Introducing Death Steam - we come to praise not bury them...

['CHARD]

First, thanks to Andy for seizing the moment after some brain waves hit B76 earlier today, and facilitating this group so quickly.

 

Second, a bowler-tip to the contributors to the holiday shed-bash topic "A cinder path leads to the shed," for giving that idea legs and making me realise how much there is to learn about this, in many ways unspoken, period of our railways' evolution.  I say unspoken.  But in opening this group, I realise that the transition era, and the concept of Death Steam specifically, has many detractors, makes many people feel uncomfortable, and sometimes acts as a polarising force.

 

I make no apology for this.  I can't help that I was only thirty months of age when I pottered around Patricroft shed, a knee-high guest of steam driver Jack Hassall, my uncle's neighbour from Worsley, Lancs.  But make no mistake, I no more revel in steam's fading years than anyone would at the waning vital signs of a beloved friend.  A friend once so strong and supreme it felt all-conquering, ruler of a network deserving of the epithet 'the permanent way.'

 

As we know, many thousands of miles of the permanent way were anything but.  Hundreds of members here take their inspiration from recreating these lost lines.  But in parallel with this, as steam's natural habitat contracted to a final hardcore, whence the final fires were dropped, there are potent emotions connected with the final hurrah that steam traction had around the system.

 

The S&D went without knowing dieselisation, the Great Central withered as a hybrid, the Waverley and Perth Direct were modernised just to have the off-switch flicked months later.  So, join me in celebrating Streak survivors along Strathmore, Black Fives to Brackley as well as Blackpool, and the inspiration behind Ray Davies' ethereal Waterloo Sunset.  Join the Transition Era exponents in celebrating the men and machines that provided the heart-wrenching finale that was Death Steam.

 

 

 

 

[Allegheny1600]

Good idea 'CHARD old chum!

Thanks to Jeff & Co. of Lunesters fame, this is a vital element to me now. Think battle worn 9F's, WD's and Brits!

Is it to be steam only or do green (or black) diesels get a look in here?

As it happens, I kind of like the idea of a dieselised S&DJR - would have been great with a mix of WR & LMR green diesels pottering about!

Cheers,

John E.

['CHARD]

Good idea 'CHARD old chum!

Thanks to Jeff & Co. of Lunesters fame, this is a vital element to me now. Think battle worn 9F's, WD's and Brits!

Is it to be steam only or do green (or black) diesels get a look in here?

As it happens, I kind of like the idea of a dieselised S&DJR - would have been great with a mix of WR & LMR green diesels pottering about!

Cheers,

John E.

 

Good point John.  If you look what's in our contents here now, you'll see that 'Why is this so rarely modelled' has joined us, as this seems to me to be the signature thread, the backbone that's run through this era for a couple of years.

 

So, yes - it's the whole stage on which Death Steam was played out.  That means we're inherently transition era, and transition diesel liveries into the bargain, just that the spotlight's on the steam locos in the main.

 

Funny how it's all my tick boxes again, hey!

[The Stationmaster]

Having watched it - in various parts of the country - go from what was arguably its apogee to its nadir in the space of barely a decade it was indeed an interesting time to live in.  Clearly for those 'inside the fence' it was a period of major trauma and that was still being felt when I joined the in the latter half of the '60s although my home Region was by then 100% dieselised and doing its best to prevent steamy incursions from its southern and midlands neighbours by tearing out watering facilities with indecent haste.

 

But notwithstanding mass llne closures the railway I joined was still very much the 'steam railway' even if the type of traction had changed and it took BR quite a lot of years, even decades, to get away from the ideas and methods of the steam age railway.  So don't forget that it wasn't just the engines and the infrastructure that supported them but an awful lot more and some of that even lingered into the 1990s.

[APOLLO]

Wonderful era - been modelling this era since 2003 !! "Death Steam" sounds a bit drastic, though its exactly what happened, steam died drastically.

 

Bit of everything on my layout glorified train set, built to recall my teens, the layout I dreamed for in the 60's, but could not either afford or assemble in my Tri-ang TT days back then.

 

 

 

 

The Heljan Lion is way out of date (to early), Xmas present from Mrs. Had to get one though, a beautiful loco. She takes the spotlight (only at the moment) !!.

 

Quite a few other things are "just" out of date (65-68) on my layout, but it doesn't really bother me, stock is easily interchanged, the infrastructure was so mixed also back then.

 

Brit15

 

 

 

 

 

[peach james]

Some of us are still fighting the last gasps of steam...

 

DSC_1562 by Peach James, on Flickr

 

That is NOT me, but one of my mates, Andre Aubry.

 

But, that being said, I fall into the death of steam kind of group too.  Dad also had his gasp at it...

 

8122 by Peach James, on Flickr

 

running steam until 1979, when we left the UK for Canada.

Edited January 18, 2014 by peach james

[Ozexpatriate]

I'm still trying to sort out the grammatical abstraction that is "death steam".

 

It sounds like a booby trap defence mechanism for a hidden entrance to Doctor Evil's secret volcano lair.

