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I've restarted an old project to build some smaller tank wagons to represent Victorian era wagons. I based these on various pictures I've found on internet websites particularly The Scottish Railway Preservation Society at Bo'ness. The main thing is that these wagon will be smaller than the ones modellers are used to which are the R-T-R models representing bigger ones built after 1923.

 

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This line up of the ends shows what I mean, they have much lower profiles.

 

I've used old Hornby Doublo metal wagon chassis for their weight, strength and see thoroughness, as this is an important feature of the tank wagons at the time, they had no floor. Also they come ready square, a quality that I some times find impossible to build into plastic kit chassis. I have found that I can re-wheel these using PECO plastic bearing cups but they are in short supply at the moment so I may have to try something with bits of small brass tube instead. Other chassis parts taken from various make wagons and kits.

 

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This is a a model of a sulphuric acid tank ( right hand ), based on a drawing in the Model Railway News of September 1971, It's a bit-sa of parts from different kits, Dundass-Parkside side frames, 51L metal W irons, a tank from an N gauge wagon and Evergreen pre-cut strip. The writing on the tank is so well done I may try to devise a paint scheme that leaves it uncovered.

 

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Look no brakes, as the photo of the prototype shows, it seems our ancestors where happy to have several hundred gallons of strong acid rolling about without any brakes.

 

I've found making the ends of the tanks difficult so I used ready made tanks where I can. The upside down tank shows it resting in a balsa wood cradle to hold it firm whilst I drilled the little holes in the frame for the rigging wires. I used a hand operated Archimedes drill and plenty of oil, I didn't brake any tiny drills.

 

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I've found making the ends of the tanks difficult so I used ready made tanks where I can. The upside down tank shows it resting in a balsa wood cradle to hold it firm whilst I drilled the little holes in the frame for the rigging wires. I used a hand operated Archimedes drill and plenty of oil, I didn't brake any tiny drills.

 

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The tender water tank is from one of those static plastic model of some undetermined scale, possibly 3mm to the foot, so a big Continental loading gauge tender is about right for an old style UK outline tender, it sits on frame profiled from plasticard, I used a Historical Model Railway Society article on ancient LNWR tenders converted to water tanks, see the buffer beam added to the loco end.

 

Next to do is to fit the wheels and add the rigging wires.

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Oh Dear, you've done it again. I do find your stuff facinating. well done, I will confess to a certain amount of imitation which I will illustrate as soon as I get some better photographs taken. Or if you don't mind really poor quality photographs visit Turin 60's blog and you might recognise a certain brake van.

 

John

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Hi Relaxinghobby

 

I hadn't thought about using old Doublo wagon chassis when I done these (and many more).

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/61979-hanging-hill/?p=812931

 

I have started to use the Cambrian 17' 6" "One-piece" Skeleton Steel Underframe (10ft wheelbase) C105 instead of trying to get a frame square.

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I did make a tank earlier which used the sides from a Cambrian PO coal wagon, ( you get a spare in each kit ), the inner frame was built up from strip plastic, but I don't feel it is very strong, it may not survive too much rough shunting.

 

The tar tank is the same toy moulding as the white tank above but cut down a little.

 

post-6220-0-90006000-1387310343.jpg

 

I have only discovered Clives thread about tank wagons in the last week, I have also found the variety of tankers interesting.

Edited by relaxinghobby
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The Hornby Doublo  wagons represent a 9 foot 6 inch wheelbase and are 15 foot 6 inches long, a smaller size chassis more suitable for pre-grouping wagons, although some may consider the axle box detail a bit crude.... ( oil, ha ha ).

I like the ingenuity but what Hornby Dublo wagons used that size of chassis? AFAIK HD used a 10ft wb / 17ft6in chassis since before the war.

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attachicon.gifp1010036.jpg

 

This is a a model of a sulphuric acid tank ( right hand ), based on a drawing in the Model Railway News of September 1971, It's a bit-sa of parts from different kits, Dundass-Parkside side frames, 51L metal W irons, a tank from an N gauge wagon and Evergreen pre-cut strip. The writing on the tank is so well done I may try to devise a paint scheme that leaves it uncovered.

 

attachicon.gifp1010037.jpg

 

Look no brakes, as the photo of the prototype shows, it seems our ancestors where happy to have several hundred gallons of strong acid rolling about without any brakes.

 

 

 

Snap

post-9472-0-87300500-1387399091_thumb.jpg

The sulphuric acid tanker at the left hand end came from a Woodham Wagon Works kit with POW sides lettering.  

Best wishes

Eric

Edited by burgundy
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Quote:

Look no brakes, as the photo of the prototype shows, it seems our ancestors where happy to have several hundred gallons of strong acid rolling about without any brakes.

