Walton on the hill 27E Liverpool, EM gauge.

[Blacktom]

Hi Michael,

 

I am looking to model Walton on the Hill shed in OO, can you point me in the direction of suitable drawings of the shed that may be available.Any help would be really appreciated.

 

Tom.

[Michael Delamar]

Gents ive been getting some regular requests to provide info for people who may want to build a model of Walton.

 

I hope it doesnt come across as arrogant or selfish but I am slightly loathed to give out info that I have spent a lot of time effort and money obtaining as I did want to build something that no one else has.

 

It is a hobby that we all share info and people have shared with me and I will help anyone with regards techniques, layout building etc.

 

I know John Holden was bombarded by people who seen his Lime Sreet layout and had ideas to do it themselves then he would spend time providing info only for those who asked to become bored and move on to something else.

 

When I first decided to model this location the first thing I did was to ask around to see if no one else was modelling it already. If so I would never have started and chosen somewhere else. This to me seemed to be the attitude of many in the hobby, not to duplicate.

 

My heart does sink slightly with these types of requests and i feel tempted to end the thread and bring it back when the layout is finished and displayed on the exhibition circuit.

Anyone who knows me knows I am not arrogant in this way but I felt I should speak on this.

 

Mike

[chrisf]

Mike

 

I am sorry you feel that way.  Clearly some of those who have come to you for help regard your work as inspirational.  That has to be a good thing!

 

Chris

[Michael Delamar]

I may be being a bit of a snob or a bit of a hypocrite after all one of the reasons I started this thread was to gather prototype info.

[Stanley Melrose]

I may be being a bit of a snob or a bit of a hypocrite after all one of the reasons I started this thread was to gather prototype info.

Mike, anyone who has met you will immediately respond that you as far from being a hypocrite or snob as any I have met.  I guess what anyone who reads this thread regularly might wish to do is contribute by offering how they went about gathering prototype information.

 

For instance, many years ago I went to the British Library in London (during my lunch break when I worked in London) and tracked down details of large scale OS maps covering the area in which I am interested.  I then wrote to the OS and obtained a copyright waiver so I could buy copies of these maps which I did.  I think nowadays this can be done more easily but that's how I did it.

 

I went to the BR offices in Eversholt Street by Euston Station and boldly walked in, asked at Reception and found my way to the basement where in those days all the drawings and plans were stored.  I befriended the guy who made copies of the plans when needed officially and he showed me how to use the microfiche system so I could pick out the drawings in which I was interested and he printed them off for me.  I walked out several times with armfulls of drawings and plans.  Then the IRA troubles affecting London started and security measures were introduced so I couldn't enter the building any more!

 

Over the years since, I have bought many books containing snippets of information and photos to add to my knowledge.  I regularly search the photo collections online and at exhibitions and one way or another have gathered - as you obviously have - the information needed.  Of course, I will always seek more and have offered access to anyone who seems interested in aspects of my collection, including you!

 

I think the best way to deal with the queries that you (and others) receive is to do as I have done above and offer details of where you got information from.  Who knows they may even end up offering some back to you if they only have the patience to start their searches?

 

HTH,

 

Stan

[danstercivicman]

Impressive stuff

[Enterprisingwestern]

Always an awkward one this, we could all sit back and let someone else do the work and then sponge of them, but, as you say, telling people to politely sod off might come across in the wrong way! I personally don't think research time is any different to model construction time, if you made a model you could then sell it as an asset, why not think of intellectual rights in the same way, after all, if you had all the information dropped into your lap at the beginning you would be a lot closer to finishing the layout. Also, to me, research is another facet to the hobby, useful for understanding what you are modelling and why.

 

Mike.

[Michael Delamar]

I think deep down its probably that I think that I found somewhere to model that no one had thought about, then when someone wants to copy it it doesn't sit well.

[jrg1]

Gents ive been getting some regular requests to provide info for people who may want to build a model of Walton.

 

I hope it doesnt come across as arrogant or selfish but I am slightly loathed to give out info that I have spent a lot of time effort and money obtaining as I did want to build something that no one else has.

 

It is a hobby that we all share info and people have shared with me and I will help anyone with regards techniques, layout building etc.

 

I know John Holden was bombarded by people who seen his Lime Sreet layout and had ideas to do it themselves then he would spend time providing info only for those who asked to become bored and move on to something else.

 

When I first decided to model this location the first thing I did was to ask around to see if no one else was modelling it already. If so I would never have started and chosen somewhere else. This to me seemed to be the attitude of many in the hobby, not to duplicate.

 

My heart does sink slightly with these types of requests and i feel tempted to end the thread and bring it back when the layout is finished and displayed on the exhibition circuit.

Anyone who knows me knows I am not arrogant in this way but I felt I should speak on this.

