Ballasting without tears?.on thin sleeper track

[gordon s]

Since starting ET years ago, I've had some positive comments on the track and ballasting and several people have wondered how it was done, so here is a picture tutorial showing an alternative method to the tried and trusted method many use of laying the ballast and then spraying with dilute PVA.  Clearly it works for many, but personally, I failed miserably.  I couldn't get a clean finish, ended up with ballast in all the wrong places and when it came to spraying, it went everywhere.  Left it all for a couple of days to dry and once set, I found I had successfully gummed up all the moving parts in pointwork.  I lost count of the hours I spent trying to achieve the impossible, but the Capt Kernow came to the rescue and explained his method of painting PVA between the sleepers.

 

I have to say at the outset I thought he was bonkers and whilst it might be OK for a 4' x 1' shunting plank, I dismissed it as a bit daft for an 18' square room with hundreds of feet of track to ballast.  

 

It took several more attempts and spectacular failures for me to reconsider and once I had tried the CK method, I was hooked.  So easy to do, no rework involved and no waiting days for everything to dry out.  Of course you have to let the PVA dry before you go prodding it, but now we're talking a couple of hours, not a couple of days.

 

I still don't trust myself with PVA in pointwork, so there I finish the turnout first, carefully mark it's position, paint on the PVA and then place the turnout into the wet PVA.  Once you are happy it is in the correct position, then sprinkle on the ballast and immediately vacuum up the excess.  No gummed up parts and ballast in every nook and cranny.  The only down side to this method on pointwork is that it can look as though the turnout is floating on the ballast, rather than set into it.  To disguise this look, I have now started to add additional ballast to the outside edge only.  This makes it look more bedded in, but keeps ballast and glue away from the moving parts.

 

So here is the method in pictures...

 

Component parts.  A small dish, a good quality small paintbrush and some painted and wired track.

 

 

Dip the brush in the PVA, which should be the consistency of thick cream and paint a good dollop of PVA under the rail and then into the middle of the sleeper gap.  Try not to get PVA on the rail itself.  A good quality brush will allow you to go under the rail, without getting glue on the rails side.

 

 

Continue along the track for around 300mm

 

 

At this point, you can either lean across the track or go round the other side of the board, but repeat the process, starting under the rail and moving back to the centre of the sleeper gap.  I start the other side from the last gap I have half filled and work my way back to the start.  You will then have a length of track with all the centre gaps filled, like so.

 

 

I use Woodland Scenics Grey Blend ballast in Fine grade.  I'm still torn between the fine and medium as medium looks too large and fine too small, so I will probably finally go with a mix of both.  Sprinkle the ballast over the wet PVA.  Not tons of it, just sufficient to cover the PVA.

 

 

Vacuum up the excess immediately.  I have quite a powerful vacuum cleaner, so use a double layer of a cotton handkerchief over the end to collect the ballast and stop all the glued ballast being pulled out of the PVA.  It's all a bit of trial and error at this stage.  I find a gap of around 15mm above the track works for me.

 

 

…and that's the middle done.

 

Now to the outside.  Start by doing the sleeper gap first..

 

 

…and then the ballast shoulder..

 

 

..work your way down as before..

 

 

…add the ballast..

 

 

…and that's one side..

 

 

Repeat the whole process on the other side and that's it, job done!  No mess and no rework.

 

 

 

The final job for me is to add the track cess and then weather the ballast and track with a dirt/oil mix applied with an airbrush.

 

As I said at the outset, if the traditional methods work for you, fine, but if like me ballasting is an absolute nightmare, put on some music and grab a glass of wine and give it a try.  I find about an hour at one go is enough for me, but then you can move onto something else before going back again.

 

If you want to see more pics of track and pointwork ballasted by this method, feel free to visit ET on the link in my signature.  The newest posts have several pics of complete track complexes.

 

Edit:  To give you an idea of time taken, the first pic was taken at 14.54 and the last 15.11, so that's 17 minutes to do about 10" including the time to stop and take the pics.  I usually manage to do around 4' in an hour, so that stacks up with the figures today.  Just remember it's not a race, so spread it over several days, doing an hour at a time...

