Cwm Bach - A South Wales Branch Line

[81A Oldoak]

Stunning, I love how the tanks look so real

 

Steve,

The appearance of the tanks is somewhat serendipitous. There are hundreds of half-etched rivets to punch out and this caused some bending along the lines of rivetting. In fact it was quite extreme and I had to solder some scrap brass strip to the inside in order to pull the tanks back to shape. The most difficult parts of construction were rolling the tank tops and, as usual on GWR locos, forming and fitting the lamp recess on the bunker (basically, fill the gaps with half a ton of 188 degree solder and go to work with files). Howevever, I am pleased with the result and it is certainly an unsual and signature loco. Chris Basten of Dragon Models has displayed it  a couple of times on his stand and uses one of the photos on this post on his website. I have one of Dragon's Rhymney R Class locos waiting to enter the production line, but I must work on the layout and get some track down first.

 

Regards,

 

Chris

[tomparryharry]

I do like that class A Chris, I think you've 'caught' it very well. One of Abercynon's pets.

 

Ian

[Poggy1165]

One of the particular plus points of South Wales is that there are some extremely interesting and long-lived 'natives' - mostly tank engines, admittedly, but thus ideal for a small layout. It has always surprised me that, given the high percentage of GWR/WR modellers in the total population, South Wales has traditionally been so neglected. It is good to see this changing. 

[81A Oldoak]

One of the particular plus points of South Wales is that there are some extremely interesting and long-lived 'natives' - mostly tank engines, admittedly, but thus ideal for a small layout. It has always surprised me that, given the high percentage of GWR/WR modellers in the total population, South Wales has traditionally been so neglected. It is good to see this changing. 

 

I agree completely. When you add the extremely dense railway network, constricted locations and great variety of heavy freight operations, South Wales is an ideal subject for the 7mm scale modeller. It is such a relief not having to worry about turntables.  

[br2975]

I agree completely. When you add the extremely dense railway network, constricted locations and great variety of heavy freight operations, South Wales is an ideal subject for the 7mm scale modeller. It is such a relief not having to worry about turntables.  

 

Hence the contruction of a new shed to house my proposed 4mm 1971/1972 South Walian empire aka "Twll Cach"

 

Brian R

[daifly]

Hence the contruction of a new shed to house my proposed 4mm 1971/1972 South Walian empire aka "Twll Cach"

 

Brian R

Hope the layout is less vulgar than its name

Dai Fly

[ixionmodels]

"I have often thought that Australia and Wales could usefully engage in an exchange of place names to balance the former's surfeit of vowels with the latter's glut of consonants."

 

My dear friend and partner in Ixion Models delights in this joke at my home country's expense. Whilst he - Bristol raised - is entranced with all things Cambrian and the musical Welsh language, he misses the point of our Australian place names. They're FUNNY. The many languages of indigenous Australians have given us treasures like Wantabadgery, Grong Grong Matong, Kurri Kurri, Wagga Wagga, Bong Bong, Boing Boing and Burrumbuttock (all places I have been).

 

But I sometimes yearn to have been a pioneer! Someone who got there first and named things. After lauding Mother England (Victoria, Queensland, Newcastle) and local dignitaries (Melbourne) there came a point when they just got fed up.

"What'll we call that flat bit where the cows are?"

"I dunno; call it Cow Flat".

 

I imagine there are a great many Welsh places named just the same way...

 

Lindsay.

[br2975]

Hope the layout is less vulgar than its name

Dai Fly

 

I wondered how long it would take a polyglot to work it out.

 

It's more a 'literal' translation than an accurate one - but hopefully the name will reflect the industrial setting ?

 

Brian R

[tomparryharry]

Hope the layout is less vulgar than its name

Dai Fly

I bet it will have small radius curves.....

 

Ely Paper Mills? or that other factory, above Tondu?

 

Ian

[81A Oldoak]

Cheers. Trying to work out what will fit in the space I intend to use so keep adding these bits up for myself.

 

All the best

 

Keith

 

Every inch or centimetre counts in 7mm scale. I was never so disciplined working in 4mm scale. By the way, since I started working in 7mm scale, I have found that 4mm scale layouts at exhibitions appear more like 3mm scale to my eyes. Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon?

[ixionmodels]

Every inch or centimetre counts in 7mm scale. I was never so disciplined working in 4mm scale. By the way, since I started working in 7mm scale, I have found that 4mm scale layouts at exhibitions appear more like 3mm scale to my eyes. Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon?

The larger scales have that effect! It is something to do with our sense of perception. I think it's related to the 'camping in a tent' effect: if you've ever done it, you'll know that the tent seems quite spacious when you're inside it. Then, after a few days, you pack it all up and look at the yellow spot on the green grass where the tent was and think: "My tent is never THAT small!" If you've built a house, the same effect is experienced in reverse when looking at the slab, and then standing inside the finished rooms.

