Hornby Drummond 700

[Robin Brasher]

There is some information about the Drummond 700 in Locomotives Illustrated 64 by Ian Allan March-April 1969 Pre-Grouping Southern 0-6-0s. One picture by D.M.C. Hepburne-Scott on page 35 shows 30695 between Furzebrook and Worgret Junction on the Swanage Railway on 21 April 1960. The locomotive looks in good condition with the 71B shed plate and front number plate clearly visible, a late British Railways crest and a white disk mounted above the centre of the buffer beam. It is hauling a rake of about 15 covered clay wagons from either Eldons or Furzebrook Sidings. I cannot identify the brake van but the final one was a grey 25T SR pill box van no 55687. The caption in David Larkin's picture of the brake van on page 252 of Swanage 125 Years of Railways by B.L. Jackson says "bearing the inscription "Not in common use, to work between Wareham and Furzebrook." but the inscription says "..,to work between Wareham and Furzewood." I did not notice this either until Robert from the Isle of Purbeck Model Railway Group pointed this out. I wonder if there will be any articles about the 700 in the model railway press.

[Guest Belgian]

30695 was the long-term BR Bournemouth 700, shedded there from May 1949 to November 1960 (after which it went to Easstleigh as described above) so would have been a regular on the Swanage branch.

 

Other points: they were 'Urie' 700s (ie superheated) for much longer than they were as Drummond intended. They were in fact Drummond's first LSWR design and, possibly not co-incidentally, built by Dübs in Glasgow and were virtually a carbon copy of what had been the standard Scottish 0-6-0 of Victorian days, Drummond having produced them for the North British and Caledonian Railways. His brother Peter duplicated the design for the Highland Railway, his Highland 'Barneys' being built by Dübs a few years after the 700s.

 

The Urie version had its boiler raised by 9" and the cab side sheets to match so converting a Hornby one to the Drummond design won't be too straightforward. I think (hope) Hornby intend to mount a motor vertically in the firebox to keep the 'daylight' effect which is so noticeable in these rebuilt engines (the pre-production prototype photos seem to show this).

 

One thing seldom commented upon is Drummond's standardisation policy: the cylinders and motion, wheelbases, boilers and fittings were common to his four initial designs for the LSWR - the 700 for goods, the K10s for mixed traffic, the M7s for lighter passenger work and the C8s for express passenger work. The latter proved to be a bit feeble so were enlarged to become T9s and the K10s similarly to the L11s. The 700 wheelbase was 7' 6" + 9' 0" and the M7 was 7' 6" and the C8/K10 9' 0" so a 700 combined the two, thus all motion etc was common to all three. since the enlargement to the T9/L11 design was simply a 12" extension to the coupled wheelbase, the cylinders and motion were still common. His later designs were all developments of these designs or very limited-production special designs. Even the initial 4-6-0s, the F13s, were partially standard, having the cylinders and inside motion the same. That's probably what hobbled them and made them so unsuccessful as the outside cylinders were of a new and different design.

 

JE

Edited December 22, 2013 by Belgian

[Ozexpatriate]

I ... can't find the SEMG online website anymore.

there's a picture of one ... at the bottom of this page http://www.semgonline.com/steam/700class_01.html

Is semgonline having server issues? I can't seem to connect with it anytime. (I went looking there the other day before I posted.)

Edited December 23, 2013 by Ozexpatriate

[N15class]

Lets hope they put some valve gear and connecting rods between the frames. As they will look silly without it. There is an awfull lot of emptiness under that high boiler. Shame they did not have one when I modeled in EM, but even then I always built kits rather than buy RTR much more satisfaction.

[SRman]

Is semgonline having server issues? I can't seem to connect with it anytime. (I went looking there the other day before I posted.)

 

No problems from here. Could your firewall be interfering with the link?

[BRs1962]

I see the revised running numbers for the BR versions shown on the Hornby 2014 annoncement thread have the late crest 30693 which was scrapped in 1961, whereas the early crest is 30315 which was scrapped late 1962.  It's a shame they have used the numbers this way round, as it would have made more sense if the late crest version had the later scrapping date?

 

One ordered on the day on the assumption that the error would make the late crest 30346 or 30325, both which fitted with 1962 for me, but will now have to cancel.

 

BRs1962

[Graham_Muz]

BRs1962

 

Before you cancel your order let me double check with Hornby once the Christmas period is over as although I was given the revised numbers I notice that the late crest version is before the early crest version in terms of Hornby R numbers so I might have interpreted the numbers the wrong way round. I will post again once I have confirmation.

[BRs1962]

Thanks Graham,

 

Pre-order retained and awaiting your update with anticipation!

 

BRs1962

[Robin Brasher]

According to page 39 of Locomotives Illustrated no 64 30693 was allocated to Guildford in May 1961 and 30315 was allocated to Salisbury in November 1950 and May 1961. There is a picture of 693 as built with a conical chimney and the initials SWR on the tender on page 14.