 

Edit :  (21 Feb 2014) Please note this works very well with SMP and other thin sleeper track (typically 1mm thick).  I only use SMP track but in response to enquiries I have now tested the same method on Tillig track which has 2mm sleepers.  First tests would suggest the PVA shrinks back and the results are nowhere near as good.  I suspect if I spent more time trying different mixes I could get similar results, but right now my layout is built around SMP and as such I don't have sufficient time to experiment further.  Sorry…..

 

Edit 2:  (25 Feb 2014) See further update in post 51...

Edited February 25, 2014 by gordon s

[ColinK]

Thanks for sharing that with us. I too find ballasting a nightnmare that jams up points, spoils the running qualities and (not sure how) and causes strange electrical problems (mainly current leakage onto tracks which are supposed to be isolated). The layout I am currently building has Peco foam underlay to avoid the pain and so I can reuse the track.

[Oldddudders]

As I said about your use of Templot, Gordon, if it works for ET then it will probably be good enough for most of us. TVM for a very clear explanation, and to CK for sharing the secret in the first place, of course.

[Gruffalo]

A massive dose of thumbs up from me Gordon. Now comes the debate about whether to ballast or to have an alcohol free January. I have to say I'm tippling towards the ballast and a large glass of something suitable. 

[trisonic]

I'll certainly will give this method a go...

 

Thanks for the "neat" explanation, Gordon - the Good Cap'n really does know his ballast.

 

Can you remind us what "underlayment" you use?

 

Best, Pete.

Edited January 2, 2014 by trisonic

[gordon s]

Strips of 1/8" cork from these guys.  I buy the 98' rolls and the strips of chamfered cork for the edges...

 

http://www.charlescantrill.com/model-railway/cork-track-strips.html

[Jaz]

I am always 'gumming' up the points and drive Kal insane. He pointed this out, and i plan to try it. Thank you for sharing.

[gordon s]

Just to finish off the story, here's the same piece of track the following morning.  The PVA has set solid and there is a very slight shrinkage of the ballast levels.  To my mind this improves the finished look and stops the slighted bloated appearance of the ballast around the track whilst the PVA is still wet.

 

Edited January 3, 2014 by gordon s

[Pete 75C]

Just to finish off the story, here's the same piece of track the following morning.  The PVA has set solid and there is a very slight shrinkage of the ballast levels.  To my mind this improves the finished look and stops the slighted bloated appearance of the ballast around the track whilst the PVA is still wet.

 

I like that very much. Thanks for the pictures of the process.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Pete_S

[Arthur]

Aspirational track work Gordon, I've long admired it on your Eastwood Town thread and that's a great tutorial which you have provided, thank you.

 

The Woodlands ballast, it is granite chips? This method seems not to give the ballast that 'green cast' which the traditional dilute PVA dripped on method does, which is a real improvement.

[gordon s]

No, it's absolutely fine.  No green cast at all. Compare it to this earlier test piece from 5 years back which used another product.  

 

Sorry, I can't recall which manufacturer it came from..

 

 

 

[Pete 75C]

I'll be delighted if I'm wrong, but I always thought the greenish hue was as a result of the detergent used during the traditional dry ballasting method? I thought that was why many people preferred not to go down the "with a drop of washing up liquid" route. If it's the ballast itself that causes the colour change, well, you learn something every day... Pete.

[Arthur]

Thanks Gordon, nice Brit by the way, DJH?

 

So in that photograph, the green cast is clear, was that ballasted with the CK method and it's the Woodlands ballast itself which makes the difference?

 

Edit; Hadn't heard that Pete, about the detergent, interesting.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Arthur

[chris p bacon]

I'll be delighted if I'm wrong, but I always thought the greenish hue was as a result of the detergent used during the traditional dry ballasting method? I thought that was why many people preferred not to go down the "with a drop of washing up liquid" route. If it's the ballast itself that causes the colour change, well, you learn something every day... Pete.

Yes, but what if you used "Lemon fresh" would that give a yellow hue..........

 

 

Have to go Nurse is banging on the door....

[gordon s]

Thanks Gordon, nice Brit by the way, DJH?

 

So in that photograph, the green cast is clear, was that ballasted with the CK method and it's the Woodlands ballast itself which makes the difference?

 

Edit; Hadn't heard that Pete, about the detergent, interesting.

