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Thanks Paul. I already have the signalling diagram.

 

The Glyncorrwg miners' paddy train auto conversions are in volume 2 of the work cited, which I own. The four-wheelers lasted until 1952 when they were replaced by 3 clerestory coaches of Diagrams C10 and C19. The clerestories were in turn replaced by three short steel top-light all thirds. Of the last, two are preserved at Didcot so I may go up there to take some photos. The clerestories would make an interesting conversion of the Slater's kit. However, for the time being passenger services on the "main line" will be provided by a B set 57XX or 8750 pannier and a Lionheart 64XX and auto-coach. I also have a GWR railcar and a bubble car that could be pressed into service. 

 

The Cambrian goods is being finished in inter-War GWR livery and Chris Basten, proprietor of Dragon Models, is convinced they reached Newport via the Brecon and Merthyr and is sure he has seen a photo of one at Gear Junction. Meanwhile, I fancy an ex-LNWR Coal Tank particularly as a few were on hire to the NCB and shedded at Abercynon in the early 1950s as well as running on the LNWR's Ebbw Vale branch that closed in 1958. 

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Another interesting 7mm thread to follow.  The GWR in South Wales is a much negelected area with interesting workings. In one of the two volumes of GWR Auto Trailers / John Lewis / Wild Swan, there are photos of Glyncorrwg (If my memory serves me correctly).  The miners' trains were old 4 wheelers operated in a push-pull mode, but without a driver in the front!.  I will find the page / volume number later for you if you do not have the book(s).  Anyway, plenty of photos of auto workings in the valleys in those books.

 

Have you seen this Chris?: http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwl/S1894.htm

 

I know you have a Cambrian 0-6-0, but if you fancy 'bending history', you can also have ex LMS types i.e. LNWR or MR if that takes you fancy by modelling a joint line or one with running powers.  

 

I have the complete set of BR(W) 1960 Sectional Appendices for the whole region, so if you ever need any prototypical instructions, just ask.  I expect Stationmaster Mike would advise that things did not change too much from GW days, but I do not think he looks at 7mm pages, so you may have to post in the Prototype section.

 

With a title like Cwm Bach (like it, clever) I most certainly am watching this one Paul - I think I was the first watcher to click like on Chris's first post - and will definitely be keeping an eye on it even if it is a bit big for me;)

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Here is a rough sketch of the layout that is not to scale and carries a string of health warnings and caveats that would embarrass even the most ardent Elf n' Safety officer. However, I hope it conveys the general idea of what I hope to achieve.

 

The colliery kick-back siding behind signal box exits the layout about 2 1/2" above the datum. The basic concept of operation is that in-bound empties hauled by a 56XX or Rhymney R 0-6-2T (Dragon Models kit waiting to be built) run into the platform road. The train engine then runs round, picks up the brake van and deposits it in the short siding at the end of the loop line.  The train engine the reverses to the signal box to await the arrival of full wagons from the colliery.  These will be brought down the branch by an industrial loco - I have quite a few - which will stop at the end of the spur. The points will be reversed and the 56Xx will advance to collect the full wagons and then park them on the loop against the brake-van after which it will pick up the empties and shunt them onto to the industrial loco waiting on the colliery spur. The main-line engine then returns to the loaded wagons on the loop, couples up and waits for the road down the valley. The industrial loco will then propel the empties up the branch.

 

Paul's reminder about the miners' trains on the Glyncorrwg branch suggest an opportunity for some interesting and rarely seen models and operations. Meanwhile, the scratchbuilt signal box, station building and goods lock-up, points (including a 3-way) and most of the signals, but not dummies, are complete. I'll start posting photos over the coming weeks.

