Hornby Drummond 700

[Robin Brasher]

While waiting for the Hornby 700 to appear there is an opportunity to consider how to model prototype trains and to compare Hornby's model with other models. Union Mills has produced some ready to run models in N gauge. 00 Works has made some in 00 gauge. BEC and other makes have produced kits.

 

Topics could include the liveries the prototype carried, the types of trains it hauled, where the 700s were shedded and where they operated. There would also be an opportunity to post photographs of the prototypes and models.

[Guest Belgian]

One interesting fact about the 700s was that a number of them were still at work a couple of months after withdrawal.

 

JE

[darren01]

HI 

A few of them where fitted with snow ploughs in 1962-63.

[uax6]

Even more interesting is the possiblity of converting them to proper locos......

 

... Caley Jumbos or Highland Barneys......

 

Andy G

(ducking for cover!)

[Big James]

I've just accidentally on purpose ordered both of the BR liveried 1's from kernow. Can't wait now. Had better get building my cornwall based layout.

 

Big James

[Colin]

I've still got a Crownline kit, together with all the bits to complete it (motor/wheels/gears etc).

I was thinking of having a go at building it after Christmas - not now, methinks!

[autocoach]

I hope someone can contradict me but, I have never seen any photographic evidence that the 700's were used on the North Cornwall to Wadebridge and Padstow.

 

I will buy one anyway just like I bought an SECR E that probably never made it beyond Eastleigh. T9 708 is also on the order list. According to the Book of T9's it was not shedded at Exmouth Junction until 1952 so a renumber to 713 may be required.

 

Such is the work of model railway recreation.

[RFS]

A number of 700 class locos were allocated to Exmouth Junction, so I would have thought that at some point they might have travelled the North Cornwall line?

[Ozexpatriate]

Does anybody know, or can anybody guess, what livery the LSWR 700 class will carry in the R3238 (SR 1920s - 1930s) model?

 

I'm guessing they were black. With sunshine lettering, or is this too late (Bulleid/1940s)? (Though I have seen online images carrying an olive livery.)

 

I apologize that I don't know much about these things and can't find the SEMG online website anymore.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Ozexpatriate

[SRman]

As a goods engine I would have expected black livery with the seriffed 'Southern' lettering in gold or golden yellow, although it is possible they could have had olive green ... I'm more inclined to think they were black for most of their lives though.

 

I wonder when the 'black motor' nickname was coined - that could give a clue to the livery for that time onwards.

 

I will certainly be buying a BR liveried one but I would also like to see (and purchase) a pre-grouping liveried version. Hopefully Hornby will release one in the future.

[RFS]

According to Brian Haresnape's book "Drummond Locomotives" the origin of the term "Black Motor" is unexplained. Hornby are modelling the loco as superheated by Urie, the first of which was modified in 1921, and the remainder between 1922-9. So most were therefore done by the Southern Railway and made a substantial difference to the loco's appearance.  I cannot therefore see Hornby producing one in pre-grouping livery as their current form only goes back to 1921. Pre-WW2 livery was black with fine green lining, but subsequently (from 1941) they were plain black with Sunshine lettering, which was in golden yellow with malachite green shading.

[edcayton]

I've been doing some googling on these and they were SO much prettier before the Urie rebuild.

 

Ed

[SRman]

RFS: I forgot about the green lining! Thanks for that.

If they were rebuilt in 1921 then they would probably have survived in LSWR livery for some time after grouping. Certainly there were other types of locomotives that kept their pre-grouping liveries until as late as 1927 (granted that not many lasted that long!!).

Edited December 21, 2013 by SRman

[Guest Belgian]

They would have been dark 'holly' green when first rebuilt by the LSWR and became black in Southern days.

 

JE

[TheSignalEngineer]

A number of 700 class locos were allocated to Exmouth Junction, so I would have thought that at some point they might have travelled the North Cornwall line?

Don't know about North Cornwall but there's a picture of one at Barnstaple Junction at the bottom of this page http://www.semgonline.com/steam/700class_01.html

[phil-b259]

According to Brian Haresnape's book "Drummond Locomotives" the origin of the term "Black Motor" is unexplained. Hornby are modelling the loco as superheated by Urie, the first of which was modified in 1921, and the remainder between 1922-9. So most were therefore done by the Southern Railway and made a substantial difference to the loco's appearance.  I cannot therefore see Hornby producing one in pre-grouping livery as their current form only goes back to 1921. Pre-WW2 livery was black with fine green lining, but subsequently (from 1941) they were plain black with Sunshine lettering, which was in golden yellow with malachite green shading.

 

Not quite

 

The initial SR livery (up till the early 30s) for goods engines was black, with green lining. In the mid 30s the lining was done away with and the numbering changed (although the font and colour stayed the same)

so as to drop the E, B or A prefix (with LBSCR engines having 2000 added, SECR locos having 100, and SR / LSWR engines keeping their three digit numbers). Therefore if Hornby are doing a E prefix number the loco should have the lining (as Bachmann are doing for one of their forthcoming C class releases)

[Dunsignalling]

I've been doing some googling on these and they were SO much prettier before the Urie rebuild.

 

Ed

But a lot less distinctive and with less sales potential in model form.