 

But if you mean the 'death of the steam railway' then 'ah I understand now'.

[The Lurker]

I was expecting some kind of extreme steam  - in the way that death metal is extreme

['CHARD]

I was expecting some kind of extreme steam  - in the way that death metal is extreme

 

That kinda sums it up for many, I guess.  The extreme emotion and mechanical endurance that symbolised the end of days.

 

I think it's the extremeness of the finality that switches many off, especially those involved with a personal attachment or emotional investment at the time it took place.

[Phil Bullock]

Fascinating times

 

Worcester was one of the last clutch of depots to finish with steam on the WR on 31st Dec 1965

 

A nice digest on the run down of steam in the area is at http://www.miac.org.uk/worcs1965.html - a microcosm of what went on elsewhere I suspect

 

Cheers

 

Phil

[peach james]

Some of us are still fighting the last gasps of steam...

 

DSC_1562 by Peach James, on Flickr

 

That is NOT me, but one of my mates, Andre Aubry.

 

But, that being said, I fall into the death of steam kind of group too.  Dad also had his gasp at it...

 

 

A quick note about the above- the fire (*)  was below the aft end of that area.  Andre was interviewed for CBC, as he was beside the generator that started it.  It's probably the end of HMCS Protecteur.  So, the last time I will have run full sized steam has possibly happened.  (Late November, 2011).  It also means that I likely will have the last MINT cert 3A ticket off PRO with 0.00 hrs steaming time on it.  Inglorious- I'd have rather had the opportunity to use my ticket !.

 

PO2 James Powell, Cert 3A (PRO)

 

(*)  HMCS Protecteur suffered a major engine room fire on 28 Feb/2014, approximately 600 km NW of Hawaii, centered on the port Turbo-Alternator.  20 minor injuries, no serious or fatal injuries.

[peach james]

A quick note about the above- the fire (*)  was below the aft end of that area.  Andre was interviewed for CBC, as he was beside the generator that started it.  It's probably the end of HMCS Protecteur.  So, the last time I will have run full sized steam has possibly happened.  (Late November, 2011).  It also means that I likely will have the last MINT cert 3A ticket off PRO with 0.00 hrs steaming time on it.  Inglorious- I'd have rather had the opportunity to use my ticket !.

 

PO2 James Powell, Cert 3A (PRO)

 

(*)  HMCS Protecteur suffered a major engine room fire on 28 Feb/2014, approximately 600 km NW of Hawaii, centered on the port Turbo-Alternator.  20 minor injuries, no serious or fatal injuries.

So, just to add a last few notes to this, 2 cert 3A's were issued this week to Steph and Steve, although they were issued with the awareness that they will never be sailed...whereas, mine was issued with the intent of it being used.  PRO is tied up awaiting decommissioning, PRE is in Halifax, awaiting a similar fate.  Steam in the RCN is now limited to the 250 barge, and heating systems.

 

James

['CHARD]

St Rollox, from a great new Flickr set, thanks to Mike Delamar for linking it:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/1952sbl/8297699862/in/album-72157632230847227/

[pH]

St Rollox ...

That's not what it says on the caption! Great picture though. Only one of the high flat blocks being built in the background is still occupied.

Edited February 16, 2015 by pH

['CHARD]

That's not what it says on the caption! Great picture though. Only one of the high flat blocks being built in the background is still occupied.

 

An amazing encapsulation of social and economic evolution through one awesome railway vignette.  I love the railwayman trudging behind the engine too.

[The Stationmaster]

An amazing encapsulation of social and economic evolution through one awesome railway vignette.  I love the railwayman trudging behind the engine too.

But such a sad time for a once fine engine - not exactly the sort of Indian Summer it deserved.

['CHARD]

But such a sad time for a once fine engine - not exactly the sort of Indian Summer it deserved.

 

Agreed, and instead the Three Hour Expresses were an Indian Summer for the enthusiasts, MNA, and the men of steel.  A last hurrah played out so far from the normal cameras' prying lens.  It's almost as though Scottish knew this and it was their subversive mark of respect.

[coachmann]

Interesting times - to those who weren't there. The legacy is the videos of light engine movements and occasional steam workings shot by the desperados who only turned up around 1966-8. So you won't see the real lifeblood of the railways during this period; the DMU's and diesel hauled passenger and freight workings, which if shown would really put BR and 'death steam' into its true perspective.

 

But to those who find it interesting, then fine. I say this because the neighbours I accompanied on Saturday mornings in the early 1950s to watch trains were at pains to inform me that I had missed the best of it..........afore't war!

Edited February 16, 2015 by coachmann

[TheSignalEngineer]

I would largely agree with you there, Larry. Being West Midlands raised, steam largely finished for me 1962-1964 with the demise of the Kings and the Duchesses. We had our Indian Summer with the extra expresses from Snow Hill during the WCML electrification until they went diesel in 1962. We had a brief flirtation with the Duchesses after the bridge works were done at New St with some hair raising runs down to Crewe for on five or six coaches around 1963. After that it was not much interest at New Street and a bit of steam freight at through Saltley. Snow Hill had a lot of steam freight and half a dozen peak time locals but traffic through there was declining. 