 

Yes, it's a DJH built for me a few years back by Graham Varley.  He did a beautiful job, but 'sausage fingers me' managed to drop the tender, which landed right on one corner where the three panels come together and put a dent in it.  

 

It's on the list of things to do as it will need sorting one day…:-(

 

Now I think about it, that test piece came from an old layout and I didn't do the ballasting, but it is a good example of the green cast you can get with some ballast products.  I always thought it was from the PVA so it was a surprise when LBM mentioned the washing up liquid.  Hadn't heard that one before.

[Pete 75C]

Just because I assume something, rarely makes it true! I heard that from a friend who never uses liquid PVA or washing up liquid - he prefers to use a blend of stone and Cascamite powerdered glue. Maybe it is more likely to be the granite or the PVA. Anyone else know for sure?

[trustytrev]

Hello Gordon,

                    

                      Like the ballasted track in post #8.Who makes it please?

trustytrev.

[gordon s]

SMP, available from Marcway..

 

Edit:  Should have said it's 00 type J. 

 

http://www.marcway.net/list3.php?col=head&name=SCALEWAY+TRACK

Edited January 3, 2014 by gordon s

[bluebottle]

This thread goes straight into my "favorites" file. I like to see a fully detailed, well illustrated account, as Gordon gives us. It's too easy, when you've mastered some process, to forget that you had to learn it, and leave out explanations of the parts that are "easy when you know how" - that doesn't happen here.

Thank you, Gordon!

[Trevellan]

This is one of the most useful threads I've seen on RMweb for a while. Many thanks for taking the trouble Gordon.

 

As for thinking the good Captain is mad, who would dare suggest such a thing? Okay, get in the queue you lot... 

 

[martin_wynne]

The Woodlands ballast, it is granite chips? This method seems not to give the ballast that 'green cast' which the traditional dilute PVA dripped on method does, which is a real improvement.

 

Woodlands ballast is made from nut shells.

 

The green granite chips are made as mortar sand: http://www.specialistaggregates.com/mortar-sand-light-grey-granite-fine-p-1157.html

 

Martin.

[3 link]

Woodlands ballast is made from nut shells.

 

The green granite chips are made as mortar sand: http://www.specialistaggregates.com/mortar-sand-light-grey-granite-fine-p-1157.html

 

Martin.

 

£31.60 for 20kg including VAT & delivery, WOW that's some mark up those suppliers have had off us over the years .

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

[Ray H]

Gordon

 

Barry Norman recommends Febond PVA which he says is thicker than the Resin W type variety sold in the DIY sheds. Is that the type of PVA that you use and do you dilute it?

 

I need to "ballast" my goods yard and I'm using chinchilla sand because I also want the track (other than the rails) and non-track surfaces in the yard to have a similar end texture. Like you I have tried the usual dodge of laying the sand, misting it with water + detergent and then dripping diluted PVA over it. The sand is so light that it makes a run for it as soon as the water hits it and the result after the diluted PVA is added and dried is that the surface is very rough.

 

I think that after my third different attempt at covering the non-track surface with the sand that I have got that sorted but your approach to "ballasting" the track looks to be my only option with the sand unless I lift the track and put the glue down first, something I'm loathe to do.

[martin_wynne]

The sand is so light that it makes a run for it as soon as the water hits it and the result after the diluted PVA is added and dried is that the surface is very rough.

 

Hi Ray,

 

On Adavoyle Junction we made a very effective gravel platform surface by sprinkling chinchilla dust on wet light grey enamel paint. After it had dried the surplus could be brushed off leaving a smooth single layer.

 

Martin.

Edited February 19, 2014 by martin_wynne

[Ray H]

Hi Ray,

 

On Adavoyle Junction we made a very effective gravel platform surface by sprinkling chinchilla dust on wet light grey enamel paint. After it had dried the surplus could be brushed off leaving a smooth single layer.

 

Martin.

 

Thanks Martin.

 

I did something similar using neat PVA instead of paint but I don't think that I got a consistent thickness to the adhesive so I ended up with a patchy result.

 

I have just tried another area and was a bit more consistent with the thickness of the glue and am waiting to see how that turns out. I haven't disturbed it yet, preferring to allow the PVA to dry before I attempt to vacuum the surplus off. That's a job for tomorrow.