JeffP Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Been using the stuff from Building O Gauge Online for a few years now, had no problems whatsoever. Good price too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Topics merged. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) 75% Phosphoric Acid - http://www.brewuk.co.uk/store/phosphoric-acid.html?gclid=CMrUh6nkursCFbMPtAodpQ0AwA £5.17 plus carriage £8.16 in all - came as promised 1 litre Carplan De-ionised Water, Sainsbury's £1.30 250ml 75% Phosphoric acid makes 2 litres of 9% flux or 1.5 litres of 12% flux - cost each dilution £10.66, Better than three quid for 60ml. Edited December 18, 2013 by Coombe Barton 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Very acidic though...I'm pretty sure the Building O Gauge Online stuff isn't phosphoric acid, and it has something light blue in it that you need to shake up every now and then...copper salt? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazz Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 (edited) Hi, thanks for your replies and hints. I have spoken to my supplier of solders (MBO (UK) Ltd.). They manufacture a bewildering array of solders & fluxes. Bottom line from their excellent technical department is continue with their 175 and 60/40 solder and use their Z60 liquid flux. That is perfect for brass and niclike silver etches. Just needs washing in warm soapy water to remove residues. Also safe to use on a daily basis as long as you don't continually bend over the work and suck in the fumes as you apply the iron. That BTW was my main concern (fumes). In other words, no flux is entirely safe. Water based really means a solder that will clean up with water only, apparently. Addtionally, they recommended a small inexpensive bench top soldering fume extractor. I have found exactly what they were refering to in Maplins (£22.99) . One on order. Hope all this is useful. Edited December 29, 2013 by jazz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev_Lewis Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Additionally, they recommended a small inexpensive bench top soldering fume extractor. I have found exactly what they were refering to in Maplins (£22.99) . One on order. http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/solder-fume-extractor-n33ch Looks like a very handy piece of kit. They're out of stock now, did you get the last one, Ken? It might also be handy for glue fumes too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazz Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Hi Kev. No, they are still out of stock. If that's the case next week I will get the identical one from an ebay shop at a slighly increased price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Hi, I'm not certain that that fan/filter from Maplins will be much use, probably gives the user a false sense of security. You may as well get a £9.99 fan from argos and blow the fumes away. Anyway, phosphoric acid is not poisonous, it is used in many food products (cheaper than citric acid). I buy it by the gallon, 'milkstone remover', for cleaning stainless steel dairy equipment, about £12 from your local agricultural supplier. Best wishes, Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazz Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Not poisonous?? Read this about it. (I used to have to wear all kinds of protection at the chemical plant I worked at using phosphoric acid and this was in the foodchain too.) I am concerned about numbers 6 7 & 8 below. The carbon filter in the extractor is a help and common sense must prevail. (An ordinary fan will not clean the fumes at all) Reseach has shown that only a very small percentage of the population is affected by soldering fumes but warnings are given by elf & safety for that reason. In a factory environment where there are many people sitting a production benches soldering all day fume extraction is a must. I am taking of just one guy spending each day soldering kits. Therefore I agree with MBO it is not a bad thing to invest a small amout of money in a fan with a carbon filter to reduce the smoky fumes and aid the precautions I already use in soldering methods. Phosphoric acid is: used to remove rust corrosive causes burns harmful if swallowed harmful when in contact with skin may be harmful through inhalation very destructive of mucous membranes very destructive of the respiratory tract, eyes and skin very destructive to bones by degrading bone density a culprit of dental erosion a contributor to Osteoperosis Learn more about phosphoric acid and Coca-Cola. Resources: Oxford University: Chemical Safety Data – Phosphoric AcidCorrosive – causes burns. Harmful if swallowed and in contact with skin. May be harmful through inhalation. Very destructive of mucous membranes, respiratory tract, eyes and skin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Hi Jazz, The list you've given, looks like a description of rough cider to me. The real point I was trying to make, bearing in mind the likely low level of exposure to fumes that is likely to made in soldering up brass kits, is that concerning the Maplin fan being ineffective in absorbing the fumes produced. I can not see any