Bluebell Railway news

[Grizz]

1 hour ago, The Evil Bus Driver said:

I still haven't made it to the Bluebell myself (I did a rail replacement job to EG from Purley not long before I left Brighton and Hove Buses and I came and had a look while there) so I have yet to try out the 'new' bit.

 

Regarding Bullhead I remember at Lewes there was an old cripple/engineering spur behind platform 1 that at the time had been relaid with new Bullhead rail, so some sod is still making it. It had that orange rust colour that new rail has, and fresh ballast. About 6 months later they came and took it up.

 Evil Bus Driver when all this virus rubbish is done you really should come and check out Bluebell if you can. ...........it is a wonderfully superb place. 
 

Bullhead rail is still made, as an example roughly half of the Victoria Line on London Underground was Bullhead, or at least it was approx two years ago. It is totally possible to buy it through normal channels and we have on occasion done so. But it is getting removed from NR and LU and will eventually not be required.  
 

However rails aside, new wooden sleepers only last roughly 30 years maximum. New S1 BH chairs are really expensive and obviously two are needed for each sleeper as well as six chair screws and six ferrules. Buying or using second hand S1 chairs is a false economy with new rails because the quality of SH is random and the castings are often so worn around the rail seat area of the chair, the part where the foot of the sits, that it gives uneven bearing on the rail seat area. Or and also in addition it can be rounded out which causes the rail head to unevenly rotate outwards under load. This is made worse when crappy worn Mills Steel keys are used, as these totally vary in their effectiveness and security. Another place the chairs wear is the teeth that hold the steel keys are often non existent or totally ineffective. 
Also when wooden sleepers begin to deteriorate the chair screws securing the chairs begin to randomly loose their function, which is to provide adequate vertical and lateral restraint to the chairs. The traditional BH track configuration is labour intensive to maintain and doesn’t have the life expectancy or reliability of the 113LB FB system as described below.
So if we look at buying through established channels the availability and cost of new BH rail really makes no odds. Cost wise New FB rail can be roughly the same as New BH rail, but it does vary due to supply.

However if we look at the whole track configuration, especially the effectiveness and longevity of the fastening systems of both BH and FB it is easy to see which is best.

New 10mm FB rail pads are pence each. New nylon insulators are also pence each. The preferred Bluebell weapon of choice is, when available, serviceable second hand F40 concrete sleepers, or occasionally F27s, and with the renewed supporting formation under the track, these are easily able to last almost indefinitely on our railway at max 25 mph.

Most important is using brand new Pandrol E series E1809 clips with the F40s. These give a 9Kn toe load when correctly installed using Pan Setters and Pan Pullers (definitely not hammers) which is way in excess of the Mills Steel Keys. Finally top stone, which is free draining and has good shoulders. Remembering that around 60% of track stability is at the sleeper ends. This track configuration is well established, it is safe, solid and reliable. Best of all it can be maintained using mechanised maintenance. These are the additional reasons why this system was chosen, it is not purely the cost. The reduction in manual handling with the FB system is a huge benefit, as this reduces the risk of injury. But most importantly BH is retained in the station areas where the public sees, where it is generally much easier to access for maintenance and speeds are lower.
 

That bay platform (old platform 1j at Lewes, which was great for stabling tampers etc, was removed during the recent area re-signalling scheme, at least I am fairly sure it was. Dunno why though. Possibly it was not long enough to be of much regular use. 
 

Does anyone know for sure why it was removed?? Over to S&T....

Edited February 20, 2021 by Grizz
Missed a bit...doh

[Neal Ball]

On 19/02/2021 at 19:12, Grizz said:

Neal is this livery more to your liking?
Does anyone else remember it visiting Bluebell?  I can remember it but not when it was and how long for. Over to you RASalmon.....


 

I am biased but I believe that this a strikingly beautiful loco. I wish I could have seen some of the other locos of this era in this livery, particularly a D3.

No I don’t remember Gladstone coming to the Bluebell. Richard @rasalmon might know.

 

Is there any real news about the railway? I think we’ve done the track to death now and can probably move on.

[Grizz]

42 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

No I don’t remember Gladstone coming to the Bluebell. Richard @rasalmon might know.

 

Is there any real news about the railway? I think we’ve done the track to death now and can probably move on.

Yep he did. 1982 for the Centenary. 

 

Agreed!!!

