Czech Railway modelling

[NHY 581]

Thought that those of us modelling CSD or CD could use a thread to keep each other updated with the progress of respective projects.

 

I know several of us either have things on the go or, as in my case, are just getting started.

 

Now I know Ian ( Roundhouse )has Dobris on the go in layout topics but what else is out there ?

 

As others know, I am developing a small layout set in the mid 1990s with a mixture of CSD/CD stock and have already benefited from advice offered by Ian and Marian.

 

So over to you guys

 

Rob

Edited December 28, 2013 by nhy581

[mastanec]

Bloody fights in old Charvatia have made the brothers, dukes, Czech and Lech to think of leaving and finding a new homeland for their folk whom were rather peaceful farmers.

So they got together and left in search for new home. One evening after traveling for many days the company complained they are tired, they settled at the bottom of high mountain called Rip (Rzeep).

In the morning when everybody was still a sleep, Czech has climbed the mountain to see the land around it.

When he returned, everyone was already awake, he told his people: "I have seen a beautiful land where there is no man as far an eye can see, land which is plentiful of milk and honey, let's stay here and be it our new homeland. What do you think it should be called?"

In that moment everyone called out: "Since you are called Czech, let it be called Cechy (Czechy) !!!"

After some years, Lech has decided to leave and found town called Kourim, later have gone even further, and settled in today's Poland.

 

Ancient Bohemian Legends, Alois Jirasek, 1894

 

Today historians believe that Czechs are descendants of Celtic tribe of Boii (lat.)

 

Welcome to Czech Republic, my homeland, situated in so called Czech Basin bordered with mountains from all four points of the compass.

Lets fast forward thru the centuries, dukedoms, kingdoms, monarchies. (Insert dates, and names as found in clever books)

Czech lands have seen railroad first in 1827 and 1830 when carriages on tracks were hauled by horses, first steam powered railroad on normal gauge was built in 1839, from year 1841 the state started building railroads too. The CSD were found after WWI as a successor of Austrian State Railways. After WWII, in 1948 the railways were fully nationalized (there was no, or very, very little allowance for private sector, anyone founding private company in between 1948 and 1989 would get themselves into big trouble). In 1993 Czechoslovakia has separated so did the railways Ceske Drahy (CD) and Zeleznice Slovenskej Republiky (ZSR, now ZSSK) were formed.

In 2003 the company  into CD (rolling stock and transport organization) and SZDC (track and infra maintenance).

In 2007 CD Cargo was subdivided from CD to manage freight transport.

 

Most locomotives and rolling stock are pre 1989 made, there are some new purchases and many rebuilds and modernizations to nowadays standard.

 

I do not know the exact numbers and some may be difficult to find.

Locomotives, mostly diesels and electrics, not all (sadly for steam fans I have no page dedicated to steamers at hand, but there are some impressive pieces, will try to find later):

http://www.prototypy.cz/?ukaz=popisy

 

Passenger coaches:

http://parostroj.net/katalog/ov/katalog.php3

 

Freight wagons:

http://parostroj.net/katalog/nv/katalog.php3

 

Basic Characteristics of SŽDC Railway Network
(situation as of 31. 12. 2012)
 
length of tracks total     km     9 468
construction length of rails total     km     15 532
No. of switch units          24 271

length of Private owned track   km 106

Tandvald - Harrachov was the only cog track, today operated on adhesion only by class 743 (heavier and has larger sand magazines than 742)

All standard gauge (1435mm)

 

JMHD operates 22km of narrow gauge passenger service.

Some narrow gauge railways are in use to date, mostly privately managed and/or industrial. Mostly 760mm gauge.

 

There is a 1meter gauge rail and 1meter cog rail in Tatra mountains Slovakia.

About modeling Czech-Slovak Railways in next post

 

Best regards

Marian

 

 

[NHY 581]

Fine post, Marian, with lots of good information, as usual.

 

A week from now we will be in Czech Republic. Got a couple of trips planned but we are not there for long so time is limited for this sort of thing. Hopefully a trip to Prague and a visit to a couple of shops whilst there.

