RMweb Gold big jim Posted December 12, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 12, 2013 Or when your knackered 56s sit down and block the line for hours in end, causing chaos. GW not me guv, i only work 66s on the MML! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Bear Digital Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 But when is Market Harborough actually going to happen? Bearing in mind I first read about it in 'Modern Railways' back in the mid seventies. Then in the same magazine a month or so back I find it hasn't even been given the go-ahead. So it now seems Nottinghamshire County Council are having to push for it. (Even though the afore mentioned curve is actually in Northamptonshire). Any further updates would be welcome. it was costed up a few years ago at £26 million. Deemed not worth the money so now on the back burner as they say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan452 Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 (edited) it was costed up a few years ago at £26 million. Deemed not worth the money so now on the back burner as they say. I would have thought the time saving on this may have been greater than on some of the relatively short 125mph sections (e.g. north of St.Albans to Harpenden) where even the Meridian's would barely reach maximum speed before slowing down again. The recent 'Modern Railways' article was noting that if the re-alignment was carried out in conjunction with platform extensions, bridge raising for electrification and a loop for 'Big Jims' lumbering freight trains; then the marginal cost may be a lot less. (Bearing in mind the land is railway owned already.) This is what apparently Nottinghamshire County Council are suggesting, after all they finally won the argument over Nottingham station which originally was going to be a 'like for like' renewal. Also if Market Harborough is not deemed to viable how were some of the more extensive East Coast re-alignments of the late sixties and seventies justified? e.g. Hatfield, Offord, Peterborough, Rely Mill, Newton Hall. And even say Weedon on the West Coast raised from 80mph to 100mph at the end of the eighties. Or is it that projects like speeding up Market Harborough going to weaken the case for HS2? Edited December 13, 2013 by jonathan452 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Is the situation at Market Harborough still as described here? The section through Market Harborough is the most curved on the entire MML, with a series of s-bend curves (known as 'reverse curves') as the line snakes its way through. This imposes a string of speed restrictions over around 2 miles, so that the speed drops from 100mph to 75mph, then 60mph, then 85mph before finally returning to 100mph. (from a Notts county council memo of 2009/10, reproduced at http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmeastmid/memo/104/m1702.htm) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 125 mph in a Merde Ian? Lordy. They're rough old rock n rollers at current line speeds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan452 Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Is the situation at Market Harborough still as described here? (from a Notts county council memo of 2009/10, reproduced at http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmeastmid/memo/104/m1702.htm) As far as I know - though haven't travelled this far North in many years! Also noting that in the southbound direction the current speed restriction falls at the foot of a fairly steep bank. (1:132 for approximately five miles to Desborough North.) Back in the Class 45 days a recovery in speed on a non stopping train from the then 50mph restriction to anything more than 65mph at the summit with a nine coach load would be exceptional. (Following wind. ETH turned off.) Whilst obviously HST's and Meridians have far more power there is still the issue of reducing fuel consumption, and braking wear and tear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 (edited) So, back of an envelope calculation for time taken for a non-stop train, over this 2-mile stretch: 57 secs at an average 125 mph 65 secs at 110 mph 72 secs at 100 mph 96 secs at 75 mph 110 secs at 65 mph Plus some financial savings on fuel and braking systems. So, for example, raising it to a steady 100 throughout would give you a time saving of something in the region of 24 and 38 seconds. Looks like more bang for your buck elsewhere up to now (e.g. raising the limit to 125 from 110 over long stretches, versus raising the limit over this short stretch here). If anyone's got a better envelope, be my guest. (Edits for clarity in italics) Edited December 13, 2013 by eastwestdivide 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 You have also got to include the extra time taken to brake/accelerate either side of the two miles, which will be more accentuated at higher speeds - eg it takes a lot longer to get from 110mph to 120mph compared to 70mph-80mph. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62613 Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 You have also got to include the extra time taken to brake/accelerate either side of the two miles, which will be more accentuated at higher speeds - eg it takes a lot longer to get from 110mph to 120mph compared to 70mph-80mph. Also, it's far more economical to travel at a constant speed than if it's constantly changing. It could be a constant any speed, but the closer it is to the overall average the better it is for fuel consumption engine hours and everything else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 (edited) So, back of an envelope calculation for time taken for a non-stop train, over this 2-mile stretch: 57 secs at an average 125 mph 65 secs at 110 mph 72 secs at 100 mph 96 secs at 75 mph 110 secs at 65 mph Plus some financial savings on fuel and braking systems. So, for example, raising it to a steady 100 throughout would give you a time saving of something in the region of 24 and 38 seconds. Looks like more bang for your buck elsewhere up to now (e.g. raising the limit to 125 from 110 over long stretches, versus raising the limit over this short stretch here). If anyone's got a better envelope, be my guest. (Edits for clarity in italics) And besides all that, with our heaviest freights out of Bardon Hill (some 2,400tons) if we get stopped in the up platform at Harborough it's a deathly long slow crawl to the summit at Desborough. Even with a 'run up' under normal running if we hit the platform doing 60mph on this train we're lucky to be doing 20mph at the summit! Granted, these trains run at night when there's little else about but late running Bardon jobs which are sent south during the daytime cause no end of delays... Edited December 13, 2013 by Rugd1022 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 But when is Market Harborough actually going to happen? So it now seems Nottinghamshire County Council are having to push for it. (Even though the afore mentioned curve is actually in Northamptonshire). last time I went it was still in Leicestershire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan452 Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 last time I went it was still in Leicestershire o.k. stand corrected. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan452 Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 it was costed up a few years ago at £26 million. Deemed not worth the money so now on the back burner as they say. http://www.lutterworthmail.co.uk/news/mail-news/breaking-news-extra-20-3m-cash-boost-to-include-electrifying-mainline-at-harborough-1-6551403 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 So costed at £26million and they are putting £20million towards it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 According to March Modern Railways, the Market Harborough remodelling will go ahead as part of a Growth Deal for the East Midlands. Nottinghamshire must be hoping for a timetable change, as nearly all trains to and from Nottingham currently stop at Market Harborough so won't gain much if anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted March 1, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 1, 2015 It would be easy for those without understanding of railway costs to assume that the 20 million is going to pay for electrification. What? Just through the station? Is this more pre-election hype/ Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 any sign of masts yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCL Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Local paper (Bedfordshire on Sunday) this week (23rd May) had a report from villagers being kept awake due to railway works involving overnight piling to put "poles" in the ground between Clapham and Oakley villages as part of the electrification works. Apparently Network rail state they are starting from Bedford and working northwards. Will take a look this weekend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I didn't notice any masts on 1 Jun, sitting on the E side of the train. There were many rebuilt bridges between Bedford and Kettering. The St Pancras-Nottingham HST reached 120-125mph in places, around mileposts 16, 38 and 45 (all S of Bedford). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 guess the masts will not now be going in as fast? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33270586?post_id=654179347_10153981852774348#_=_ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shed Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Does this mean HSTs for a while longer? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Does this mean HSTs for a while longer? Yes please: still the best stock on the system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RANGERS Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Yes please: still the best stock on the system. Maybe they'll carry out some refurbishment to bring the interiors up to the same level of as the Meridians, especially the lighting which is akin to being at Wembley for a night game! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RANGERS Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 A total closure of the Corby line last weekend has yielded a new facing crossover in position just South of Corby Station, a stretch of the single line (destined to be the up line) has been relayed over the weekend and there is around 50 - 60 yards of the new down line now in place and ballasted either side of the crossover. Piling to stabilise the embankments and cuttings around the former Geddington Station has progressed also but the second platform at Corby, part of the electrification programme, doesn't figure in the current plans. Services will continue to use the single platform, even if a half hourly service starts before electrification. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shed Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 What's happening recently? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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