 

Mike

I do not think you are being arrogant or selfish at all. I have spent years researching my area of interest with the intention of building a layout.  I cannot begin to add up the time, effort and money spent on research-I started in 1981.  Site visits, books and photographs purchased, memberships of specialist societies, all for the aim of producing a working model.  I have had requests for information, and always suggest that it would be good to share.  For some reason, this ends most requests.  If my time and effort was added to material purchases in this endeavour, it would be thousands of pounds.  

So, I do think that sharing is logical-don't you?  And if not, how about a contribution for the use of my files?

[Enterprisingwestern]

In a similar vein, I see someone is asking for details of a locomotive today, and seem to be expecting to be presented with all they ask for on a silver plate.

It took me some 18 months on and off to gather enough information on these engines, and about £35 in photographic costs, am I going to give him all my research, hell no.

A small manufacturer already makes a conversion kit for this loco, will he give all his information up to a competitor, hell no.

Is it all something to do with the instant fix society, combined with thoughtlessness and lack of manners?, probably too heavy a subject for discussion here.

 

Mike.

[Michael Delamar]

Suppose I would feel more relaxed if someone said they had a personal connection with the area, like working there or used to go there spotting.

Another thing is its 25feet long and you could fit more model railway into that space.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Michael Delamar

[Ian Smeeton]

I can see the points that you are making, and the reasons why, but I also have to feel a little sorry for Black Tom, the one who asked.

 

1st post on RMweb and the Artillery seems to be turning in his direction.

 

Poor chap must be looking down a gun barrel the size of the Mersey Tunnel right now.

 

I do love your model, though.

 

Best Regards

 

Ian

[PjKing1]

I can see where you are coming from Mike as you've put a lot of time and effort into this project (I actually live a one minute walk from where Walton shed was) but if someone asks me something I take it as a huge complement, must admit I do enjoy the research side of modelling although without the help of others it would sometime become dead in the water.

 

I also agree with Ian as regards to I feel sorry for Tom on this one.

 

Cheers

[Michael Delamar]

Aye I should really mellow out and take a deep breath.

 

I remember Chris Hewitt telling me about when he first started railway modelling he was trying to build a model of Wellington in 00 in his loft.

 

Then he bought the railway modeller and Dave Amius had a model of Wellington in EM, so Chris wrote to the modeller, got Dave's address and Dave sent him all the plans and became friends. So stories like that are nice.

 

 

Chris didnt finish his layout in the loft of Wellington but went on to become an EM modeller and exhibitor. Building his first layout Calne.

 

Chris was one of the ones who tried to convince me not to put anything on the internet, he did also when working on Lime Street. His theory being its better to surprise people at its first show, but I do like documenting whats going on.

 

So ill chill out, help anyone and apologise to Tom. id say that most if not all of the info I have bar some photos have been included in this thread its just a matter of finding them. Model what you want, however Id still encourage people to model a different location I think, there are some great unmodelled places in Liverpool to model.

[TheSignalEngineer]

....................

 Model what you want, however Id still encourage people to model a different location I think, there are some great unmodelled places in Liverpool to model.

Liverpool has always struck me as a goldmine of great things to model. If I was to do something from there it would possibly be Brunswick shed which i visited on the same day in 1961 that I did Walton-on-the-Hill. 

[PjKing1]

Liverpool had some great places to offer Mike, as you know I started ELJ in 4mm and I'll be doing it in 7mm one day, I did look at how Walton shed would look if converted to diesel in 7mm (glad I never haha) but there's loads of great locations

 

I agree with the holding back till it's finished approach to although I don't have the willpower most of the time, I am going to be building a fictional 60's Diesel depot based in liverpool but I'm holding off on a thread until I've at least started it, only because I've had to many false starts.

 

Keep up the good work

[Michael Edge]

Liverpool has always struck me as a goldmine of great things to model. If I was to do something from there it would possibly be Brunswick shed which i visited on the same day in 1961 that I did Walton-on-the-Hill. 

 

I think you'll find that's already been done.....

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Micheal

 

I can see where you are coming from with regard to request for information when you have done a large part of the donkey work. These days I tend to ask someone what have they already got, so I don't send duplicate information. This gives me time to figure out whether it is someone who is copying or someone who is just going down the same path. Those copying tend not to have done much original research. I have also learned to point people to what is available, books, magazine articles, videos and websites rather than send copies of what I have brought, downloaded and photocopied. I do try to remain willing to share my collection of junk but slowly have realised that on occasions I can be wasting my time as a model never appears despite my best efforts to assist.

[Roger Sunderland]

Gents ive been getting some regular requests to provide info for people who may want to build a model of Walton.

I hope it doesnt come across as arrogant or selfish but I am slightly loathed to give out info that I have spent a lot of time effort and money obtaining as I did want to build something that no one else has.