[Neal Ball]

3 hours ago, Grizz said:

Yep he did. 1982 for the Centenary. 

 

Agreed!!!

Before my time at the railway.

[Grizz]

Just a quick couple of photos from last year, August 5th. This is Ketches Halt on the day it was removed. 
 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Grizz
Forgot the other photo....

[caradoc]

I have visited the Bluebell several times (more often since the East Grinstead extension opened - a great achievement in itself) and have found it a well-maintained and well-operated railway, catering superbly for both the general public (the majority) and us enthusiasts. There is no going back to the good old days of early railway preservation, with the track maintained by a couple of 80-year olds, and perhaps when derailments occur, the passengers putting to one side the chickens they were taking to market to assist with the rerailing !

 

[The Evil Bus Driver]

42 minutes ago, Grizz said:

Just a quick couple of photos from last year, August 5th. This is Ketches Halt on the day it was removed. 
 

 

 

 

 

That'll make a good Ardingly station when the time comes. Maybe the thing to do would be to measure the platform components  and use them as patterns, the railway could have an endless supply of prefabricated platform parts.

 

Wasn't there a plan to build EG station in the Southern Railway prefab style at one point?

[The Evil Bus Driver]

15 hours ago, Grizz said:

 Evil Bus Driver when all this virus rubbish is done you really should come and check out Bluebell if you can. ...........it is a wonderfully superb place. 
 

Bullhead rail is still made, as an example roughly half of the Victoria Line on London Underground was Bullhead, or at least it was approx two years ago. It is totally possible to buy it through normal channels and we have on occasion done so. But it is getting removed from NR and LU and will eventually not be required.  
 

However rails aside, new wooden sleepers only last roughly 30 years maximum. New S1 BH chairs are really expensive and obviously two are needed for each sleeper as well as six chair screws and six ferrules. Buying or using second hand S1 chairs is a false economy with new rails because the quality of SH is random and the castings are often so worn around the rail seat area of the chair, the part where the foot of the sits, that it gives uneven bearing on the rail seat area. Or and also in addition it can be rounded out which causes the rail head to unevenly rotate outwards under load. This is made worse when crappy worn Mills Steel keys are used, as these totally vary in their effectiveness and security. Another place the chairs wear is the teeth that hold the steel keys are often non existent or totally ineffective. 
Also when wooden sleepers begin to deteriorate the chair screws securing the chairs begin to randomly loose their function, which is to provide adequate vertical and lateral restraint to the chairs. The traditional BH track configuration is labour intensive to maintain and doesn’t have the life expectancy or reliability of the 113LB FB system as described below.
So if we look at buying through established channels the availability and cost of new BH rail really makes no odds. Cost wise New FB rail can be roughly the same as New BH rail, but it does vary due to supply.

However if we look at the whole track configuration, especially the effectiveness and longevity of the fastening systems of both BH and FB it is easy to see which is best.

New 10mm FB rail pads are pence each. New nylon insulators are also pence each. The preferred Bluebell weapon of choice is, when available, serviceable second hand F40 concrete sleepers, or occasionally F27s, and with the renewed supporting formation under the track, these are easily able to last almost indefinitely on our railway at max 25 mph.

Most important is using brand new Pandrol E series E1809 clips with the F40s. These give a 9Kn toe load when correctly installed using Pan Setters and Pan Pullers (definitely not hammers) which is way in excess of the Mills Steel Keys. Finally top stone, which is free draining and has good shoulders. Remembering that around 60% of track stability is at the sleeper ends. This track configuration is well established, it is safe, solid and reliable. Best of all it can be maintained using mechanised maintenance. These are the additional reasons why this system was chosen, it is not purely the cost. The reduction in manual handling with the FB system is a huge benefit, as this reduces the risk of injury. But most importantly BH is retained in the station areas where the public sees, where it is generally much easier to access for maintenance and speeds are lower.
 

That bay platform (old platform 1j at Lewes, which was great for stabling tampers etc, was removed during the recent area re-signalling scheme, at least I am fairly sure it was. Dunno why though. Possibly it was not long enough to be of much regular use. 
 

Does anyone know for sure why it was removed?? Over to S&T....

That'll be awesome I really do want to get to see it

 

Thanks for the rundown on that, I think keeping the BH in station limits but FB elsewhere is wise, as it's been said earlier it's heritage in itself.