After I started in 1966, whilst working on track I saw so few steam locos that most of them stick in the mind. On the LNW side there were no more than two or three, although there were one or two most days on the Midland stretch between Washwood Heath and Camp Hill. There were still steam trips on the GW line right up to the end in March 1967, when I saw 45308 at Leamington 3 days before the last steam sheds in the area closed. For us the period 1966-68 was more Burial than Death.

[coachmann]

I left Lancashire for North Wales in 1965 and so I got to see an increase in steam workings, although the summer of '65 was a pale shadow of what had gone before. The outer slow lines from Colwyn Bay to Abergele had been out of use presumably since the end of the Summer '64 timetable. Then in 1966 the goods yards and stations started to close leaving just a handful between Rhyl and Chester. By mid 1967 steam was finished, the last loco I saw being an ex-Crosti 2-10-0 returning light to Mold Junction which passed me while driving for McAlpine during building of the Abergele Bye-pass. It might seem odd not taking much notice of steam locos but it is no different to folk losing interest today and not bothering to turn out to see an elderly Class 20 or 37 on a Flask train or a 47 on a special.

Edited February 16, 2015 by coachmann

['CHARD]

Interesting times - to those who weren't there. The legacy is the videos of light engine movements and occasional steam workings shot by the desperados who only turned up around 1966-8. So you won't see the real lifeblood of the railways during this period; the DMU's and diesel hauled passenger and freight workings, which if shown would really put BR and 'death steam' into its true perspective.

 

But to those who find it interesting, then fine. I say this because the neighbours I accompanied on Saturday mornings in the early 1950s to watch trains were at pains to inform me that I had missed the best of it..........afore't war!

 

With respect Larry, the 'Why is it so rarely modelled' thread and the entire Transition Era forum on here show absolutely the lifeblood of the railways during 1966 and '69.  The railway of the period is shown in all its detail and absolutely puts Death Steam into its true perspective.  

 

I know it's not to everyone's taste, and I could never model the graffiti and weed-infested railways today, the industry that I work in.  But your last point is correct, we always do seem to think we missed the best bit.  Had I been ten years older I could have experienced the Waverley route.  Its dying days parallel Transition Era and Death Steam, and that's where my near-obsession is founded.

[The Stationmaster]

There's a lot of truth in all of these past three or four posts and of course we always se it from different perspectives.  I too started in 1966 and by then the WR was very largely a 'steam free railway' with deliberate efforts made to stop steam encroaching by making sure water supplies weren't available.  Drop down to Basingstoke and it was still very much mainline steam albeit in increasingly desperate straits.  Fortunately I probably saw the best of BR steam on the Western and Eastern Regions with some Southern thrown in but it was a sad period of decline from 1964/65 onwards and much had gone before.

 

But the big thing about it was that it was still very much the old railway, albeit with modern traction and it was in many parts of the country a long way removed from the jungles we see today even in busy places and on mainline routes.  So there was still something to the railway but increasingly for me it was not so much what was pulling the trains but what it was pulling them past.

[Donw]

Mike hits the nail on the head there. The steam railway was much more than just the engines. The whole operating methods, freight handled in wagon loads ( or smaller) rather than block trains. The signalling practices which  haven't yet been fully replaced but the days when a mainline express driver would know that each train would be passed from box to box by dedicated signal men/women have long gone. I have never been a railwayman but have talked to some who were and learned what I can.

 

Don

[faulcon1]

When I saw the title of this thread I was a bit concerned. "Death Steam" conjured images of continental locos with long van type trains transporting thousands of people to their demise.

Yet scrapyard steam is rarely modeled I think due to people not wanting to heavily weather and rust up working models. The only way in 4mm scale is to use the Dapol/Aifix plastic non working models to create a scrapyard scene. Even then only five models can used. The 9F, Bullied Spam Can, Standard Class 4 , WR large prairie and the Schools.

If you wanted to have workmen actually cutting the locos up then one would need to engage in a fair amount of scratch building to show tube plates and boiler tubes.

Although none of us like to think of our favourite classes meeting a hot cutting end. Don't forget that the big four companies and their predecessors cut up locos when they thought they were life expired.

I saw a video of David Shepard talking about the time when he bought the 9F and Standard 4 and he knew that BR was shopping locos for heavy general overhauls only to send those locos for scrap a few months later. 

Being told that 92203 had just had a heavy general and that is was to be scrapped and the trouble he had in getting BR to allow the loco to run to it's new home under it's own steam.

BR first said, road haulage David said no. BR wanted to pilot the loco with a diesel. David said 'well your diesel is bound to fail which means my 9F will have to push it which will do your image no good with thousands of people looking on.  

Eventually it was allowed to run light engine to the LMR.

With BR wasting so much money you can tell it was government owned as they had an endless line of credit......taxpayers.

['CHARD]

Oxenhole 1967, 70016 ARIEL centre stage.

 

https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/77/472/