 

I am considering extending the head-shunt on the main loop to a second industrial facility that would mask the fiddle yard and provide extra play value operational potenial. I have in mind something pertaining to the steel industry that would provide suitable habitat for one of our Ixion Fowler diesel locos. There are a couple of fantastic photos of a Fowler diesel standing in front of a low brick industrial structure that has a 1930s look, but I can't remember the name of it or find the pictures. Entry to the casette fiddle yard will probably be masked by either a footbridge or pipebridge; I'm afraid - actually I'm not - that I am one of those modellers who tends to make things up as I go along having been cured of any enthusiasm for detailed plans, project management, deadlines, useless IT and all of the other ghastly impedimenta of modern working by the last 17 years in The City of London. 

Regards,

 

Chris

 

post-13142-0-01635300-1388599438_thumb.jpg

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It appears that the point for the loco-release is going to be a Wye point. This is a good idea, as it does save a bit of length and also breaks up the straight lines otherwise seen on the layout. I find that a greater realism is achieved if one avoids having too much straight track and if it is not parallel with the front edge of the baseboard.

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It appears that the point for the loco-release is going to be a Wye point. This is a good idea, as it does save a bit of length and also breaks up the straight lines otherwise seen on the layout. I find that a greater realism is achieved if one avoids having too much straight track and if it is not parallel with the front edge of the baseboard.

 

You are correct, the loco release is a Y-point. The motive was more to break up the parallel tracks rather than to save a little space.  I agree completely that a layout of parallel tracks does not look pleasing unless one is modelling a marshalling yard. Consequently, I may still try to tweak the layout in order to get some more subtle curvature into the design.

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Chris,

 

I think the pictures you are looking for show a Fowler diesel along side the Rylands Brothers works in Warrington.

I have copies of the pictures saved to my PC but I cannot find the link to them.

Since I don't know who holds the copyright I cannot repost them but if you send me a PM I will forward them to you.

 

Regards

chris

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Chris,

 

I think the pictures you are looking for show a Fowler diesel along side the Rylands Brothers works in Warrington.

I have copies of the pictures saved to my PC but I cannot find the link to them.

Since I don't know who holds the copyright I cannot repost them but if you send me a PM I will forward them to you.

 

Regards

chris

 

Chris,

PM sent, but I have found them and here is the Flickr links:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8744455323/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8745576870/in/photostream/

 

They provide great inspiration for a very low or flat relief backscene to a couple of sidings to screen the fiddle yard. As an aside, we have included the Fowler loco's worksplate and "LANCE"  nameplate shown in the photos in the etched brass fret on the Ixion Fowler diesel.

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This is an idea that I like a lot and should give a layout with plenty of play value operational interest and a nice contrast between the mainline and industrial railways. I also like the fact that in Abergwynfi you've found a layout that's not dissimilar to the Iain Rice plan of the exchange sidings from 'Virtue in Industria' which you posted in the Shunters & Shunting Layouts thread.

 

Cheers,

Andrew

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Chris,

 

Interesting plan with good potential, both operationally and scenically.  Some thoughts that I have had:

  1. I like the idea of a second industrial facility masking the fiddle yard.  On small layouts, there is much more interest in freight operations than passenger. A 'B' set or Auto train do not require much operationally.  That is why on my Kelly Bray, there is quarry, market garden and meat traffic for additional interest.
  2. I am a novice on colliery working, but would the colliery company have allowed their shunter to become trapped behind a rake of loaded wagons waiting for the 'Big' railway to turn up?  I know it means propelling down hill from the colliery, but the industrial is free to return off scene to shunt up by the pit head.
  3. Do you have room for two sidings behind the station, with a double slip to provide the link to BR(W)?  That would increase flexibility, with more interchange capacity.  This could be achieved by slewing the whole of the platform line on a curve towards the front.  A second exchange siding would give another reason for my observation in 2. above, as the industrial loco could return hauling empties up the hill.

 

 

Very sensible thoughts in there Paul.  I doubt anyone would like their engine to be trapped especially if it is also meant to be working empties under the screens!  So - and we're not on the big railway of course - the colliery engine might well have propelled the loaded down the bank, but only a few at a time in case they 'got away' on the gradient.