 

Rob

[mastanec]

Railway modeling in Czech Republic,

There has been always interest of adults and young ones in the puffing steaming machinery of iron ever since railway has entered my country so they tried to reproduce it in scale.

In poorer families starting with pieces of wood joint together and roughly resembling of a train at first. But it did no long remain only with wooden bits. There was a demand for certain scale accuracy and functionality, functioning steam powered engines, slide door, moving cranes... electricity later replaced steam and engineering technologies allowed for mass production.

In the 1960 - 1980 few East German manufacturers did produce some CSD models - ES499.0, T679.1, T679.2 and 2 steams that could have been re-built into after war loot locos that remain with CSD.
Few coaches and wagons was made, but that would be about all.
Yet the Czech folk is creative and demanding so they have helped themselves and started building models on their own, since no one has manufactured the other beautiful prototypes.
Thanks to this we have developed long tradition in self making models out of different materials and we are famous because of this at our neighbors in Germany.
They do not understand why we have to do this and want purely Czech rolling stock when we have the option to buy models of their ugly (no offense intended, but some are not the best designs ) trains.

Since after 1993 the modeling situation is better and international manufacturers have discovered our small market and turned their attention towards us. We have seen some nice models and some disastrous ones, usually repaints of some kind, eg. German or Austrian loco in Czech livery
There will always be problem with purely Czech locos and rolling stock as 99% of the prototype were made under licenses in Czechoslovakia with only small import. This is okay with some freight and passenger cars, but a lot of rolling stock remains not covered by production of manufacturers.
There are some come and go small manufacturers ADA Plastic, LUTO, Vacek, Zerba (yes same zerba as ben-zerba), CS Train, etc. some of these still function, but mostly there are gone now as it it almost non profit to do injection plastic molding of this kind in my country at the current rates (plastic molding of different articles is being done on daily basis by many companies in CZ, but not everyone can afford a mold for model train and if so then due to low quantities the order is at the bottom of priority list, unless you own injection press yourself).

To date we have seen some decent Cezch/oslovak models, lets talk serious now, more precission, DCC ready, 5pole motors with fly wheels, NEM coupling, possibility to fit RP25 wheels, there is no point to spend money for pre 90es stuff, maybe for kids, but it really not worth it otherwise.

I am glad to see interest on CZ prototype outside of Czech Republic, if it will be shown enough we may see yet another model from PIKO or ROCO, maybe someone else.

I, myself model H0 scale, situated in late 80'es just around the revolution and early 90'es when the Czech and Slovak Federal Republic was formed, the topic should be single track main/branch line adjacent to a mainline, so occasionally a train originally be hauled by an electric, but pull over the bit where is no wire by tandem of diesels.
I currently have no plans to built a layout just yet, or at least until I have my own house/aptment/ stable future till then I specialize on rebuilds, kits and scratchbuilding of locos and wagons.

 

Rob is keen to early CD when it was possible to still see a coach or loco with CSD logo and Ian seems to model the era just after him, thats almost like documeting the history, that'll look legit in my better halves eyes  

 

Come on out, those whom are interested in Czech railways, don't be shy show yourselves!

I will gladly advise where needed, google translator is handy, but sometimes translation by person is just better. I will also try to improve my English so I can reduce the word count in my posts.

How good are the Tilling HO CSD coaches guys?

I am looking at the green 2nd class with baggage compt ( cat no 74350) and a 2nd class coach to accompany.

Just looking for thoughts on accuracy, detail quality etc.....


Rob

I took this from Ian's Dobris as those questions are not directly at his layout.

Rob, all, nice comparison of Tillig and Roco coaches here:
http://www.modely.biz/magazin/clanek-rychlikove-vozy-rady-y-v-h0-od-roco-vs-tillig/

 

Those photos show the difference between the prototype well, I am struggling to find a picture from side where both types would be coupled together, if not the originals, then at leas the rebuilts because they have kept the shape of the body.