 

I call it the optimal viewing distance, or The Twelve-Foot Rule*. At normal layout viewing distance - about arm's length - we have a field of focused vision about a metre wide. On an N gauge layout, that equates to about 500 feet - almost a third of a mile. On a 4mm layout it's half of that. However, once you have been working on larger scale models, 7mm and up, what you can see at arm's length becomes 'normal' detail. Whilst three layouts, one in the three major, scales might all be 12 feet long, if from your viewpoint you can't see what you think is normal detail, it looks further away. Smaller. Tiny. The actual detail - up close - might be there, but you can't see it. (And this is why good layout photography is a such a fabulous boon to modellers; you CAN see what's there.)

 

I'm about to embark on a large scale (1:20.3) exhibition layout in a space about 10' x 3'6"; so I shall have ample opportunity to test my own theory.

 

Lindsay.

 

* The most dramatic example of this effect I ever experienced was at a 'blockbuster' art exhibition in Sydney. As a I walked in, I looked to my left. What I saw was a painting that was a mess; blotches and blobs, no rhyme nor reason. I walked away from it and BAM! Everything resolved. It was one of Monet's paintings of Rouen Cathedral - the first real Monet I had ever seen! Though I had taught my students about him for years. I was indelibly struck by the depth of his genius. How, when he painted it at arm's length, did he know what all those blobs and strokes it would look like from three or more metres away??

[Poggy1165]

I used to work in 4mm. When I moved to 7mm, everything seemed massive. Now, after several years, 7mm seems 'normal' - for want of a better word - and 4mm seems tiny. I did a little bit of 4mm modelling last year for a friend, and it felt like watchmaking. I really think it's a matter of what you become used to. 

[3 link]

Every inch or centimetre counts in 7mm scale. I was never so disciplined working in 4mm scale. By the way, since I started working in 7mm scale, I have found that 4mm scale layouts at exhibitions appear more like 3mm scale to my eyes. Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon?

 

I must admit that it has the same effect on me .

 

 

Chris,

 

I too have experienced that phenomenon.  To be frank (and at risk of being expelled from RMWeb!), a 4mm layout also has to have something outstanding to catch my attention; quality modelling, attention to detail, a great sense of time and space.  Because 4mm is THE predominating interest, it has to be special.  For me straight out of the box with RTR track work from a well known UK manufacturer very rarely attracts.  Hat and coat on, and running for the door.......

 

The Gresley beat certainly attracted my attention for more than 5 minutes, I think it is a true masterpiece in the making, but not for one minute did it make me think of reverting back to 4mm.

 

Right now where's the cloakroom,

 

Martyn.

[81A Oldoak]

I took advantage of a rare beak in the wet weather this morning to set up the main boards for Cwm Bach and loosely lay the track to give an idea of the layout and prove that it actually exists. As you will observe, the reality is quite different to my heavily caveated conceptual sketch diagram, but in its current iteration I think it works. The fiddle yard board will allow about another 6" of running line. Some of the shots show the difference in elevation fore and aft of the signal box, which I think will be an attractive feature.  It may be possible to bring the station closer to the front of the board to squeeze in a second exchange siding behind it as has been suggested by some of the followers of this forum. I may also take the head-shunt off the loop with a 6' radius Y point that I have built. This would enable the head-shunt to be laid at an angle that permits easy extension to an installation in front of the casette area.  I will do some fiddling with the track and also post some detailed photos of the signal box when I return from the USA.

 

A question for PD&SWJR on the signalling front: can I justify a calling-on or shunt-ahead subsidiary arm on the main platform starter to control shunts? I've built one and it is rather attractive.

 

 

[steve fay]

Looking great Chris, the signal box looks superb. you might want to move the smoke box door plate down a bit on the pannier though.

[The Stationmaster]

 

 

A question for PD&SWJR on the signalling front: can I justify a calling-on or shunt-ahead subsidiary arm on the main platform starter to control shunts? I've built one and it is rather attractive.

 

To be honest the answer is 'no'.  Abergwynfi didn't have one (nor did it have an Advance Starter although the difference there of course was that the trains to the pit shunted in the colliery sidings).  Taking Cwm Bach as you have developed it I would think it possible that it might have an Advance Starter in order to, principally, limit shunting moves but such signals were not a common feature on the lesser branches in the Valleys and neither were additional Home Signals - in other words shunting into single sections seems to have been commonplace without any additional signal provision.

 

But you can always rely on Rule 1 and do whatever you like (provided it looks right) while accepting that it is not commonplace.

[81A Oldoak]

To be honest the answer is 'no'.  Abergwynfi didn't have one (nor did it have an Advance Starter although the difference there of course was that the trains to the pit shunted in the colliery sidings).  Taking Cwm Bach as you have developed it I would think it possible that it might have an Advance Starter in order to, principally, limit shunting moves but such signals were not a common feature on the lesser branches in the Valleys and neither were additional Home Signals - in other words shunting into single sections seems to have been commonplace without any additional signal provision.

 

But you can always rely on Rule 1 and do whatever you like (provided it looks right) while accepting that it is not commonplace.