 

Question:

How did they park the wagon to stop it rolling away, a lot of Victorian period wagons had a single long lever single brake shoe system and if the lever is on the far side of the wagon when viewed it can be hard to see. Have you got a photo or a set of plans you could scan in as I've never seen a wagon with no braking system at all, like you I'm embarking on a selection of generic 19th century wagons and have gone down the same route as you using RTR chassis http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78165-cir-1900-wagons-and-6-wheel-coaches-my-humble-bodgings/

 

Keep the reports coming am enjoying them very much. Steve 

 

below is a photo of a single shoe brake system with its very limited under frame detail

post-17847-0-85081900-1387406466.jpg

Edited by Londontram
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Quote:

Look no brakes, as the photo of the prototype shows, it seems our ancestors where happy to have several hundred gallons of strong acid rolling about without any brakes.

 

Question:

How did they park the wagon to stop it rolling away, a lot of Victorian period wagons had a single long lever single brake shoe system and if the lever is on the far side of the wagon when viewed it can be hard to see. Have you got a photo or a set of plans you could scan in as I've never seen a wagon with no braking system at all,

The MR drawing was by Colin Binnie and was based on a Brighton Works drawing dated 1886. There is no suggestion of brakes. It remains a  mystery why Brighton should have built a PO Wagon, albeit a rather unusual one, why it should have had no brakes (presumably a sprag was used on the wheels) or what traffic it was actually used for.

Lots of questions, but no answers

Best wishes

Eric    

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  • 3 weeks later...

My guess is that unbraked wagons were 'spragged' - which is the technical term for shoving a suitable piece of wood between the spokes - when standing in sidings.

 

Actually, it is amazing how badly many early wagons were braked - even after rules came in insisting on two sets of brakes, nothing much happened for years. PO wagons were notoriously badly maintained, as were those of certain companies - no names for fear of giving offence! How trains were operated in an area like South Yorkshire, often with only a brake on the engine the odd hand brake on the wagons, non automatic and often only working on one or two wheels (if at all) and maybe another fitted to a light brake van at the back, I really do not know. Of course, the did occasionally end up as an untidy pile at the bottom of a gradient, but most of the time this was avoided by the skill of the drivers.

 

I shall pass lightly over the LNWR practice of only having a tender brake and relying on throwing the engine into reverse to stop.

Edited by Poggy1165
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I have built the Woodham's Acid Tank wagon too, and I see I've added a single brake shoe to it.  

Didn't seem right without one.  I see I've fitted five link couplings too.

 

Lettering - plain white and Staffs knot - HMRS transfers, White shaded Red, something from the 1980's.?

 

Img_2846.jpg

 

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  • 1 year later...

Finally got the yellow tank in an above post finished. Made out of original Hornby bits and pieces.

Metal chassis new wheels and pin point bearings. Painted and transfers from left over POW  sets.

 

post-6220-0-22586800-1448568724.jpg

 

It's coupled to another Hornby wagon, a flat being revived too.

 

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My guess is that unbraked wagons were 'spragged' - which is the technical term for shoving a suitable piece of wood between the spokes - when standing in sidings.

 

Actually, it is amazing how badly many early wagons were braked - even after rules came in insisting on two sets of brakes, nothing much happened for years. PO wagons were notoriously badly maintained, as were those of certain companies - no names for fear of giving offence! How trains were operated in an area like South Yorkshire, often with only a brake on the engine the odd hand brake on the wagons, non automatic and often only working on one or two wheels (if at all) and maybe another fitted to a light brake van at the back, I really do not know. Of course, the did occasionally end up as an untidy pile at the bottom of a gradient, but most of the time this was avoided by the skill of the drivers.

 

I shall pass lightly over the LNWR practice of only having a tender brake and relying on throwing the engine into reverse to stop.

 

Yes, unbaked wagons would be spragged when in a siding. I often have to do the same with our 'garden' railway!

 

Heavy freights going downhill usually had to stop at the top of the hill for the Guard to pin down the requisite number of wagon brakes. They'd have to stop at the bottom of the hill for all the brakes to be unpinned before proceeding. The skill of the crew was really tested when on a line that undulated as they had to avoid the couplings snatching when the gradient changed – that could lead to broken couplings.

 

The LNWR did start to fit locos with brakes from the 1880s (?), albeit with wooden brake blocks. They were in some ways a remarkably backward company despite Webb's obsessions with compounding etc. 

Edited by wagonman
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  • RMweb Gold

I believe the last of the LNWR engines without brakes on the engines (only the tenders) were the DX Goods (not the rebuilt Special DX's these all had vacuum brakes and brakes on the engine).

The DX Goods lasted into the early 1900 and were active around the Buxton area (And others).

The 1 in 41 gradient up to to Landmanlow yard and back must have been great fun! :O

 

"Throwing the engine into reverse" is also a bit of misnomer as most of the engine classes on the LNWR were fitted with screw reversers.

I believe the crews use to refer to this as "working the treadle".