Tillig has big round corners and 2 stairs, Roco has sharper corners of the body and 3 stairs and is therefore supposed to represent the newer version of the car.
Models from both manufacturers have decent driving abilities, tillig appears to sit a little lower.
Tillig's model is based on old Sachsenmodelle model. Do not swap with Schicht.

I have 2 B coaches (PKP, DR) from Tillig/Sachsenmodelle (still in green boxes) 1 BDs DR that appears to have way smaller windows that the later ones, but on lenght is in scale made by Sachsenmodelle and finally 2 B CSD coaches from Roco with different numbers. I like both roco and tillig , they all have their pros and cons.

The only thing I do not like on the Tilligs are the roof wents, but neither roco has them correct, but looks beter, I will replace mine with brass casts (dont remember if Weinert or Modellbahnmanufaktur-crottendorf). I am also planning on drawing etch detail kit for the steps and some detail addon for both types as soon I get to stand besides the prototype to make pics and take measurements.

 

Tillig model represents early series made by VEB Wagonbau Bautzen, Germany, very similar to those manufactured by RABA Gyor in Hungary which had electric resistive heating.


The Roco model is supposed to represent the later version of German coaches made from 1973 onwards from Bautzen that were supplied to many former socialist block countries.


Wait a bit if you want to get the Tilling coaches, it looks like they are preparing something and that we could eventually see model truer to prototype.
One careful reader found this on Czech forum, compare to the original model it will have an extra handrail (Tilling has been using the original very little modified tools bought from Sachsenmodelle)

compare with previous mold, this is how it used to be, the railing used to be part of the body.

For a branch line, yes you need BDs - a passenger car with baggage compartment and a B (2nd class) coaches . Careful with the A class, you will not find an A on a branch line so often, not even today, that's a first class, on branch-line maybe rather an AB car (half 1st/2nd class) on evening/morning train to adjacent district town (likely hauled by Goggles ).

May 1995, the loco no longer had the CSD logos 2 months later.

Most coaches pre 1993 were painted dark green RAL 6005/RAL 6020, grey roof, black bottom, after 1993 also green white, I do not have the RAL number for that green atm..
Also if you have seen cream-red colored Btn coach in H0 by Tillig, do not buy! this never existed, its juts a repaint of there express coaches. There is currently noone manufacturing typically Czech passenger cars.
Curently only available are the fast train coaches and 010 Btax for 810 railcar, and a kit of Be/Ce with Rybak type undercarriage.
Dark green was used on passenger coaches till 2005 or so, not as main paint but kept on those that were okay. Coaches that got new paint were in green/white scheme.
I really do not like the new "Najbrt" design with different shades of blue, they seem to be experimenting and not really settling on any unified color scheme.

Deffo looking for a service van as well as a couple of wagons....or three or four....

Oh dear...
Rob

I know that feeling, couple or 2 or 3 ...bin der don dat :D
Also what number did you get your goggles, just in case its the same I'll renumber

Marian

Edited December 31, 2013 by mastanec

[NHY 581]

Thanks Marian. The information regarding the coaches was exactly what I was after. Thank you.

Hopefully my goggles will 753 171. No need to re number....Life is too short for all of that.

 

Really quite excited about all this.

 

Rob

[NHY 581]

Calling Marian, I have new toys.....

 

Rob

Edited January 17, 2014 by nhy581

[davep101]

Are they the Mtb ones?

[NHY 581]

Ish , Dave.

 

The 721 at the top is MTB. Bought from Prago models. Very nice model and runs like a dream.

The Goggles is from Roco. This really is lovely. Again running is superb and it comes with etched plates( as does 721)and a lot of extra detailing bits and bobs.

 

Next on the list is a 810 railcar from Bramos. Very expensive at nearly 6,000 CZK, roughly 200 of our British pounds!!!!!

 

I would also like a MTB Bardotka which most think is the better model when compared to the ROCO offering. However, ROCO models are cheaper but with more liveries.

