NGS present day commissions

[Revolution Ben]

Interesting choices. I think the NR Mk2 BSO will be the first to be done. Yellow is big in N - although not with me!  How about putting in a detail etch with the model so modellers can overlay the printed details if they so wish.

 

On a slightly different tangent, is the NGS looking to do more R-T-R models as opposed to kits in the future? And a another suggestion, more of a conversion than a wagon kit though. I saw on another thread you mentioned the farish polybulk  is modelled only a specific type. How about doing a conversion kit  (if possible) for it but with an unpainted wagon and transfers included. An everything in the box conversion kit?

 

Carl

 

 

Hi Carl,

 

The etch idea for the BSO (if that model gets the go-ahead) is very interesting but would probably add 50p-£1 to the price and would need designing.  I'll certainly keep it in mind though - thanks.

 

There is certainly no plan to reduce the number of kits we do but this RTR project is designed to be self-contained and self-financing.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[Carl. H.]

This is a really positive initiative and I would say that Ben and the NGS are to be commended in this venture. From the recent criticism the society has received, this addresses some of these issues in an innovative way and gives members the ability to have an active role in deciding which one from this batch will make it to production. Bravo. I'll take a yellow one and if anyone's interested I don't really have a requirement for one but who said I have to stick to what I model? And another reason I'll buy this is because I'd like this type of member participation to continue to the next project and the project after that where there might be something that really suits me. Isn't this part of what of being a member is about?

 

Anyways, to expand on this concept of choice, as an idea how does an unpainted MK2 or MK1 sound, sold with a paint guide and decals for a particular livery and prototype? This would provide an opportunity to provide more variations and encourage a more hands approach to modelling? The NGS already sells an undecorated Stove R (I have two btw, but no need for them, lol), this would be the same but with decals.

 

Paul

 

 

As a member myself I wouldn't buy a model if I didn't want it or in the hope it might lead to something I want later on - it could backfire on you; more yellow peril.... I like the idea of unpainted Mk.1 and 2's. Lots of possibilities there.

 

Carl

[54Strat]

As a member myself I wouldn't buy a model if I didn't want it or in the hope it might lead to something I want later on - it could backfire on you; more yellow peril.... I like the idea of unpainted Mk.1 and 2's. Lots of possibilities there.

 

Carl

 

Hi Carl,

 

I think there's a big difference in not wanting and not needing I'm sure we've all bought stuff we didn't need, but wanted

 

Paul

[Revolution Ben]

I'm an NGS member and a post-privatisation period modeller, so I ought to be squarely in the target market for this exercise. That said, I'm not sure that I'd pre-order any of these. I'm not an expert on railtours at all, but my impression is that the Pullman and the Riviera TSO would both need to part of a larger set of similarly-liveried coaches that aren't going to be available RTR and which aren't high enough up my personal "want list" for me to commit the time and energy to produce them myself. Again, the autoballaster - which I might be interested in since I saw a Carillion-liveried set at Edge Hill once around 2007 - would really commit me to a set of five, including a generator wagon, which I can't really afford.

 

The yellow BSO is something that I might buy - in fact, 977337 is part of a train formation that I was looking at just the other day (Rail Express no. 124, page 11: three NR mk.2s and a mk.1 generator coach topped-and-tailed by DRS class 37s) but I'm a bit put off by the note in the latest Journal that "some of the unique grill detail will be printed, not moulded". This isn't necessarily a deal-breaker for me: I'm struggling to see where these grills are, frankly, in photos I can find online; and I'm not implacably opposed to printed detail when it's done well. It does make me cautious, though.

 

Ironically, I've spent more at the Society shop this year than ever before. I have a ton of kits on hand: salmons, pirahnas, a shark, detail etches etc. I respect the fact that the Society is doing this and I appreciate it's not easy to find good choices; but honestly, none of these is more enticing to me than the regular shop stuff.

 

Jim

 

Hi Jim,

 

Thanks for your considered response.

 

Googling photos on the web suggests the Mk1 Pullmans run with other WCRC stock - usually maroon Mk1s and Mk2s.  Obviously we can't do a whole train of vehicles but we have to start somewhere.  Indeed, it may well be that if we do the Pullman then another retailer sees the opportunity to do the WCRC Mk1 or Mk2 which would be excellent.  The same goes for the Riviera trains Mk2.  Either way, N Gauge goes from having no dedicated charter vehicles available to having one available, which can be mixed with other existing models to make a reasonably representative charter train.

