could still operate in the event of a failure on one line. It would also allow "one train in spark" operation at less busy times. Wasn't there 5 trains in operation at the peak? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Absolutely lovely photos, David. I well remember these trains clanking over the pier from my childhood, but by the time I was old enough to be taking serious photographs, trips to the seaside/Southend weren't that great an attraction. By the time I'd got round to photographing the pier trains, they'd been replaced by the current diesel sets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted December 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 4, 2013 A couple more showing more of the Pierhead though the one from 1979 was after one of the fires. Southend Pier October 1974 J4079 Southend Pier SNCB Reine Astrid from PS Waverley May 79 C4473 This was a busy day as the Belgian ship Reine Astrid arrived almost at the same time as the PS Waverley. In this photo the Waverley is backing away from the pier. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted December 4, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 4, 2013 There was only two signal boxes, each one operated the crossover in front of it. Single line operation was used in the winter months with only one train working a shuttle with the signal cabins locked out of use. An interesting service vehicle was a self (diesel) powered platform car introduced in the 70's with a hi-ab crane, this still exists on one of the Welsh NG railways having been re-gauged. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Talking of gauge - what was it? 3', Metre? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Contact the peir museum, they should be able to help with details http://www.southendpiermuseum.co.uk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted December 4, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 4, 2013 The gauge was 3' 6" but the current trains are 3'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted December 5, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 5, 2013 I'm sure both ends were similar with crossovers at both. I have a vague recollection of a midway signal box as well. Now it has been mentioned I seem to recall that they could run in both directions on one track presumably to facilitate maintenance and so the railway could still operate in the event of a failure on one line. It would also allow "one train in spark" operation at less busy times. Wasn't there 5 trains in operation at the peak? No the track/signalling plan is correct. The trains were made up of 4 x 7 car sets (also detailed in the link by the OP), although perhaps sets could be reduced for maintenance reasons - not sure about that. Usually when my family travelled on it, we walked out & returned by train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted December 5, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 5, 2013 Some of the motor cars had controls at both ends so that they could operate singley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted December 5, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 5, 2013 It must be more than 50 years ago when I was there but I think I can recall short trains so that would make sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 It'll be good to see a working model, I have fond memories of day trips to Southend on sunny summer Sundays in the 1950's, with one way trips on the pier railway, after a walk to the pier-head, with the usual 'bang-bang-bang' as the wheels went over the rail joins, a sound that would carry quite a distance along the sea-front, only deadened by the din from the Kursal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamjamie Posted December 5, 2013 Author Share Posted December 5, 2013 I'm glad to hear that so many of you have fond memories of Southend Pier... The new diesel cars don't quite have the same character as the green ones! I was never fortunate enough to see them in action, although I have seen the one that's now in a shop in Leigh-on-Sea! I haven't been to the Pier Museum for many, many years, although I must make sure I have a visit soon! I think I can surmise from looking at the pictures that four of the signals would be placed like so... Can anyone else confirm this? I assume that the crossovers would also be protected by signals in the other directions as well, but I can't see that in any photos? (You can probably tell that signalling is not my strong point!) There also doesn't appear to be any indication of signalling the route that is set? On a small railway like this, is that not really required? Thank you for all your help so far! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 I seem to recall that the approach to a diverging point had 2 signal heads, thus indicating the route? As I was a youngster at the time, but had just received my 1st H-D colour light signals, I likened them to the pier signals as I recall. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 The new diesel cars don't quite have the same character as the green ones! I was never fortunate enough to see them in action, although I have seen the one that's now in a shop in Leigh-on-Sea! Ah. That's what it was! I lived in Leigh On Sea for a few years and remember the gift shop in the old town part of Leigh. I always thought it was a tram, I didn't realise it was from the Southend Pier Railway... doh! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamjamie Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 I managed to find a piece of cine film where you can see two signal heads, but only on one side... So I am assuming that the signal/track plan would look like this...? This seems to tally with the description of two home signals and two starter signals. Can anyone confirm if this would be prototypical practice (or is there no such thing as prototypical practicewhen it comes to these smaller unique railways)? I note that there is no indication of route setting as the train departs from the platform, but as the pier railway observes left-hand running would drivers just assume when they get a clear signal they would be routed to the left hand track? Planning is still underway, but I'm trying to decide between building in N or Z Scale... With Z Scale the overall size becomes a lot more manageable, but the actual cars will be pretty tiny in size! If I went down that route I think I'd be looking at T Scale sized motors to drive everything... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Again from memory, I'm sure your assumption is right. ie: Depart from either terminus, L or R platform, with LH running up to the 2nd x-over. Double signal head on approach to the x-over, which would show the route into either LH or RH platform. When I visited, there always seemed to be 4 trains running, so an Up & Down (if that is the correct definition) would pass somewhere along the journey. Often the train would also be held at the approach to the terminus while the next train departed. As a youngster, I was fascinated by this "big" railway trainset on the pier. The cars reminded me of Blackpool Railcoach trams, with their immaculate green/cream paintwork and varnished wood interior. There were adverts in the cars, always one from the paint supplier advertising his product as used on the cars. The wheelbase of the cars matched the rail joints; it is said this led to the demise of the railway due to the vibration caused. At the Pierhead end there was one of the older cars, used as a motorised goods wagon to bring supplies out to the shops/cafes etc. It always seemed to be parked in the west platform by the buffers. Stewart edit ps where is this car to be found in Leigh? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 edit ps where is this car to be found in Leigh? In Leigh old town, by the seafront. As you walk from Leigh beach (Chalkwell end of Leigh) through the old town towards Leigh railway station, there's a large souvenir shop on the right. Can't remember what it's called, sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Found it on Google Street View. It's called the "Lynn Tait Gallery at the Old Foundry". Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamjamie Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 If you're visiting Leigh-on-Sea make sure you stop for some cockles at the seafood hut! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Cockles!!, Prefer the beer nice pubs in the summer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamjamie Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 Cockles!!, Prefer the beer nice pubs in the summer. Luckily there's a pub across the road! The best of both worlds! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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