 

The MTB 742 is also on the list but having looked at the prototype and the model I can now see why Marian indicated there were issues with it. However it is still a nice model.

I do not want to start doing kits again so if I want a reasonably priced 742 this is the only way to go.

 

I also like the look of the 770 Hummel. Produced by PIKO already and pending by ROCO. Far too big for what I have in mind but........rule 1....?

 

This looking like an expensive year.....

 

Rob

[mastanec]

Heya!

 

I like your new toys Rob! I see you also have a bit of track laid so you can give them a run, needs to build me at least a diorama with a switch on it or something.

Roco went up with prices in last weeks, the Goggles in Robs post above cost me 145eur, now they are at 179eur in Roco's eshop, MTB Bardot now comes about 30 eur cheaper.

 

I'll be back later on today.

 

Marian

Edited January 19, 2014 by mastanec

[mastanec]

Soooo, I've been really good boy last year and got me a lot of pressies for xmas, I've only been too lazy to take pictures

This will keep me busy for better part of this year I am considering to open a blog, perhaps here on rm web where I will be documenting kit and scratch building of Czech rolling stock.

As you may have already noticed I am very fond of scratch and kit building, below pictures will only confirm.

This year I would like to build that said diorama too, to take pictures of models I made, I've a lot of space for layout, but since I am only renting the house I live in and my future planning for longer than year ahead is uncertain, therefore larger layout is nogo for a while

 

Photo 1

etched detail, from top left corner, then right on bottom following shape of an L

catch point 3xL + 3xR, level crossing multiple tracks warning sign, end of track signal, point lever and signal, mechanical shut signal III-IV era, 2light dwarf AZD 75 signal.

Rest of picture, left to right - set of deatil for freight vagon, brake wheels, locomotive roof lifting hooks, wagon side lifting hooks, grill and full steps for shunter and 2 shapes of boxes for wagon/cargo documentation

 

Photo 2 etched detail by "Detail"

CSD and CD signs (the CD I'll give to first interested person for free), stairs and intercoach gang for Ce/Be "Rybak", mechanical signal and advance signal pack,

steps and detail for classes 751 + 753, detail for cement car, metal buffers and horns

 

 

Photo 3

from top left: 4-axle tank car heating spiral, tank car outlet, tank car filling top and manhole - for Bramos Zas/Ra 4 axle tank cars

bottom wheel axle bearings 59V and etch manufacturer plates for Russian locos

 

Photo 4

resin kit of 730 by BV model, also got new ploughs with holes for coupling cinematics, air tanks, 2 more of these casts on way from Mr. Bek, this is a v1 that I bought a while ago.

the resin truck sides will be replaced with MTB ones (grey piece, bottom left)

 

Photo 5:

now, anyone wanted a decent priced 742, well detailed and good quality? watch this then, bottom is Bachmann Alco S-2 truck with MTB truck side on top, thats a crude demonstration of the axle to axle center is matching (alco s2 8ft wheelbase = 2438mm, CKD diesel locos mostly 2400mm). A Bachmann S-2 complete chassis was purchased to be sacrified for greater good of its far related Czechoslovak sister.

The Alco S-2 are great donors for Czech diesels, only such a pitty the Bachmann's motor is so tiny... will chance it w atlas/rocos S-2 motor or some mashima. Also the S-2 is almost like made donor for CZ class 742 as it is only a 1 mm longer on truck center to truck center (and if you think you have seen an american truck under CZ loco you are right as well, the plans were left to Czechoslovak industry and with some modifications used till late 50es, last loco to use them was class 720 - smaller and older siter of 721 in Robs post above)

 

Photo 6:

a Ce "Rybak" kit from 90-es made model by LUTO, prototype 1939 - 1949, note that the missing stairs and second axle bearing and some small pieces are hidden so i don't lose them.

 

Photo 7:

at some stage I may finish these beauties, 2 will have to leave the house. These locos hold word prime, they are the fisrt ones ever made with full laminate body. hence nickname "Laminatka"

such a pitty noone makes 775/776 (Pomeranc/Orange) in this quality

 

And pictureless, I got and old container wagon PIKO that will be reconstructed to CSD Res/Nas.