 

I think the "characterful" looks of the Urie version may have been a factor in Hornby's decision to make it in preference to (say) a Q.

 

John

[Dunsignalling]

Don't know about North Cornwall but there's a picture of one at Barnstaple Junction at the bottom of this page http://www.semgonline.com/steam/700class_01.html

N class 2-6-0s were the preferred motive power for freight on the North Cornwall but AFAIK 700s weren't prohibited so I wouldn't rule out the odd appearance if there was a temporary shortage of moguls.

 

Also, until the WR takeover of SR lines in the West Country at the end of 1962, Black Motors were the usual choice for snowplough duties.

 

John

[Dunsignalling]

RFS: I forgot about the green lining! Thanks for that.

 

If they were rebuilt in 1921 then they would probably have survived in LSWR livery for some time after grouping. Certainly there were other types of locomotives that kept their pre-grouping liveries until as late as 1927 (granted that not many lasted that long!!).

Quite a few T9s that received similar modifications to the 700s under the SR retained their LSWR livery for several years afterwards.

 

The LSWR paint would presumably have been in good condition with many having received full overhauls between the end of the Great War and the Grouping and staff with strong LSWR loyalty would have been keen to look after it.

 

John

[Oldddudders]

I hope someone can contradict me but, I have never seen any photographic evidence that the 700's were used on the North Cornwall to Wadebridge and Padstow.

 

 

 2manyspams of this parish, writing in the revised version of Irwell's North Cornwall Railway book, notes that 700s were "relatively uncommon" west of Okehampton, but that one was often used as station pilot at that station. He also mentions a report of 30691 hauling the 3.13 p.m. "Perishables" in October 1960. So, not an everyday engine by the Camel, but maybe often enough?

[dibber25]

My walk to school started every morning at 8.35am as the pick-up goods, with a '700' from Feltham passed my home on its way back after the shunt at Egham. Two or three vans and two or three open coal wagons would be the load, with a four-wheel brake van. The driver's bike was usually on the tender and sometimes there would be a sack of coal or two on the front of the running plate. I guess these would be dropped at strategic places - probably signalboxes. Certainly, on Thursday mornings he would stop at New Road Crossing box and drop some large lumps of coal off the tender for the signalman. In 1957, on my way home from extra maths lessons (to get me through my 11-plus) there was a loud bang and a cloud of steam as we passed Staines Central station. An up EMU in a classic 'Ding-ding and away' accident, had set off past a danger signal and hit a steam locomotive crossing from the up sidings to the down yard. The loco was rolled over and 17 people were injured, including the fireman. It was 30688, which was, as a result, the first of the 700s to be withdrawn. (Steam World April 2010)

CHRIS LEIGH

Edited December 21, 2013 by dibber25

[PhilH]

I'm hopefully going to get a couple to renumber to 30306 and 30695. My dad worked at Eastleigh shed (71A), my gran lived next door in Campbell Road with back garden backing on to the shed  - this resulted in, from 5 years old, many happy hours over the ensuing years spent on the footplate of the Eastleigh shed pilot which always seemed to be either 306 or 695.

 

Something must have clicked as I'm still fannying around on the footplate nearly 60 years after my first visit. 

[Horsetan]

I've still got a Crownline kit, together with all the bits to complete it (motor/wheels/gears etc).

I was thinking of having a go at building it after Christmas - not now, methinks!

I see that a few are turning up on eBay now...

[SRman]

I have a scratchbuilt loco body in plasticard sitting waiting for a chassis. I claim no credit for the locomotive as it was given to me many years ago, but it now looks like nothing further will happen to it! I have procrastinated for too long and Hornby have stolen the march.

[chris45lsw]

PhilH, on 21 Dec 2013 - 17:53, said:

I'm hopefully going to get a couple to renumber to 30306 and 30695. My dad worked at Eastleigh shed (71A), my gran lived next door in Campbell Road with back garden backing on to the shed - this resulted in, from 5 years old, many happy hours over the ensuing years spent on the footplate of the Eastleigh shed pilot which always seemed to be either 306 or 695.

 

Something must have clicked as I'm still fannying around on the footplate nearly 60 years after my first visit.

 

81C, on 21 Dec 2013 - 20:26, said:

I thought you were older than that !! still not a bad little engine were they.

 

A point to note, if you are fussy, is that the 700s were built with 13 ft wheel base tenders (in fact the only (thirty) Drummond 13 ft wb tenders built). But, as a result of tender exchanges in 1925/26, 20 of the 30 strong class got 14 ft wb tenders in exchange for their original tenders.

 

From 1925/26 Nos. 316, 326, 339, 346, 687, 688, 694, 699 - 701 retained 13 ft wb tenders,

while 306, 308, 309, 315, 317, 325, 327, 350, 352, 355, 368, 689 - 693 & 695 - 698 had 14 ft wb.

 

But 30350 regained a 13 ft sometime after WW2, probably in the early 1950s - certainly by 1957.

 

Although Hornby's existing 6 wheel tender supplied with some of their T9s has the 13 ft wb I understand that Hornby are going to do the 14 ft wb version for the 700. Makes sense as it gives a choice of 20 locos to choose from instead of 10 locos only with 13 ft wb.

 

Chris45lsw