 

The Mk2 BSO in Network Rail has some small square grills on the lower bodyside on one side only, I believe.  Because this is a relivery, and not a retool, we cannot get these moulded.  However, the Farish Mk1 BG Network Rail generator car has printed grilles, so it would be consistent with other models.  Besides, the suggestion above for etched grilles to be included as a customer fit may address this issue.

 

But of course, if you don't really want any of these models then don't order them - that is entirely your privilege.  We may well have misjudged demand and in that case the models won't be commissioned but at least the NGS won't lose money.  It does mean, of course, that in future we will continue to focus on the steam/diesel transition era where historically sales are strong.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[Supaned]

Could it be that the demand for "modern" vehicles is low because the "wrong" prototypes are chosen? Naturally you'd expect the manufacturers to do the seemingly most popular options , but this is not always the case.

 

I appreciate that the demand is very much selective - whilst one person may have no interest in a particular prototype , another may want a dozen.

[Revolution Ben]

Hi Supaned,

 

 

Yes, you're right - selecting the right prototype is crucial. Previously, retailers seem to have struggled with N Gauge ltd editions, perhaps because they chose the wrong prototypes (eg Model Rail Jet A1 TTA tankers) even when these had done well in OO. And it may well be that we have chosen the "wrong" prototypes, but until you try you just don't know.

 

Ideally we would love to produce lots of new models but that's just not possible. So this is where we start. The four selected have been chosen because they complement other items, and because they look interesting and/or attractive and because most modellers could reasonably operate them; the Mk1 Pullman and Riviera trains Mk2 are steam charter vehicles so operate in mixed coaching stock rakes on steam specials which are not route specific, while the autoballaster and Mk2 can operate with other available vehicles and again could be seen pretty much anywhere.

 

The aim of this is not just to grow the NGS - though that's obviously a factor - but to benefit N Gauge as a whole by making more varied items available and therefore making the scale more attractive overall.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[Revolution Ben]

Hello all,

 

In answer to a couple of other queries:

 

*  Although Dapol are happy to supply unpainted models  - and we have unpainted Stove Rs on sale - Bachmann will not.  We have asked them on several occasions about both unpainted models, and painted but un-numbered vehicles, and on every occasion their answer is that they provide fully finished models only.

 

* In answer to the point about the Polybulk, the version Farish are offering has a single catwalk.  The "other type" has a catwalk either side.  Unfortunately, the Farish model has a completely different profile on the non-catwalk side so trying to convert one to the other is not trivial.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[definate maybe]

_{Great idea but like others nothing that really fits in with any model I would want unfortunately.}

_{Silly question possibly but have you ever considered limited edition locos. Bachmann make some great models but don't seem to offer a great choice of liveries. How about an unusual liveried 60? A dutch/ royal/ west coast 47.}

_{There seems to be hundreds of great ltd editions in 00 but hardly any in N} 

[Adam1701D]

Some recent N Gauge Limited Editions have ended up in the "bargain bucket" at shows due to lack of support - the Kernow GWR Class 60 and Wessex Blue 153 spring to mind.

[Revolution Ben]

Hello all,

 

Adam's right - the limited editions market in N (for modern prototypes) does seem to be both fickle and shallow. Although I fervently hope it doesn't happen, it would not surprise me that much if none of the proposed models reach the required level of interest in time.

 

Of course it may be that we have chosen the "wrong" types but these ones are current, run across the network, are different to anything else and complement existing products. Indeed, I bought Rail Express earlier today and noticed photos of:

 

86259 Les Ross with WCRC charter rake incorporating maroon Mk1s and Mk1 Pullman (calendar cover)

D1015 Western Champion with charter rake comprising choc/cream TSO with choc/cream mk1 and rake of crimson/cream Mk1s and Mk2s (calendar July)

Engineers train including Carillion auto ballaster. (P49)

 

So there is no shortage of inspiration!

 

In answer to another question, there's no chance of the NGS considering a locomotive until we know rolling stock can work!