I will post a pic or 2 of each project here how they coming up, as well as in said blog.

 

PS: Looking for well paid job in Ireland, can do anything (legit;) )

PSS: Rob, same number on the 753, will renumber, placed order for numberplates for loco from Brno (found 4 that match this livery and so far do not know of anyone from Czech rep. too who'd change number so I may as well be the first 1 ).

 

Marian

 

end of another mega-post

[NHY 581]

Enjoyed that !!

 

Where are the etched signs etc from? I am also after some rail built buffers stops. I have seen some but cannot remember the shop.

 

Rob

[mastanec]

Hey Rob, how was holiday in Cz apart from shopping ?

I hear the weather is not well disposed towards winter sports at all, whilst getiing an echo from friends mum

that next week temperatures will drop below 0deg and it wll also snow... brr

 

The brass colored detail are made by hekTTor, I tried contacting the manufacturer via his eshop but no response,

I spent a while looking for them elsewhere and finally found them in Vitty's eshop. Plus Vitty's eshop speaks english so does he in person

http://www.pojezdy.eu/eshop/203-model-kits-1-87-h0-h0e

He also does etched number plates from nickel silver with custom number, couple of runs per year. Currently no update on new batch orders closing. For a fair price 0.9£

 

The nickel silver ones are made by Detail

http://detail.vyrobce.cz/produkty/index.php?vel=H0

 

I see that in my previous post I've kinda ot finished on how to get "proper" scale 742, check here, I know that you are not too keen to start building an etched brass model, but have a look here maybe you will change your mind, so did I having no experience I've given priority to the etch rather than to a cast.

 

For my 731 I'll stick to the Bachmann trucks but will look for a biger motor than the one from the Bachmann chassis as the kit I got is actually made for roco motor.

 

BR

Marian

Edited January 20, 2014 by mastanec

[mastanec]

Also here 742 weathered, it don't look that bad if its decently done, if it was being sold like this I may be easier to convince to buy

742 MTB weathered by Houmr one day I'd like to learn to weather like this guy...

 

I believe you are looking for something like this, don't buy, build it!!! Its an easy built:

http://mtdepo.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/zarazedlo.html

 

otherwise here http://www.sikulovesro.cz/produkty/zeleznice/stavby/doplnky/zarazedla.aspx , but mind you that for this price you will build yourself a number of track ends - a length of Peco flex track costed me 3£.

Once you start building a layout you will see how many of them you need.

 

There are several types of these in CZ, as above, with buffers, or steel beam, a wooden sleeper over the track, a track ending with a pile of rubble ect..

[mastanec]

one more here

http://houmrovyvlaky.bluehost.cz/Galerie/Doplnky/img00011.htm

 

again by Houmr

[roundhouse]

Does any one do a class 714 in HO?

[mastanec]

Hi Ian, yes, an etched brass or a resin cast.

 

http://cekul.sweb.cz/motorove.htm

 

http://www.modely.biz/komisni-prodej/odlitek-714/

 

the etch looks better tho...

 

 

Marian

[roundhouse]

Thanks Marian.

 

Is there a suitable chassis to fit under either of the bodies, will a Bachmann S2 fit?

 

Ian

[mastanec]

the S2 is an excellent source for locos that have truck wheel span 2400 mm as the American locos have 8 ft which is 2438 mm - perfect, either Bachmann or ROCO/Atlas also I think there may be certain possibility of negotiating with MTB to get a set or 2 of their trucks Alco S-2, S-3 locos are a Millimeter longer than 742. Also any frame fitting will be easier into etched brass model, as you have decent space. 714 has 7600mm truck center to truck center, which is 900mm more than 742, so you would only need to extend the chassis which is easier than making a complete new 1 or shortening it. I am considering making some unified chassis kits for CZ locos that would be compatible for few locos only with adjustable length. At least for the 4 wheeled shunters. Have look at that Picasa gallery in my previous post, I think good picture documentation will say more than 1000 words. Also if you have look on MTB's webpage http://mtb-model.cz/ they have some CAD drawings of locos on the page backdrop that haven't been produced as a model yet - 735 and 714 , however they have not made statement when what will be available. I can try to ask Vitty if he knows anything more. Fro mwhat I knwo for now MTB wants to make mostly locos, wagons and coaches will come later. BR Marian

Edited January 21, 2014 by mastanec

[roundhouse]

Thanks Marian

 

Yes I did notice the CADS on the MTB website and as you say there is no mention of it in their pages.