 

Ideally engine leading/downhill end and a release loop would be best but there might not be room to readily achieve that in Chris's planned site?

 

Incidentally I would expect a slightly more 'robust' trap arrangement where the colliery line joins the running line and there would  (should) of course also be a gate at the railway/colliery boundary - which in all likelihood has never been shut since a 56XX slightly modified it one dark night.

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Hi Chris,

 

Looks like an interesting project, will watch with interest.

 

I too hope Lincs eventually return to the market although I have sufficient for my immediate requirements.

 

Alan.

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If you're going for more curves you might be able to recreate a bit more of that 'clinging to the side of the hill' look that is so much a part of the upper and cross-valley lines character and is perfectly illustrated in the photo you initially posted?

 

You've been saying you wanted to do something from around this part of the world in 'O' for ages so shall be watching developments with interest.

 

D

Edited by David Siddall

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Lots of interesting comments and ideas. 

 

The main issue seems to be the problem of the colliery loco being trapped while it waits for the main-line engine to clear the out-bound full wagons and replace them with the in-bound empties. This is caused entirely by my wish to have a steeply graded branch with locos prudently positioned at the down-hill end of the train.  As the main boards are already built, they would require modification to accommodate Paul's suggestion of a double slip and extra siding.  I'll do some moving around if the weather permits me to set up the boards outside this weekend (such is the arrangement until I clear away Boduan Junction). Of course, were the colliery branch level I would have no problem with the full wagons being pushed into the exchange siding and the empties pulled out as may well have been the case for the single-siding access to Oakmount Colliery from Nantyfyllon South ( http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwl/S1653.htm ).  However, that would eliminate the steeply graded line that I feel is essential to create the Valleys effect.

 

Please remember that the sketch is very rough and so excludes details such as gates, fencing, signalling etc. I suspect that the gate will not be a "56XX modified" version as I may want to make it operational in order to add interest. We shall see because as I stated previously, I do have a tendency to make things up as I go along. Thus, the signal box may need to be moved along a bit in order to allow a more robust trapping arrangement. I could move the signal box to the other side of the line, but that would leave a rather boring brick wall to look at instead of the detailed and illuminated interior through the windows, as we shall see in due course.

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Would that be a full set of points with a short, i.e. 30ft lenght of plain track, and either a set of buffers or a sand drag?

 

I rather like the idea of a model of a "56xx modified" gate!!

I reckon that trap point would either be a 'full' trap, that is a complete point lead out, with frog, or a 3/4 trap, where the convergence to the frog (not included) is elevated, and allows the errant vehicle to pass over the opposite rail.

 

Maesaraul Junction (Taff Vale) was protected like this.

 

Ian

Edited by tomparryharry

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Hello Chris,

 

The 'Big Pit' miners trains ran until quite late in the day. I can't find any photos at the moment, but I'm sure there is some film archived onto Youtube.

 

Regards,

Ian

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Hi Chris

 

Just a thought, one way of working the loaded wagons would be for the colliery loco to pull the wagons down the gradient but stop short of the m/l connection, the loco would be uncoupled and stand clear then the wagons would come down to the buffer stops using gravity. Not sure how practical this will be in 7mm scale though.

 

Ian

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A way of giving the impression of South Wales would be (1) an absence of trees, (2) high retaining wall behind station with screens well below pit head gear, (3) and a good drop at the front of the board to create Z. Of course Z is much easier to achieve in N/2mm (eg Chee Tor), but if you can find a way of getting a steep slope front to back you'll get that impression. If you don't warn pit head gear then a line of the ubiquitous terraced houses.

 

I was only once in that area. We were visiting family in Neath and decided to travel home via Blaengwynfi and over into the Rhondda. Daft way to travel from the Cimla to Abergavenny but the Afan valley has always fascinated me and even though I'd grown up in South Wales I had never been in the Rhondda. It was summer. Blaengwynfi was passed through in the rain and the road over the mountain to Treorchy was in the cloud. So maybe some clever staging could give you that South Wales 'raining upwards' feeling I so remember.