It is a hobby that we all share info and people have shared with me and I will help anyone with regards techniques, layout building etc.

I know John Holden was bombarded by people who seen his Lime Sreet layout and had ideas to do it themselves then he would spend time providing info only for those who asked to become bored and move on to something else.

When I first decided to model this location the first thing I did was to ask around to see if no one else was modelling it already. If so I would never have started and chosen somewhere else. This to me seemed to be the attitude of many in the hobby, not to duplicate.

My heart does sink slightly with these types of requests and i feel tempted to end the thread and bring it back when the layout is finished and displayed on the exhibition circuit.

Anyone who knows me knows I am not arrogant in this way but I felt I should speak on this.

Mike

Hello Michael

 

I do hope I didn't, inadvertedly, start this off with my earlier posts. I am building a model at home,the track plan will be similar (but not the same as) Walton, and it won't be called Walton on the Hill. My reason for doing so are, firstly that I grew up near there and spent many hours spotting around there, and secondly you have managed to come up with a track plan with the operating potential that provides everything I want. I have looked at other Merseyside locations but dismissed them either for the lack of operational potential or not having the right stock, so I'll settle for something fictitious which, hopefully, will suggest Merseyside but won't recognise ably be Walton.

 

Do understand where you are coming from though. I am currently building an exhibition layout of Bournemouth West (see The Bournemouth West Model Railway Group thread on here). We are three and a half years in but most of the first year was spent doing the research. We got copies of the OS maps and used these to produce the track plan, as you did, searched and found building plans and collected, to date, over 300 photographs, it's a long and sometimes difficult task. Love to see Walton when it hits the exhibition circuit, never know we might end up exhibiting at the same one! Best of luck.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Roger Sunderland

[TheSignalEngineer]

Liverpool has always struck me as a goldmine of great things to model. If I was to do something from there it would possibly be Brunswick shed which i visited on the same day in 1961 that I did Walton-on-the-Hill. 

 

I think you'll find that's already been done.....

And far better than I could do.

[Michael Delamar]

I think sticking on all these chairs on ply and rivet points its getting to me, was doing a load yesterday.

 

Must be the glue.

[Ian Smeeton]

Keep cracking on, and not up, Michael.

 

My own Paisley St James Thread is seldom visited, however, it does tend to spur me on, (a bit).

 

I think that if someone asked me for MY info and research, my biggest fear would be that they would get there before me!

 

Best Regards

 

Ian

 

Edit: Sp

Edited April 26, 2017 by Ian Smeeton

[1BCamden]

Great honesty and strength there Michael, as for Walton-On-The-Hill, your commitment to this piece of railway history, and this thread is very much appreciated and followed regularly, as I lived not that far away in my youth. It brings back great bygone memories and motivation to many.

Edited April 27, 2017 by 1BCamden

[Michael Delamar]

This is Stan. Stan joined our model railway club about 6 months ago. He was a shunter and fireman on Rhodesia railways in the 60s and 70s and was keen to learn some new skills.

 

On the run up to our clubs show, Chris Hewitt got Stan to build a small dioramma to show the public how to make grass embankments. We were impressed with his work on his dioramma and as he was keen to do something I asked him to do all the grass on Walton, even if the layout isnt quite ready for scenery.

All this has been going on while I have been adding chairs to pointwork.

 

Pictures are taken over a few months period when Stan was doing embankments from foam, bandage and grass from teased out carpet underlay.

 

The grass is yet to be painted.

 

 

 

 

A test of ballast, later vacuumed away as we're not quite ready for it yet.

 

 

Stan liked to use scissors to tease away the carpet underlay, then seperates the fibres.

 

Most of this end is now done, with the turntable pit partly filled in and overgrown.

 

 

The exteremley short headshunt in the bottom left, part of Dunlops siding I've since learned was home to a Simplex 4wPM. Just enough length before a bufferstop to allow the loco to access its small tin shed building. Im looking to aquire a kit for one of these locos and have it static in front of its shed.

[Michael Delamar]

Work has started on the embankment and sandstone cutting alongside the shed from Celotex foam. To the left of shot and running in to the embankment was a council land fill pile and this will be sculpted into the celotex.

 

Overlooked by one of our older members Norman, Norman was a fitter at Edge hill shed from 1947-60, he worked on everything from Super Ds to class 40s. I like having these guys around to talk to, he knew the fitters blamed in the Weedon crash in 1951. He then went to work at English Electric.

 

 

 

The grass has been growing, Stan has worked up now to the coaling stage area, this is as far as the grass comes on the flat before the embankment and council tip starts to rise. The pathway to the shed and Walton Hall park is marked out and to the right of this will be allotment gardens.

 

 

I also added this Lanarkshire models buffer stop to the headshunt for the Simplex in Dunlops siding.