 

We have some time  before Dobris will be ready to take to shows (October 2015 is the first booking so far) so might wait a few months to see if MTB do announce the class 714.

 

Ian

[NHY 581]

Hey Marian,

The weather was great. 12/14° in the day, sunny. Heavy frost overnight with temp about -5°. We had a good break. Lots of Kozel and very good food throughout.

Nice.

 

Thanks for the buffer stop stuff. That is exactly what I am looking for. I am just napping out a plan which I think will be a mirror image of Bechyne due to the intended home for the layout.

The working title is; 'Some where near Tabor'.

Will not be an exact replica but I hope there will be a ' Heske Ceske' feel to it all.

 

That 742 looks superb. Very nice job. Really lifts the model. As you say I would love to weather a model like this.

 

I am looking to get going on this probably after the summer dud to some building work we are having done.

 

Ian, saw a couple of 714 at Prague with a variety of railcar trailers in tow. Looked very nice.

 

Rob

[roundhouse]

 

Ian, saw a couple of 714 at Prague with a variety of railcar trailers in tow. Looked very nice.

Rob

 

The 714's did (and may still) work a load of 010 trailers up to Dobris and back at the weekends. When we first went to Dobris it was in a trailer and on arrival they shunted some of them into a siding presumably to use them later in the day when hikers  and walkers return from their day out.

 

Another time we were in 010 trailers hauled by a 742 from Cercany to Prague via the cross country route that the Dobris line connects into when the 742 caught fire!

 

Ian

[NHY 581]

Why does that not surprise me about the 742. Saw a very ropey example on one of our trips....742066 I think.

 

I will put up some more photos but I am having issues resizing them. It is me being a buffoon rather than anything else.

 

Rob

[roundhouse]

Just found the photos of the incident at Prosecnice.

 

We were sitting in the '1st class' front window next to the loco but when I saw the flames both of us made a hasty retreat out the rear  door of the trailer. We kept saying 'fire' top the other passengers but they obviously didn't understand English or thought we were mad tourists!

 

Anyway, the crew etc soon put out the traction motor fire with extinguishers. I kept my distance but some passenger got up very close. I waited until the fire was out.

 

Anyway, we didnt mind waiting as the unstaffed station had a bar in the lovely setting in the woods

 

After a while we all got back on board and the train set off to the next passing station where extra help arrived to take us to the junction station.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mastanec]

Hey,

this is Jan "Houmr" Vacek page, he is great inspiration for many Czech modellers, including myself. The pictures he takes clearly document the processes.

 

http://houmrovyvlaky.bluehost.cz/

 

Ian, fancy the burning engine To be honest some of these machines are in use nearly 40 years, low to no maintenance in many cases, often they burn from the exhaust stack thanks to not complete burning of fuel.

And yeah many people coming to close to stare, such a nation on gaper we are: "Oh gosh, the train is on fire, I better come closer and take a look if its really burning!" ...sigh...

 

I drink Budweiser, but the original from Budweis, the American cannot be true original Budweis if they do not have Budejovice! Kozel is nice too tho, the dark I like.

Btw. I got a call for a new job

 

BR

Marian

Edited January 22, 2014 by mastanec

[roundhouse]

I don't touch the American version but the Czech one is good, the dark lager even better as is the Kozel dark - often drink litres of it when in the Czech Republic!!

 

There is a pub in Croydon that sells draught Budvar dark called the half and Half. Often pop in for a few.

 

Ian