 

I used to commute through Lewes when the bay was removed, in fact I was driving the rail replacement bus that weekend! (I did the Kingscote to EG 473 one lucky Sunday too, ended up chatting with Roy Watts when he was still chairman) and when I came through it had been taken out and the turnout plain lined with wooden sleepers, chairs and FB rail.

[Dunsignalling]

Hope this isn't too far off topic, but the Engineers' Siding at Honiton, which was lifted as part of the Basingstoke recontrol that also did for the box, was BH rail on concrete sleepers.

 

As seen in this 2007 photo, which incidentally happens to include a vintage tamper. 

 

John    

Edited February 21, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Grizz]

12 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Hope this isn't too far off topic, but the Engineers' Siding at Honiton, which was lifted as part of the Basingstoke recontrol that also did for the box, was BH rail on concrete sleepers.

 

As seen in this 2007 photo, which incidentally happens to include a vintage tamper. 

 

John    

I just like it noted that it wasn’t me who brought up the subject of track again

[Oldddudders]

3 minutes ago, Grizz said:

I just like it noted that it wasn’t me who brought up the subject of track again

Not my thread, but frankly, without track there are no trains, just relics. And I bet there is more than one heritage line wishing it could have done the deal you did. 

[Grizz]

5 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Before my time at the railway.

Neal if you don’t mind me asking, when did you start going to Bluebell? was it before HK to KC? 

 

I was lucky enough to be taken there as a babe in arms (about 9 months) by my grandparents and parents and apparently I loved it from day one and I cried when it was time to leave  ....and then my son came along and I took him there at 9 months old and history repeated itself. Now he is on the loco roster, well in normal times he is. 
 

If you like I’ll try to get some photos of the railway this week, although there obviously is not much going on with the mandatory Covid management in place and no scheduled public trains running. Any photo requests of the stock at HK? Not likely to make it to SP this week unless plans change.
 

Might also get some photos of the Primroses as first few were out on the south facing embankment just south of New Road bridge at HK. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Evil Bus Driver]

1 hour ago, Grizz said:

I took him there at 9 months old and history repeated itself. Now he is on the loco roster, well in normal times he is

He probably knows a friend of mine who drives there then. Ask him if he knows Jim.

[Tony Teague]

Here's a fairly recent pic that's Bluebell but not about track!

 

 

The S15 without smike deflectors on a goods train during a photo charter on 7th December last; weather was dreadful.

 

Tony

[The Evil Bus Driver]

A truly fine loco she is, too

[Grizz]

37 minutes ago, Tony Teague said:

Here's a fairly recent pic that's Bluebell but not about track!

 

 

The S15 without smike deflectors on a goods train during a photo charter on 7th December last; weather was dreadful.

 

Tony

Tony I was in the yard at HK that day and the following day when the weather was better. The S15 pulling away from a stand at the UP Outer Home signal up the grade towards HK was impressive. My mate was the guard in the brake van, he said he enjoyed the experience. Great photo.

[Grizz]

The Pine Express, 13th October 2019 rolls up Freshfield Bank, 13th October 2019.

 

[Tony Teague]

Thanks Grizz

I actually didn't have a good day back in December - after standing around in  a wet field for half the day I discovered that my boot was leaking and that, together with the cold seems to have brought on a condition in my foot that I am still getting treatment for.

Nevertheless, the Bluebell is in my mind just about the most photogenic heritage railway with one of the best collections of locos and rolling stock, so I will always be back for more!

 

 

Here is Camelot on another charter, back in October 2017.

 

Tony

[Grizz]

Sorry Neal but another black br loco. However it is a classic and it represents a superb ‘Brighton Product’ and it also represents the last loco type used on the Bluebell prior to closure. 80151 at SP on Sunday 15th March 2021.

 

 

 

 

 

[Oldddudders]

17 minutes ago, Grizz said:

Sorry Neal but another black br loco. However it is a classic and it represents a superb ‘Brighton Product’ and it also represents the last loco type used on the Bluebell prior to closure. 80151 at SP on Sunday 15th March 2021.

 

 

All we need now is Miss REM Bessemer standing on the platform!

 

 

 

[Neal Ball]

4 hours ago, Grizz said:

Neal if you don’t mind me asking, when did you start going to Bluebell? was it before HK to KC? ....

Yes!
Way before Kingscote, but the reason I missed things like the Brighton events is that we did not live locally. I consider “my time at the railway” to be when we lived in Sussex which is a lot more recent.