 

It looks like 30695 was the only 700 that ran on the Swanage Railway in British Railways days. It has been spotted there from August 1953 to 1961. It should be easy to alter the number from 30693 to 30695. 

[SRman]

I was going to suggest the same thing, Robin. BRs1962, it really isn't difficult to renumber Hornby or Bachmann locomotives. The numbers are easily removed with various techniques all working - I use a track rubber, a friend uses lolly sticks, another uses T-cut. The number or numbers can then be replaced from various sources - HMRS and ModelMaster numbers come to mind but there are several other good quality transfer suppliers out there.

[Robin Brasher]

There is more information about 700s on the Swanage Railway on page 229 of Swanage 125 Years of Railways by B.L. Jackson. He said that Bournemouth always had an allocation of the 700 class reaching three in 1949. Summer Saturdays would always see them working the Swanage Branch. I presume he means taking passenger trains from Wareham to Swanage because at that time I don't think Bulleid Pacifics and 2-6-0s were used there. He goes on to say that they were also used on goods traffic after the Hamworthy sub shed closed.

[Bulleidnutter]

O .

 

I think I'm going to have too many 0-6-0s. 2 Q1s, C class. Now a Black motor.

 

My concern with the model would be the weight over the front drivers. I imagine the motor would be in the firebox which would put all the weight at the rear. Hopefully a nice big lump in the smokebox will appear.

[phil gollin]

..

 

Obvious answer to the problem, buy an "early" and a "late" version and switch their tenders around  

 

A more interesting point is that the Hornby 2014 releases announcement showed quite advanced engineering prototype models of both the 700-class and 2-HAL   -  so when might we expect them ?

 

.

[Robin Brasher]

00 Works 700 with the cycling lion crest pulling a clay train over Corfe Viaduct. The engine was supplied without a number so I could apply the number I wanted.

[Guest Belgian]

007.JPG00 Works 700 with the cycling lion crest pulling a clay train over Corfe Viaduct. The engine was supplied without a number so I could apply the number I wanted.

It's going the wrong way!!!! (Sorry Robin).

 

Happy New Year everyone!

 

Jeremy English

[Guest]

I finally got round to pre-ordering mine from Hattons. I've gone for BR Black Late crest as then it won't look out of place on my Early 60's shunting yard.
Hope Hornby, with their legendary reputation for getting models out on time, don't take too long about getting these into shops! 

Matt

[Graham_Muz]

BRs1962

 

Before you cancel your order let me double check with Hornby once the Christmas period is over as although I was given the revised numbers I notice that the late crest version is before the early crest version in terms of Hornby R numbers so I might have interpreted the numbers the wrong way round. I will post again once I have confirmation.

 

I have confirmation that the numbers had got transposed and that 30315 will be late crest and 30693 will be early crest. I have arranged for the main 2014 thread OP to also be corrected.

[BRs1962]

Thanks for the information Graham. 

[Dunsignalling]

Just found my old Tri-ang/Bec one at the back of a drawer. The chassis came from my very first loco and I never could get the tender to stay on the rails for long. She runs surprisingly well on the rolling road but her driving wheels were made for Series 3 track!

 

I think I need to clear a space my display cabinet if only to prevent me being tempted to rebuild the old girl.

 

John

[Robin Brasher]

David Hepburne-Scot's picture of 30695 reappears on page 5 of the supplement to the February Hornby Magazine. Here the 700s are listed as

R3238 325 in Southern black

R3240 30694 in BR black, early crests

R3239 30345 in BR black, late crests.

There is a history of the prototype on page 6. The Hornby model will have a die-cast boiler so it will be interesting to compare the performance with a Bec 700 and an 00 Works 700. To run realistic trains it should be able to haul at least 12 goods wagons.

[Charlie]

Hmmm wonder how hard it would be to back date it to an LSWR era. After all the superheater upgrade started in 1919, just need to get the correct number! Or are their other things that would need modifying?

[aussiebrfan]

Just had an email from Hattons - On or after 5th of September, so still aways of yet!

Edited January 13, 2014 by aussiebrfan

[Robin Brasher]

Hmmm wonder how hard it would be to back date it to an LSWR era. After all the superheater upgrade started in 1919, just need to get the correct number! Or are their other things that would need modifying?

There is a picture of 316 at Feltham in LSWR livery in 1924 on page 108 of A Pictorial Record of Southern Locomotives by J.H. Russell. This is after Urie superheated in 1920 but before Maunsell modernised it in 1931. Apart from the chimney it looks the same as the Hornby model.

[Robin Brasher]

30690 has been spotted on the Swanage Railway. No further details but I presume that it was substituted for 30695 when 30695 was out of service.

[darren01]

Hi

Had this email from Hatton's  about the 700;  Our latest information from the supplier suggests this item will arrive with us on or after Friday 5th September 2014

Darren