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

[Bomag]

Some recent N Gauge Limited Editions have ended up in the "bargain bucket" at shows due to lack of support - the Kernow GWR Class 60 and Wessex Blue 153 spring to mind.

 

The problem with limited editions such as these is that unless the locos or stock appeared in a variety of locations there is going to be a limited take-up. So instead of doing models of one offs do limited editions of wider ranging liveries which may not be able to sell 500+ models but should sell 200-300. Take 47s for instance we have had 2 x blue 47/0, 2 x blue 47/4, 1 IC-E and 1 original parcels. So excluding any single livery e.g. 47475 the options would be:-

 

Original railfreight grey + red stripe 47/0 or 47/3

Triple Gray, petrol and construction 47/0 or 47/3

IC swallow 47/4 and 47/8

Revised parcels 47/4 and 47/8

Revised NSE 47/4, 47/7 (but not original NSE as it looks naff).

There could also be countless variations on large logo blue; you could probably do one a year/ 18 months at 350 models ago. It may not be everybody's taste but I would certainly get one of each.

 

One extra thing is that right model needs to be married up to the right livery. The limited edition Scottish LL 37/0 got panned on this forum for this very reason

[Lord Summerisle]

I would have thought you could definitely find enough takers for a SWT liveried Desiro, if you were able to fund it.

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hello all,

 

Just to be clear: there is no chance of the NGS commissioning a locomotive in the foreseeable future; the financial commitment is too great. Also, given that the London Midland 350s are still widely available, and cover much of the WCML *and* parts of the Southern, I can't see that the market would be larger for an SWT unit, which is entirely limited to the Southern.

 

The Kernow 60 is an interesting case: an attractive livery on a prototype that was not limited geographically; so the only reason I can imagine that it has not sold well is that the loco has not been operational since suffering an engine room fire in 2005. This suggests to me that the market is very fickle, or limited, and that there is a general sense of N-gaugers tending to focus on reasons *not* to buy something, rather than looking for excuses *to* get it.

 

The purpose of this initiative is to offer NGS members who prefer to model the current scene (I am studiously avoiding the phrase "modern image"..!) something RTR, as until now products have tended to represent older prototypes. We also want to help develop and grow the market. But if the market isn't there, it isn't there.

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

[Edwin_m]

Electra Railway Graphics offer vinyls for the 450 in SWT livery, and the smooth-sided nature of this unit makes it well suited to re-liverying by this means. 

[roundhouse]

Hi Carl,

 

The etch idea for the BSO (if that model gets the go-ahead) is very interesting but would probably add 50p-£1 to the price and would need designing.  I'll certainly keep it in mind though - thanks.

 

There is certainly no plan to reduce the number of kits we do but this RTR project is designed to be self-contained and self-financing.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

The etch would certainly appeal to me, even if it was to be sold separately (could the etch be used on other coaches - ie have one etch with numerous bits on it that are not just for this coach?).

 

That way ti doesn't add to the price of the model for those that might be put off by this.

 

Ian

[definate maybe]

Hi, sorry didn't mean to open a can of worms with the loco comment.

The fact that you have commented that it may be a possibility if your current ideas work is both sensible and positive. Fair play to you and the society and I hope that the idea does take off.

Back to the original point, as they are limited batches is there a known price difference known between the rrp of the standard bachfar product and your ltd editions?

My choice out of the ones from the list would be the wcrc Pullman.

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hello all,

 

The NGS won't know for certain what the models will cost until the order is placed, however using our current pricing regime as a guide I would not expect them to be significantly different to standard RRP with some discount.

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

[Revolution Ben]

Hello all,

 

We are within six weeks of the deadline for this scheme and the news is not good for those who wish to see the NGS produce a modern image commission.

 

As I've pointed out before, the aim of the project is both to produce interesting new products and to answer criticism that the NGS isn't doing enough for modern image enthusiasts. We have focussed previously on BR Steam/Diesel transition as this is where sales are consistently strongest.

 

To recap, the possibles we are considering are:

 

Mk1 Pullman in WCRC maroon

JJA autoballaster in Carillion cream/maroon

Mk2 BSO in Network Rail yellow

Mk2 TSO in Riviera Trains chocolate and cream.