 

Looking forward to your further postings. Regards.

Edited by philip-griffiths

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A way of giving the impression of South Wales would be (1) an absence of trees, (2) high retaining wall behind station with screens well below pit head gear, (3) and a good drop at the front of the board to create Z. Of course Z is much easier to achieve in N/2mm (eg Chee Tor), but if you can find a way of getting a steep slope front to back you'll get that impression. If you don't warn pit head gear then a line of the ubiquitous terraced houses.

 

I was only once in that area. We were visiting family in Neath and decided to travel home via Blaengwynfi and over into the Rhondda. Daft way to travel from the Cimla to Abergavenny but the Afan valley has always fascinated me and even though I'd grown up in South Wales I had never been in the Rhondda. It was summer. Blaengwynfi was passed through in the rain and the road over the mountain to Treorchy was in the cloud. So maybe some clever staging could give you that South Wales 'raining upwards' feeling I so remember.

 

Looking forward to your further postings. Regards.

 

Philip,

The pit head gear will be off-scene, so the rear will be a retaining wall, terraced houses and perhaps some steep hillside. I have always been impressed by the high retaining arches on which the B4771 descends into Aberbeeg on the Ebbw Vale line. Simon Thompson has done a splendid job of them on his S7 model of Aberbeeg, but they are probably too over-powering for Cwm Bach. 

 

I don't think there will be much arboreal vegetation, perhaps a few very short and scrubby, wind-carved trees. I also need to investigate ferns. Some trespassing sheep will also add to the South Wales atmosphere. Although I have constructed the two main baseboards, they are heavy and built to dreadnought standards so I may start again once I am happy with the track layout. Two reception lines or a short loop on the colliery branch would solve a lot of operational problems.

 

Regards,

 

Chris

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The 'Big Pit' miners trains ran until quite late in the day. I can't find any photos at the moment, but I'm sure there is some film archived onto Youtube.

 

 

 

Could this actually be the Talywain 'paddy train' that ran from Big Arch - employing ex-GWR and ex-LMS 12 ton vans ?

 

Which, along with the similar Pontardulais - Graig Merthyr working further west, were the last two such trains to operate in the South Wales coalfield.

 

Brian R

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Beautifully executed, but understated building, as befits a remote GW outpost in the valleys.  The use of Humbrol 98 track colour for the faded brown is inspirational. I never thought it was a good colour for track, far too dark and red in tone for old rust and dirt.  It is just how I remember St. Austell in the 60s.

 

How dilute is the black wash for weathering?  I assume it is matt black.

 

 

 

We forgive you!!  It's a very legitimate reason.

 

 

Phew!

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Beautifully executed, but understated building, as befits a remote GW outpost in the valleys.  The use of Humbrol 98 track colour for the faded brown is inspirational. I never thought it was a good colour for track, far too dark and red in tone for old rust and dirt.  It is just how I remember St. Austell in the 60s.

 

How dilute is the black wash for weathering?  I assume it is matt black.

 

 

 

We forgive you!!  It's a very legitimate reason.

 

 

Paul,

The black wash is much diluted, good old-fashioned Humbrol Matt Black 33 enamel paint. I bought a few of the new Humbrol enamel washes to try out, but frankly I think they are a waste of money, do no better a job than thinned enamel paints and are just another way to extract even more hard-earned cash from the faithful.

 

Chris

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Another weathering technique I had heard of was to use watercolour paints. If you stuff it up, you can just wash it off! If you've managed to get it right, spray with matt clear finish and hope that it doesn't change.

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Could this actually be the Talywain 'paddy train' that ran from Big Arch - employing ex-GWR and ex-LMS 12 ton vans ?

 

Which, along with the similar Pontardulais - Graig Merthyr working further west, were the last two such trains to operate in the South Wales coalfield.

 

Brian R

Most likely, Brian. Chuck in one of those big Barclays, and you're on the mark.

 

Ian

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