RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2014 I assume you are using split axle pick-up how do you plan to insulate the frames from each other? Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Fox 34F Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 I assume you are using split axle pick-up how do you plan to insulate the frames from each other? Don Don, I have designed the chassis along the lines of the gentleman who built the Cambrian 0-6-0 that featured in the 2mm association magazine. The difference is that i do not have machine tools other than a basic pillar drill. I also want to be able to drop my wheels out of the frames on the axles, hence the frame plates. In answer to your question, a layer of .020 styrene sheet will separate the two halfs of the chassis and the fixing bolts at each end will be threaded into epoxy resin filled holes. I hope i can keep it all square. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2014 That should work. Putting some longer rods in place of the axles while lining it all up may help. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2mm Dabbler Posted January 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2014 When Dave Holland built his model the Association wheels had steel axles. When production changed to the current lost-wax centres with integral axles those modellers who ran their locos for long distances found that thin frames could cut grooves in the axles, hence the current general use of phosphor-bronze bearings. Naturally this may not matter depending on your planned layout. Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Fox 34F Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Don and Michael, Thanks for the advice. I have purchased a long length of 1.5mm silver steel rod. I'll chop off three lengths. I have also agonised over the fear that over time the thin P/S frames may cut grooves in the axles, but currently this is an experiment to see whether i'm capable enough to build the loco. If I find I can assemble the wheelsets easily, I may retro-fit bearings into the frames Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted January 25, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2014 I've been playing with a few of the new etched diesel chassis in recent times and have eventually concluded that slotted frames to allow the complete wheels/axles to be dropped out are best. As these chassis are thin N/S I have just slotted the P/B bearings after fitting/assembling them and this seems to work quite okay. Izzy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2014 If you are interested in using a keeper plate this thread shows a rather sophisticated version not my work http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67975-saint-class-locomotive/page-4 Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Fox 34F Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 Dear All, Thank you for all your tips and especially to Don for the link to the Saint thread. I may try the method of Keeper plate shown on a follow up locomotive. The A class only has springs below the rear axle, the other two are behind the splashers. The really locomotives were really rather spindly in construction, hence my methods. No more work to show, my wife has been I'll, but is on the mend now. Hopefully tomorrow, I can drill out the brass block ready for a soldering/bolting session on Thursday, fingers crossed Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted January 28, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2014 If all you want to do is provide a keeper plate that stops the wheels/axles falling out then perhaps the method I have adopted may be of interest. Basically it's just a strip of metal - n/s in this case (scrap etch from some 2mm SA kit, coach I think) - bent as needed and held in place by the screws also holding the body to the chassis. It runs down the centre under/over the muffs to aid insulation from both frames. I've done two chassis like this, and although crude it works. Here a shot of it under a 08 chassis under construction. Izzy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Fox 34F Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 If all you want to do is provide a keeper plate that stops the wheels/axles falling out then perhaps the method I have adopted may be of interest. Basically it's just a strip of metal - n/s in this case (scrap etch from some 2mm SA kit, coach I think) - bent as needed and held in place by the screws also holding the body to the chassis. It runs down the centre under/over the muffs to aid insulation from both frames. I've done two chassis like this, and although crude it works. Here a shot of it under a 08 chassis under construction. Izzy 08 web 1.jpg Izzy, A very clever idea! I will look more carefully at this option. I won't be able to get away with a straight strip, but I have no issue with bending him metal strip. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 The gear wheel will exert considerable downward force when the loco is in motion. In Izzy's case, this isn't a problem because the geared axle is immediately adjacent to one of the fixed (i.e. screwed down) ends of the keeper plate, but it might be a much greater problem if gears are mounted on one or more intermediate axles. There is a simple solution, make up the keeper plate from a single piece of strip, shaped as necessary, and fit it to the loco just as Izzy has done. Then use a felt tip marker to indicate on the underside (i.e. the side visible in Izzy's photo) where the strip interacts with the axle muffs and also anywhere where there are other obstructions immediately touching the keeper plate. Then cut (and, as necessary, shape) further pieces of the strip to be soldered to the topside of the keeper plate everywhere where it isn't obstructed. Even though these strengthening pieces aren't continuous, they add considerably to the strength of the keeper plate and should be sufficient to stop it trying to flex in response to force from the geared axle(s). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Fox 34F Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 Dear All, Once again thanks for all the advice. The rear axle will be driven by the gearset, so hopefully, the keeper strip will be feasible. I have done some more work this afternoon, in between domestic tasks. All the spacers for the locomotive chassis have been cut, pilot drilled and half tapped where necessary. Half tapped, i hear you say! I managed to snap a 12BA tap in one bolt hole and spent the best part of 30 minutes drilling it back out. Note to self, when tired don't try to tap bolt holes!!! I'm now on 12 hour shifts for the next few days, so workshop closed until Monday. Hopefully, i'll have something to show you all later next week Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Fox 34F Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 Dear All, I've just realised I have not posted anything for three weeks. Firstly, my apologies for this. I seem to be at work rather a lot, one job was to deal with double decker bus under a low bridge! thankfully only the driver was on board! Secondly, I'm in the process of constructing a pair of 2HAL's from resin kits in 4mm for a friend and a caricuture of my cousins Narrow Boat for her wedding cake!!! There has been some progress with the locomotive. The frames and stretches have been shaped and the cutout for the gearbox filed out. I have also constructed a Back to Back gauge set at 9.59mm, as per the handbook. Next job is to summon up the courage to assemble the wheel sets. This leads me on to a question. After I drill out the axle muffs to 1.5mm dia., are the stub axles a tight fit or is adhesive involved? Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DavidLong Posted February 28, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 28, 2014 There has been some progress with the locomotive. The frames and stretches have been shaped and the cutout for the gearbox filed out. I have also constructed a Back to Back gauge set at 9.59mm, as per the handbook. Next job is to summon up the courage to assemble the wheel sets. This leads me on to a question. After I drill out the axle muffs to 1.5mm dia., are the stub axles a tight fit or is adhesive involved? Paul Hi Paul, The answer is that they will still be a tight fit after using a 1.5mm drill on the muffs. 1.5mm drills are generally about 1.48mm across the flutes and when this is combined with the softish material of the muffs then you will still find the axles a tight fit. Some of us have resorted to drills which are defined by two decimals rather than one i.e. 1.51mm, 1.52mm and 1.53mm which seem to give more precise enlarging of the hole in the muff. The previous supplier has somewhat unhelpfully introduced a minimum order of 12 drills per size (!) but we have found an alternative here: http://www.drill-service.co.uk/Product.asp?Parent=020080240000&Tool=394 The ideal is to open out the hole so that it is possible to get a reasonable enough fit for testing the chassis. If this proves to be satisfactory and there doesn't seem to be any slippage it may be possible to just leave them as they are. For added security you can drill a couple of holes in the muff above the half-axles and drop a little cyano into them. This should hold them perfectly well in normal service but if it really is necessary to subsequently dismantle them a quick twist of the wheels will usually be sufficient to break the glue joint. Hope this helps. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Fox 34F Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 David, Thank you for the advice and the link to the drill bits. Hopefully, I can crack on now and get the wheels assembled and test fitted Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish_N Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Flying Fox, I'm sorry I've missed your posts regarding this subject. I'm very rarely on RMweb, as I run the Irish N Gauge group on yahoo. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/irish_n/ There's also a seperate group for the Irish Area Group of the N Gauge Society. Feel free to stop by our group - there's lot's of info and pictures there, but as far as I'm aware, none of our members have been brave enough to tackle the 'proper' Irish scale. Modifying existing stock to resemble Irish prototypes is about as far as we venture at present, as well as building kits, and using 3D printed shells etc. Hope this helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Fox 34F Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 Hello, I'll admit that I did not realise there was an Irish group within the N gauge society. Thank you for the link. I will have a look round and keep in touch. Now an update, I have managed to assemble my wheel sets and I rested the chassis on the drivers to see how things are. I need to fettle the rear axle holes as currently, it is trying to copy a Hot Rod car! I promise to post pictures soon. I was at Nottingham on Saturday and naturally dropped in on the 2FS room. I had a drive on Colwyn Goods (thank you) and a natter with a couple of members and especially Mick Simpson, who was demonstrating the assembly of his and John Whiteheads couplings. They are fiddly, but the new jig he had makes it much easier. Mind you, what isn't fiddly in 2mm! Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Fox 34F Posted May 10, 2014 Author Share Posted May 10, 2014 Hello out there, I bet you were thinking I'd disappeared. No, I have been spending most of my spare time catching up on tidying up my garden and trying to build a garden railway. The class A has not been forgotten. The wheel sets are assembled and a trial fitting has taken place. Ironically, my frames are too narrow, by 0.2mm, so there is excess side play. I will need to thicken the insulating layer. Any how now I'm managing to catch up I can start to look at the locomotive more seriously. Keep an eye out for more updates, but don't hold me to it Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted May 11, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 11, 2014 Hello out there, I bet you were thinking I'd disappeared. No, I have been spending most of my spare time catching up on tidying up my garden and trying to build a garden railway. The class A has not been forgotten. The wheel sets are assembled and a trial fitting has taken place. Ironically, my frames are too narrow, by 0.2mm, so there is excess side play. I will need to thicken the insulating layer. Any how now I'm managing to catch up I can start to look at the locomotive more seriously. Keep an eye out for more updates, but don't hold me to it Paul Be interested to known about the garden railway but probably not a topic for here. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Fox 34F Posted May 17, 2014 Author Share Posted May 17, 2014 Don, When I return from usual Eastern Europe in 3 weeks, I'll have to scribble something down about my efforts in the Great Outdoors. I'll post a link! Suffice to say, it's taken the best part of two years to plan and the wife insists that all work is completed on one section before I dig up another part of the lawn. Then, she wonders why I try to build a 152nd scale locomotive when I cannot go outside Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Fox 34F Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 It is just over ten months since I said anything on this subject. My apologies for not posting any details on the Garden Railway either here or on a separate thread. It turned out to be very slow going and with work and family, it got a lot slower. As for 2mm matters, nothing has been done to the locomotive. DIY and work took up my time and for some reason my Mojo died away during the dark winter months. I did acquire a new Proxxon Micromot drill set and drill stand, but not used it in anger yet. As the days began to draw out my interest began to return, but now I have an unspecified lower back problem that means I spend a lot of time standing and walking around. I can only sit for about 30 minutes before I end up in considerable pain, also my vision has caused trouble resulting in the purchase of prescription reading glasses. The joys of age. I have not forgotten my hobby, but have concentrated on research and drawing up items on my CAD system. 3D printing is getting interesting, though I'm wary of the quality, but I know it is getting better. Hopefully, I can get cracking soon and have something to show you all Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted March 29, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2015 Sorry to hear of your health problems hope it improves soon. If the eyesight is reading glasses for old age that is unlikely to improve. I find an extra strong pair are a boon for 2mm modelling but have to take them off to walk about. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Fox 34F Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 Don, Thanks for the encouragement. Got the glasses now. What a difference. I can read the 0.5mm divisions on the ruler again. I'd noticed that I was struggling to get measurements onto smaller items easily. The last straw was when I could not position a centre punch mark in the correct place. The Mojo is starting to comeback. The back troubles have eased as well. I suspect the warmer weather is helping. Here's to the future Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 84C Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Good to see you are getting back on form Paul, take heart, many of us seem to have the sudden eye sight problems which creep up and surprise! My wife says I look like a lunatic professor with two pairs of glasses on. If you decide to go down to the IRRS London meetings, please let me know as a travelling companion makes the trip more interesting. Regards Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Fox 34F Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 Mike, Thanks for the encouragement. I have been experimenting with the glasses underneath the magnifying lenses. I look like Doc Brown! I would love to get down to the IRRS meetings, but it seems to fall that I'm working whenever there is a meeting. The joys of working for the Big Railway. I'll contact you on a PM if any dates fall into place. As for this project, I have not been idle, just sorting out some more research and rejigging the chassis layout, to make it easier to construct. I'm tempted to have it etched. I'm even pondering 3D printing the body, but I'm struggling with the CAD program at the moment. It will come together eventually Paul 4475 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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