Edited by Argos
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......The DX Goods lasted into the early 1900 and were active around the Buxton area (And others).

The 1 in 41 gradient up to to Landmanlow yard and back must have been great fun! :O

I seem to recall an 'Urban Myth' from around 1900 in that a signalman took a dislike to a certain DX Goods engine driver (it was due to extra marital activities apparently) and when ever the said driver was approaching down or up the steep grade(s) the signalman would make sure he could keep the relevent signal On until the train was at a standstill, then lower it.

The art was to stop the goods train in time coming down, and getting it going again (although of course it may have rolled back a bit, the guards van being the useful brake??) up hill...

 

There's a similar story about a single line token being handed to a signalman - after once to often stopping a heavy goods train on a up grade then lowering the signal just as the train came to a halt - the token was fresh from the engine firebox, wrapped in sacking....

Edited by Penlan
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  • 1 month later...

 

I've already broken my model railway New Years Resolution, I've started a new project, well I was thinking about it and planning before Christmas but did not have time to start it with all the pre-Christmas preparations so perhaps I've not broken my resolution of not starting something new until the old ones are done. It's two projects actually, not one, well too very similar projects so they could be classed as one.

 

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Some continental models where dismantled, I don't know what make they are, no names underneath but I got them at a toy fair because they had been hand painted and spoiled for the collector. A good source of parts to build up some more early tank wagons. These have the metal brackets attaching the tank barrels to the chassis, hard to model so these nice tank mouldings make a good start. I found the continental wagons where joined together by a mix of screws and glue. Glued parts where gently prised apart with a pair of pointed nose pliers.

 

Tanks cut down in length by removing a centre section, it's hard to get a perfectly vertical saw cut so some filling of gaps will be needed. I've got enough old Ratio and Cambrian kit parts to make up two wagon chassis. The large tank I've got a photo for, the smaller one is more make believe.

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post-6220-0-94046600-1452818741_thumb.jpg

 

Work progresses, here's an update, the smaller tank sits on a Slaters coal wagon chassis, not a Ratio as stated in the earlier post.

 

post-6220-0-75482100-1452818727_thumb.jpg

 

So far the bits in this combination are;

brown = Slaters

black  = Cambrian

silver  = unknown continental

white metal V brake hangers are some old Ken Line wagon detail parts I found in a bits n' bobs box at a toy fair.

 

The piece of wire is there to give strength and reinforce the plastic bits which are always a bit fiddly and fragile

when they are this small.

 

post-6220-0-26010300-1452818717_thumb.jpg

 

Holes and saw cuts in tank filed with strips of plastikard and with a tube of Revell Plasto ready mixed filler.

Edited by relaxinghobby
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Progress. Reinstated the detail on the small tank manhole which I had damaged during de-constructing the original wagon and cutting it down to size.

On the bigger tank it took ages to get it fixed in a central position on it's chassis as the original underneath screw holes where not symmetrical.

Just the usual construction difficulties to be overcome when making kits or modifying them

 

Further modelling. It needs some sort of end bracket between the tank ends and their buffer beams.

 

post-6220-0-83986000-1453323321_thumb.jpg

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post-6220-0-31773000-1453752940_thumb.jpg

 

 

Now it's all finished, the last items of detail added are two stop blocks above the buffer beams,

I guess they are there to stop the tanks sliding of the ends of the wagon if the train stops suddenly.

 

I'll leave it a few weeks for the glue to harden before painting, what will they be? The colour

probably going to be black, I don't think the tanks would have been painted in aluminium

back in pre-grouping days.

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I don't think the tanks would have been painted in aluminium back in pre-grouping days.

 

IIRC the aluminium livery for Class A tanks was brought in just before WW2. They went dark to grey during the war with aluminium being re-introduced after, thaa was replaced by pale grey soem time in the 1950s. Before that, Class A tanks (should that be tanks for carrying Class A products?) were buff with a red stripe round the horizontal center line of the tank and the usual notice about naked flames. Tanks for Class B tanks products were black.

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  • 1 month later...

Black is now the colour for the larger of the tanks, it's going to be FUEL OILS as here and LUBRICATION OIL on the

other side, because that's the transfers I've got left. This I believe would be classed as class B, low flammable

liquids and so the tank can be black.

 

I've got this mottled look by trying to paint acrylic on top of gloss enamel. There's a spot of gloss varnish to hold the transfers down.

 

post-6220-0-04689100-1457295121_thumb.jpg

 

Next to it is a partly built PECO 10 foot wheelbase tank kit, which is 1920's vintage prototype, maybe a little earlier even  a little bit pre grouping?  I'm working from a photograph again, so I filed of the ladder mounting points off. These earlier tankers did not seem to have ladders like the post  WW 2 ones?

 

All that work cutting out sections of the wagon floor and you still can''t really see daylight through the chassis.

Edited by relaxinghobby
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