RANGERS Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Much going on but no certainty as to what it will all mean at the end of it. Corby has had regular nighttime, Weekend and Sunday blockades to allow work on the existing line to continue. Hard to say when you're riding on top of it but I gather there's been much relaying of the current single line (destined to be the up line for most of the way) and piling to stabilise the embankments has continued at a rate of knots. There's a new access from the road to the trackside between Geddington Station and Storefield which has necessitated excavating the cutting walls and a trackway laid to the trackside. Theres another compound at the top of the cutting here in addition to the large one at Geddington. The new down road is now almost complete from the junction North of Corby station to the viaduct at Little Oakley, about two miles in total. There's a couple of lengths missing where signals are to be moved and there are numerous piles of new sleepers along the route ready to be laid. Any signs of electrification progressing have all but disappeared. The newly piled mast bases around Clapham and Oakley are abandoned with no activity in the compounds. The compound at Bedford has some activity but little to suggest it relates to the electrification. There's been a suggestion that there will be a blockade over Christmas and a second one in May next year to see the work largely completed but there's no indication of when the second line will be open for business. EMT have been given a franchise extension to Dec 2018, which is a about a year beyond when electric services should have been possible, but any hopes of a half hourly service to Corby look to have been scuppered before the franchise is re-tendered. Signal and track improvements South of Kettering, which would allow further paths to and from St Pancras, are tied in with the electrification so it would seem that the best Corby can hope for is an hourly service to London with the half hour providing a shuttle to Corby, connecting with services on the mainline. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 It's also difficult to see how any extra 125mph diesel trains might be found to increase the service to Corby prior to electrification. About the only option is to find a few more HSTs for EMT and re-shuffle the Merdian diagrams. The existing EMT HSTs will now have to be modified to take them past the 2020 accessibility deadline, which will reduce the fleet by one (at a time) over a period of year or so. GW HSTs will mostly go to Scotrail, assuming enough of the GW electrification is done to release them, and if it isn't then the ECML fleet may be snaffled instead. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RANGERS Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 It's also difficult to see how any extra 125mph diesel trains might be found to increase the service to Corby prior to electrification. About the only option is to find a few more HSTs for EMT and re-shuffle the Merdian diagrams. The existing EMT HSTs will now have to be modified to take them past the 2020 accessibility deadline, which will reduce the fleet by one (at a time) over a period of year or so. GW HSTs will mostly go to Scotrail, assuming enough of the GW electrification is done to release them, and if it isn't then the ECML fleet may be snaffled instead. EMT already have one more HST than they need, it's currently hired to Virgin East Coast on a daily basis I believe to cover for repaints and refurb of their fleet. That coupled with re-casting the Meridian fleet would probably yield sufficient rolling stock and if a suitable means of splitting and joining Southbound trains at Kettering can be implemented then there is scope to increase services North of Kettering as well, that might give East Mids Parkway a more respectable service to boot. Between 9am and 4pm, there are four trains laid up at the London end, the first of these arrives in London around 08.00 so utilising those would yield enough for the off peaks. The morning peak would only need one additional unit for a 7.30ish departure, although the Northbound service at 9.25 would probably be sacrificed to yield an extra unit for the 8.30 Southbound - The current morning shuttle unit could cover 07.00 and 08.00 departures to Kettering and then run on an 08.30 to London and the Derby train which I believe is the 08.01 from London, could return as the 09.30 departure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) so it would seem that the best Corby can hope for is an hourly service to London with the half hour providing a shuttle to Corby, connecting with services on the mainline. All of our 153s and 156s with new destination blinds have both Kettering and Corby on Edit to make a bit more sense Edited September 28, 2015 by great central Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shed Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Any signs of progress recently? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Any signs of progress recently? See the electrification thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shed Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Or the non electro thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) how is this work coming along at Market Harborough ? Edited January 16, 2018 by ess1uk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shed Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 how is this work coming along at Market Harborough ? setting upsite office when i last went there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Must try to go see how they are progressing at Market Harborough Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Bear Digital Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Must try to go see how they are progressing at Market Harborough If your really into car parks, yes go visit, otherwise don't bother yet. Thread on progress here... https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/market-harborough-station-upgrade.151511/ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 So you can’t do 125 on electric south of Bedford? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Bear Digital Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 So you can’t do 125 on electric south of Bedford? Correct....the masts are too far apart.Alot of dosh needs to be spent before that can happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shed Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 guess that's not going to happen anytime soon then? so new trains will end up running slower than the HSTs south of Bedford that's progress Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Bear Digital Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Will be running even slower after next months timetable change. Even more 100mph Thameslink's to follow. What's that. ..a stone train...yes, put that out in front as well, more the merrier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Correct....the masts are too far apart.Alot of dosh needs to be spent before that can happen. The distance between masts is not a factor in determining the maximum permitted speed of electric trains, It is for other reasons. If they can run on 125mph south of Hitchin on the ECML with equipment of the same design which is even older, then it really ought to be possible to do so south of Bedford if they get their act together... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RANGERS Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 The new timetable is a precursor to electrification, most off peak trains will be running at 70 min timings from Corby, over an hour from Kettering but perversely the peak train timings are 5-8 mins longer with two fewer stops! This pattern is expected to be the norm with electrics, 70-75 minute timings based on 100mph max running. Sadly the potential for that on what’s going to be a very crowded railway is likely to be limited and Thameslink appear to have the upper hand where priorities are being decided. The 17.00 and 18.00 departures are frequently held behind Bedford stoppers turned out in front of them at West Hampstead, tonight was the third time this week and the worst result yet, two red signal stands and continuous slow running. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Off-peak, the fast Sheffields get faster or slower depending on which direction you're going. Typically: Mon 23/4/18 1F21 0958 St P - Sheff arrive 1158, 2h00 with 3 intermediate stops, 31 mins from London to passing Bedford.1C45 1229 Sheff - St P arrive 1429, 2h00 with 3 intermediate stops, 32 mins from passing Bedford to arriving London. Mon 21/5/18 1F21 1002 St P - Sheff arrive 1200, 1h58 with 3 intermediate stops - 2 mins faster, and 30 mins from London to passing Bedford. 1C44 1229 Sheff - St P arrive 1437, 2h08 with 3 intermediate stops - 8 mins slower, and 39 mins from passing Bedford to arriving London. Data from Realtime trains, e.g. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C66558/2018/05/21/advanced Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Bear Digital Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 The distance between masts is not a factor in determining the maximum permitted speed of electric trains, It is for other reasons. If they can run on 125mph south of Hitchin on the ECML with equipment of the same design which is even older, then it really ought to be possible to do so south of Bedford if they get their act together... So the Network Rail electrification guy that rode with me and told me this was wrong. Ok fair enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ncarter2 Posted April 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 21, 2018 So the Network Rail electrification guy that rode with me and told me this was wrong. Ok fair enough. Highly unlikely, but it does seem strange that the two lines use similar construction methods but have speed restriction differences. I wonder if the power supply is a factor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted April 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 21, 2018 (edited) The distance between masts is not a factor in determining the maximum permitted speed of electric trains, It is for other reasons. If they can run on 125mph south of Hitchin on the ECML with equipment of the same design which is even older, then it really ought to be possible to do so south of Bedford if they get their act together... Please remember that the ECML electrification was designed at the outset to support 125mph running by InterCity services so the mast spacing and general design of the OLE would have been set up to cope. The MML electrification was done on a tight budget - AND ONLY FOR 100MPH EMUS. There was NEVER ANY INTENTION for it to be used by InterCity services, particularly at speeds grater than 100mph Yes the two schemes may look similar and superficially use the same kit, but there will have been lots of subtle changes to save money here and there. Extending the mast spacing by only 1 meter might make all the difference in terms of allowing 125mph due to pantograph uplift forces and as such the comment by those who are in a position to know must be respected. I have herd that a similar situation exists on the GWML, where the OLE as far as airport junction was only designed to cope with 100mph EMUs to and from the airport and 800s are limited to 100mph on that section as a result. People forget that the Treasury hated giving British Rail money and the MML being hobnailed by OLE only suitable for suburban EMUs is no different to the cheppo 3rd rail electrification to Weymouth which restricts the number of electric trains to this day Edited April 21, 2018 by phil-b259 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Please remember that the ECML electrification was designed at the outset to support 125mph running by InterCity services Nope. The whole lot, not just the bit to Hitchin was designed to 100mph parameters, despite the linespeed of 125mph. Don't assume that because the linespeed was 125mph that was what it was designed to. Please bear in mind that I was assistant electrification engineer for The ECML and had to deal with it first hand so I might just know what I am talking about... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted April 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 21, 2018 Nope. The whole lot, not just the bit to Hitchin was designed to 100mph parameters, despite the linespeed of 125mph. Don't assume that because the linespeed was 125mph that was what it was designed to. Please bear in mind that I was assistant electrification engineer for The ECML and had to deal with it first hand so I might just know what I am talking about... Interesting Probably explains why the ECML often it has problems / de-wirements / speed restrictions in high winds. I would have thought BR would have been able to find a way of getting enough money out of the Treasury to go for a higher design speed - or was it simply a case that BR didn't have 125mph certified designs available and there wasn't the money to develop such a thing so they had to go with the 100mph kit anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Interesting Probably explains why the ECML often it has problems / de-wirements / speed restrictions in high winds. I would have thought BR would have been able to find a way of getting enough money out of the Treasury to go for a higher design speed - or was it simply a case that BR didn't have 125mph certified designs available and there wasn't the money to develop such a thing so they had to go with the 100mph kit anyway. Pretty much so. Maintenance was difficult. Headspans have only a little scope for adjustment, so if the grading was wrong approaching a bridge you were pretty much stuck with it unless you wanted to rebuild half a mile of headspans. The two most significant factors in the speed capability is tension in the wires, and the grading. Some areas are 'supertensioned' to help, but this is only possible if the structures can take the extra loadings it imposes. Speed reduction in windy conditions is more to do with mast spacings though. The condition of the Headspans on the MML isn't great either, I am surprised they don't have more dewirements there than they do! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RANGERS Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 The condition of the Headspans on the MML isn't great either, I am surprised they don't have more dewirements there than they do! They don’t go fast enough for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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