 

I have 35mm slides from visits to the Bluebell from the 1970’s, with my parents and grandparents; both way before services went to Kingscote.

 

I then remember the push pull service to West Hoathley and did that a few times.

 

Having then moved to Hove, East Sussex, we became more frequent visitors for probably 15+ years, including holding a lineside photographers pass. Plus of course we would bring regular groups to the railway for the Real Ale and Jazz events.

With my lineside pass, I stood on the side of the cutting at West Hoathley during the opening weekend to East Grinstead on the Saturday I think. Then took the Pullman breakfast service on the Sunday from Sheffield Park to East Grinstead.

 

In 2019 we moved to Spain and have not been able to visit as often.... although COVID has also changed that... we were due to come over for the 60th last August and hope we can do 60+1 this year..... but realistically I doubt International travel will be feasible until September / October.

 

Oh yes! I’ve been a BRPS member since probably the 80’s and a shareholder for the extension!

 

Real Ale and Jazz service June 2014

 

[rasalmon]

11 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Before my time at the railway.

Neal, me too - I joined in 1983, and started volunteering once I'd passed my driving test the following year.

Edited February 21, 2021 by rasalmon

[rasalmon]

Good idea, Neal, some other "news" (well, things I hope people will find interesting) from the Blog:

 

The February 2021 edition of Bluebell Times includes:
  – An update from the board on the current activity while the Railway is closed;
  – A surprise 100th birthday present for a lifetime Bluebell member;
  – A closer look at H class locomotive No. 263;
  – How smoke deflectors work;
  – Your help needed identifying some old photos;
  – Puzzles with links to local branch lines;
  – And much, much more.

 

A new Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway blog post reporting on a visit by some of the GWSR C&W Dept.’s to the Bluebell over Easter 2017 to ride behind ‘Flying Scotsman’.

 

An updated and improved web page is now available for the Standard Class 2 Tank Engine Rebuild Project, No. 84030, along with an updated leaflet/donation form.

 

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by rasalmon

[Lacathedrale]

One of the interesting tidbits that popped up with a new house purchase is "railway development earmarked for within 100m of the property" in the local authority search - the railway at the end of the garden is the northern approach to Haywards heath station, and the Bluebell Preservation Society suggests this is for when the route through Ardingly is relaid and connected through.

 

I was wondering, is this a pie in the sky project, or something likely to happen? I think I'd be very chuffed to hear steam locos at the end of the garden but it seems like a huge piece of work!

[rasalmon]

49 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

One of the interesting tidbits that popped up with a new house purchase is "railway development earmarked for within 100m of the property" in the local authority search - the railway at the end of the garden is the northern approach to Haywards heath station, and the Bluebell Preservation Society suggests this is for when the route through Ardingly is relaid and connected through.

 

I was wondering, is this a pie in the sky project, or something likely to happen? I think I'd be very chuffed to hear steam locos at the end of the garden but it seems like a huge piece of work!

Interesting that it should appear in a search; the Bluebell only have an aim, rather than planning permission at this stage.
The Bluebell owns all the trackbed from Horsted Keynes to Ardingly, and has a lease on Lywood tunnel.  There is no timescale for connecting through to Ardingly at present, but the Bluebell has obtained the bridge sections to replace the viaduct just to the west of Horsted Keynes which was demolished in the 1960s.
Once at Ardingly, the line from Haywards Heath is already there, and used to serve the aggregates terminal.  The Bluebell has agreement for a track around the edge of the aggregates terminal (although it will be costly to re-locate the current facilities which use that part of the yard), and then it would be connected to the existing line to Haywards Heath.  There is space allocated for a Bluebell platform alongside the car park adjacent to the National Rail station at Haywards Heath, but no run-round loop, so operation of trains which might require a steam locomotive on both ends might not be feasible except for special events.  Negotiating track access between the junction and Haywards Heath station on a very congested section of the Brighton Main Line is also going to be a challenge.
So in short, whilst it's a possibility for the future, at present it remains just a possibility.  The BRPS's policy currently is to ensure that the option remains there for the future, (which does entail some limited work on the section from Horsted Keynes to Ardingly), and ensuring the availability of the tunnel and trackbed for when the time comes.  Remember it took us nearly 40 years to reach East Grinstead.  There's no rush!  The 2013 official BRPS "Long Term Plan" (see section 5) sets out the official policy, but is due to be revised this year.