 

Thanks Mike. I'll mull it over, but suspect I'll go for the subsidiary arm. Of course, if this were the North Eastern Railway there would be a veritable forest of signals to control every possible move including, no doubt, use of the signalman's privy. 

[Andrew Young]

Looks great, the photos show the amount of space you've got to play with and I don't think you want to put any more travk on otherwise it will look too crowded.

 

The addition of a private siding in front of the fiddle yard will add some interest, is it possible to make that drop down grade away from the station?

 

As for comments about the industrial loco hanging round waiting for the empty wagons, the thread on Bersham Colliery has an operating sequence where they do: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/71150-bersham-colliery-sidings-an-ideal-subject-for-a-model/

 

Cheers,

Andrew

[Coombe Barton]

From http://www.geiriadur.net/index.php?page=ateb&term=cwm&direction=we&type=all&whichpart=exact and http://www.geiriadur.net/index.php?page=ateb&term=bach&direction=we&type=all&whichpart=exact

 

 

cwm = valley

bach = small

[The Stationmaster]

From http://www.geiriadur.net/index.php?page=ateb&term=cwm&direction=we&type=all&whichpart=exact and http://www.geiriadur.net/index.php?page=ateb&term=bach&direction=we&type=all&whichpart=exact

 

 

cwm = valley

bach = small

 

Normall the word 'fach' seems to be used in relation to geographical features, e.g Rhondda Fach (the small or little Rhondda Valley as compared with Rhondda Fawr - the main or larger Rhondda Valley).

 

I thought 'bach' was a diminutive used when talking of a friend etc but might well be wrong on that.

[Coombe Barton]

There's several places called Cwm Bach in mid Wales, so not confined to a person. The dictionary above doesn't have fach as a word

[The Stationmaster]

 

This raises a few questions:

• Why was signal provision more 'sparse' in some S.Wales valley locations?
• Was there any guiding principle in the provision of Shunt ahead signals at BLTs?
• At Abergwynfi, #2 is down main to loop, yet it appears to be a move that would not be that common, so why was it provided?

 

Going in reverse order the provision of arm No.2 in such a situation wasn't unique and is technically one option which could be used in that situation (the other is a disc of course) and was quite possibly a result of the way the local S&T Inspector ordered a replacement signal for one where a centre pivot arm had been used to read into the siding/loop.  That apart I can't offer any further explanation.

 

As far as Shunt Aheads are concerned the guiding principle probably changed over the years.  Prior to the Great War there was a decision that such signals should be provided wherever it was regularly necessary to shunt into the section and there was a likelihood that a train could inadvertently start away instead of just making the shunt move - I don't think Abergwnfi was likely to be in that category.   Certainly the provision of Shunt Aheads on single lines was fairly patchy, including at places where shunting regularly took place and I get the impression (from the evidence of photos etc) that the South Wales Districts don't seem to have been users of them on lesser lines although in many instances I suspect the gradient was possibly as much a factor as anything else.  Technically of course there was no need for the physical provision of a signal arm to authorise a Shunt Ahead movement and taht would certainly have been taken into account if the Section Signal was near the signalbox or in rear of it.

 

Signal provision on the Valleys was probably a consequence of the era in which it changed.  Mckenzie & Holland were the Taff Vale's signalling contractor and also supplied kit to some of the other Companies and there is little doubt that when the GWR came across forests of signals they set-to to reduce.  But at the same time shunting signal provision seemed to have been fairly limited in some places in Pre-Group days and the GW put them in if a full frame renewal was undertaken.  Signalling at some places was quite lavish - Senghenydd being a good example, both Pre and Post Group.

Edited January 9, 2014 by The Stationmaster

[The Stationmaster]

There's several places called Cwm Bach in mid Wales, so not confined to a person. The dictionary above doesn't have fach as a word

 

Interesting - and one of the online translators gives the same result for fach and bach.

[Fat Controller]

There's several places called Cwm Bach in mid Wales, so not confined to a person. The dictionary above doesn't have fach as a word

 

Interesting - and one of the online translators gives the same result for fach and bach.

Bach is the normal form; it mutates to fach under certain circumstances; the same happens with fawr and mawr. Unfortunately, the rules concerning mutations are somewhat arcane, rather like the offside rule in football (or who gets the penalty when the ball doesn't come out of a tackle in rugby)

[Simond]

Time for a South Wales loco interlude. Here are some shots of my Taff Vale A Class 0-6-2T.It is built from the Dragon Models kit, which inludes a single cast resin part for the smoke-box, boiler and firebox that much simplifies and speeds construction. The chassis is fitted with three-point compensation on the front two axles. It needs some more ballast weight and in due course will be weathered.

Chris

 

the loco's lovely.  You mention that you have three point compensation using the two front axles, so I suspect a rocking beam.  What did you do with the truck, which I suspect would have been radial on the real thing - indeed as it appears on your model?  Is it actually a well disguised pony truck, or is there some other means of suspension/control employed?

 

best

SD