information concerning its performance. The industrial scale units are designed by specialist manufacturers, and are not just a cheap fan with a dubious quality filter attached. Therefore I think it gives a false sense of security, and if you can't duct the air outside, then any cheap fan to blow it away from your face would probably do just as well. Best wishes, Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazz Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Hi Ray. I see where are coming from. That extractor cannot possibly match the performance of extractors costing hundreds that have exhaust ducting. I put it in similar category of a cooker hood, just sucks the smokey fumes towards it and the carbon filter hopefully help reduce the airborn contaminates. It will be interesting to see if it has any effect on the wheels and axles on the w/b during construction. The extract I posted is from a site listing phosphoric acid uses and dangers and pretty much in line what the training centre at my old employer regarding the chemicals we handled. I realise the acid in fluxes is well diluted but I still worry about what is does to metals on the w/b just from the fumes given off. I wonder what it does breathing it in, even in diluted quantities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffalo Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Not poisonous?? Read this about it. (I used to have to wear all kinds of protection at the chemical plant I worked at using phosphoric acid and this was in the foodchain too.) I am concerned about numbers 6 7 & 8 below. The carbon filter in the extractor is a help and common sense must prevail. (An ordinary fan will not clean the fumes at all) Reseach has shown that only a very small percentage of the population is affected by soldering fumes but warnings are given by elf & safety for that reason. In a factory environment where there are many people sitting a production benches soldering all day fume extraction is a must. I am taking of just one guy spending each day soldering kits. Therefore I agree with MBO it is not a bad thing to invest a small amout of money in a fan with a carbon filter to reduce the smoky fumes and aid the precautions I already use in Phosphoric acid is: used to remove rust corrosive causes burns harmful if swallowed harmful when in contact with skin may be harmful through inhalation very destructive of mucous membranes very destructive of the respiratory tract, eyes and skin very destructive to bones by degrading bone density a culprit of dental erosion a contributor to Osteoperosis Learn more about phosphoric acid and Coca-Cola.Resources: Oxford University: Chemical Safety Data – Phosphoric AcidCorrosive – causes burns. Harmful if swallowed and in contact with skin. May be harmful through inhalation. Very destructive of mucous membranes, respiratory tract, eyes and skin. And not forgetting as a base component in certain dark coloured soft drinks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppercorn Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I hope that it's not too late to add to this. I've used a variety of fluxes over the years, and still like to use Baker's Fluid. It is acidic as has been pointed out in many places, but it works and provided that it is carefully washed off it's fine. I built my first loco in '73, the next in '78 and another in '80 (oh, God, was it really that long ago? ) all in brass and all using Baker's. There's no sign of corrosion, which may well disappoint those who condemn Baker's, but it's a fact. I also used an enormous great soldering iron with a copper bit about 25 square and 60 long with a long handle and heated on the gas cooker until there was green in the flame, then tinned with plumber's solder, also something I shouldn't have used, if today's books on scratchbuilding are to be believed. But I digress - back to flux. Lately I've been using the same flux as JeffP and find it good stuff to use. Cliff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium macgeordie Posted January 17, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2014 I too have been using the '0' gauge safety flux for a long time and find it much more pleasant to use. I used to almost choke when using the Carrs green flux and had to hold my breath for the few seconds the vapour was in the air after making a joint. With the safety flux there are virtually no fumes or smell and it doesn't choke you if you accidently breath any in. I noticed in one of the earlier posts that someone who has used this flux found it caused any steel in the area to rust. I have also seen this happen, but the only steel on the models I build is in the wheel assembles and these arn't usually on the model when soldering, but having said that, the same thing happens with Phospheric acid based fluxes anyway. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Hello all, I got this bottle of flux off ebay, works just like Bakers No.3. I then decant it in to a small jar like this. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev_Lewis Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Crikey OzzyO. That's more flux than most of us would get through in a lifetime! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium macgeordie Posted January 18, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2014 Crikey OzzyO. That's more flux than most of us would get through in a lifetime! Unless there's alcohol in it !!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I bet Ken would use a full container's worth in a month...two at the most. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Bus Driver Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) ...having had the red stuff dripping out of my nose for the last few hours. You could try using that as flux... (sorry couldn't resist it) Seriously though hope it wasn't too serious. Edited January 18, 2014 by The Evil Bus Driver Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazz Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 (edited) I bet Ken would use a full container's worth in a month...two at the most. Jeff, I do go through a lot flux and solder. I have for years been using Carrs Red with really good results and no fumes and smells. No detectable ill effects. HOWEVER all fluxes are an irritant and worth noting the usual warning on the Gauge 0 container. It's an acid as in any other flux. I purchase my solders from MBO in large 500g reels (Under £25 each). I found the Carrs fluxes had become jolly expensive at the last Guild bash in Telford. Subsequently I talked with MBO technical guy about fluxes. Very enlightening. Basically water based seems to be a bit of a misnomer, it really means water soluble and cleanup is water, unlike some other fluxes that needs a nutralizer. I have now switched to MBO Z60 flux, recommended for hobbyists and suitable for the non ferrous metals we use. The models turning green occures purely because of flux reacting with the copper content in the brass. Regular washing in warm water during a build is the only way to stop that happening. Going back to Carrs flux, I started to use that because Bakers and other seemed to eat my irons tips in sometimes a matter a weeks. Carrs stopped that over night, My usual Antex tips now last at the very least a full twelve months in almost daily use. MBO have assured me their flux will give the same result at a more acceptable price. Also a fume extractor, no matter how small can only help and the usual prcautions of fumes will have to be observed no matter what flux used. What will irritate one will have no effects on another. I too, suffer from a runny nose. Now whether this is irritation from flux or most likely a reult of the post heart operation medication is unknown. Suffice it to say the problem has increased greatly since taking the medication, that has a stuffy, runny nose as a side effect on some patients. Or just advancing years as all kinds of weird things happen when getting on a bit. Just my thoughts and experiences, other will probably find different. Edited January 19, 2014 by jazz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 You could try using that as flux... (sorry couldn't resist it) Seriously though hope it wasn't too serious. Don't be daft I used it to help fill up the tomato sauce bottle. Only lost about 1/8 pint, if that. OzzyO. PS. not all liquid flux are acid, some of them are alkaline. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazz Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Don't be daft I used it to help fill up the tomato sauce bottle. Only lost about 1/8 pint, if that. OzzyO. PS. not all liquid flux are acid, some of them are alkaline. OOPS Red face time, I forgot that fact, thanks OzzyO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustytrev Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 On 18/12/2013 at 22:14, Coombe Barton said: 75% Phosphoric Acid - http://www.brewuk.co.uk/store/phosphoric-acid.html?gclid=CMrUh6nkursCFbMPtAodpQ0AwA £5.17 plus carriage £8.16 in all - came as promised 1 litre Carplan De-ionised Water, Sainsbury's £1.30 250ml 75% Phosphoric acid makes 2 litres of 9% flux or 1.5 litres of 12% flux - cost each dilution £10.66, Better than three quid for 60ml. Hello, I got some phosphoric acid 250ml at 81%. Can anyone tell me what amount of De-ionised Water I need to add for 12% flux please? I have tried working it out but I just get confused by the difference between 75% and 81% strengths of phosphoric acid. I know it would make a larger quantity but I would like to have an accurate mixture strength. Thank you. trustytrev..:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 5 hours ago, trustytrev said: Hello, I got some phosphoric acid 250ml at 81%. Can anyone tell me what amount of De-ionised Water I need to add for 12% flux please? I have tried working it out but I just get confused by the difference between 75% and 81% strengths of phosphoric acid. I know it would make a larger quantity but I would like to have an accurate mixture strength. Thank you. trustytrev..:) Add 1.35 litres of deionised water to your 250ml and you'll get 12% flux. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meil Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) Actually it's 1640ml (1.64l). 1.35l gives you 15%. Edited February 21, 2019 by meil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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