 

These vehicles can be accurately run with models already available, and none are limited geographically.  In an earlier post I pointed out that in last month's Rail Express there were inspirational photos of three of the four running with other vehicles that are currently available RTR include maroon or choc/cream Mk1s, the Dapol Western and standard Railtrack autoballasters.

 

So far, we have had less than 20 expressions of interest for any of the given choices.  The Carillion autoballaster is in the lead, but it hardly matters as with these figures clearly nothing will be produced.

 

It may be that members are holding back on the assumption that others will order; it may be that our previous decisions have been correct and the modern contingent are either small in number or unwilling to support such schemes. The key message here is please don't assume that others are ordering because, clearly, they aren't and if this project fails at the first hurdle I think such schemes are unlikely to be revisited.

 

The deadline is the end of February, so if you DO want one, or any, of these models or even then please just email the NGS shop before then.

 

I appreciate that the models selected may not be *exactly* what you want, but they were carefully selected to be non-geographically specific so if you're modelling the present day any of them could, in theory, be justified. And if we wish to see future such commissions then please consider supporting this one.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[woodenhead]

It seems sad that despite the excellent RTR products available in N the market for the gauge remains small and the exciting list of commissioned models that emanate from the likes of Kernow or other small companies seem to still be a world away.

[54Strat]

Hi Ben,

 

Hoping this does come to fruition, it really would be a real shame if the outcome is that the NGS drop such present day image initiatives. The numbers are disappointing and thanks for letting us know these figures

 

So putting my money where my mouth is, I've mailed the shop about the yellow one for the same reasons in my previous post and the same reason suggested at the end of your post; to support the Society in this agreeable direction and hopefully grow this initiative.

 

Paul

[grahame]

Yep, a shame about the response to date. Perhaps it will pick up nearer the deadline.

 

From my point of view none of the options excite me or are what I'd be interested in. I've got the Pullmans, Autoballasters, Mk1 and Mk2 so it's down to livery and unfortunately none offered are what I'm looking for. Now if one was to be Network SouthEast livery . . . . . .    . . . there'd be a big order.

 

G.  

[Revolution Ben]

Mickey - You may be right but since RTR models are aimed in part at the train set market I'm still surprised at the lack of interest.

 

Graham - to me NSE = sectorization era and not really what I'd consider "present day." Also, NSE coaches have been produced before. The feedback we had - that prompted this initiative - was that with even EWS being a historic livery now the NGS was "not doing enough" for the large number of members modelling the present day. As one such modeller myself I felt there was some justification in this. If this project had flown then we would have widened it to look at other eras. But even if NSE is your thing then the Carillion auto ballaster is ideal since this livery pre-dates the Railtrack livery, while the chocolate and cream Mk2 could also be useful.

 

There is until the end of February and it may be that interest picks up. And all it takes is an email to the shop, not payment is expected now.

 

If not, at least we tried!

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

[70b]

Hi Ben

 

I have thought ever since this was announced that there would be a clear news item or headline on the NGS front page that states how to respond would be helpful in eliciting more responses, especially as its not especially clear in some of the news items how to express opinion/support. I went there rather hoping to find an email link thingy that brings up the right return address and email title, I know it could be seen as encouraging lazyness in the membership but since your trying to garner support for a new initiative anything that helps is a positive IMHO

 

I.

 

>>>please just email the NGS shop before then.

 

[Revolution Ben]

Hi I.

 

Yes, perhaps there could have been a page on the website but this slipped my mind.  However, all the prototype information is here, on the NG Forum, in the Journal and elsewhere so I can't believe that's the only reason for failure!

 

At this stage all we need is an indication of interest, so just an email with your membership number and what you want to the NGS shop is enough, no money is required now hence no official pre-order form.

 

The email address is easy to find on our website - I am not sure of the protocol of posting it here.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[grahame]

 Also, NSE coaches have been produced before.

 

 

The only ones I recall were the very basic and incorrect variant old style Farish Mk2s and they're difficult/expensive to source second-hand. There's nothing new and certainly nothing of the 'blue riband' quality and standard that I'm aware of.

 

I appreciate that they are 'sectorisation' era and not bang up to date, and understand that this 'trial' is to target a different period. However, as the sectorisation period is being deliberately left out this time will it just get ignored or will a similar 'trial/test' for that era take place in the future? 

 

G.