Bluebell Railway news

[woodenhead]

On 11/02/2021 at 08:09, Grizz said:

‘Taters’ this morning....  -9c...

 

 

 

 

 

So not the sort of day to test the temperature at track level with your tongue

[rasalmon]

7 hours ago, Grizz said:

The Monster awakes........although you’d be forgiven for thinking that it is actually a photo of a dead tamper. If you look very carefully one of the side lights is operational. 

 

This 07 is a great piece of kit, allowing for its age it is in remarkably good condition. Once the batteries were recharged the power unit roared into life with no objection and the horns were heard right across the yard. 
 

 

 

Now it belongs to us, I ought to add it to the stock list...  Now, does it go on the loco list, or with the steam crane (also self-propelled) as part of the wagon list?

[Tony Teague]

1 hour ago, rasalmon said:

Now it belongs to us, I ought to add it to the stock list...  Now, does it go on the loco list, or with the steam crane (also self-propelled) as part of the wagon list?

 

Isn't that a bit of an odd purchase if we can use the big new job for nothing?

[Grizz]

2 hours ago, Tony Teague said:

 

Isn't that a bit of an odd purchase if we can use the big new job for nothing?

That is a question I have been asked and I have heard being asked countless times and it might seem that way Tony, however the business arrangement with the INFRACO is just that and so as such it is obviously not indefinite.
 

As RASalmon previously mentioned it is here at present for crew training etc. It is an S&C tamper capable of working in tandem with another machine, for example DR 73950. They can be set up to work on parallel roads with an umbilical cord, with one machine controlling both units, tamping through adjacent plain line roads and through S&C crossover layouts etc. They are incredible machines, which are capable of speeds up to 60 mph on the mainline, when transiting between jobs. When doing so 73949 and 73950 can also be coupled to work in multiple and be driven from either tamper, a bit like a multiple unit. 

Now that we have invested in the track renewal program, with the track configuration and renewed formation as detailed above, we are in a position to at least maintain our railway to allow us to continue to run without potentially serious issues arising.  However we will have an on going need to regularly carry out maintenance tamps on the renewed Flat Bottom track, in exactly the same way as Network Rail and London Underground. Obviously that way we continue to maximise the life of the track asset and protect the rolling stock from premature wear and damage. 

However to allow us to do this in the most efficient and effective way possible we required our own mechanised maintenance capability. The 07 16 machine is a good medium to long term investment for Bluebell, especially as they don’t come up for sale in reasonably good condition very often and in this particular case it was already at Bluebell at the time of sale. 
 

As previously discussed here the 07 16 Tamper or visiting DR 73949 machine very presence might not be to everyone’s taste. However this is no longer the 1970s, we need to maximise our resources and thus ensure that we can continue to enjoy our precious railway for generations to come. Preservation comes in many forms. Permanent Way Machines are just as much an important part of railway history as any other. It is in the correct colour for its British Rail period (although a little weathered in model railway terms) apart from the old owning company’s stickers, and it could do with a set of BR double arrows.

 

Personally I do not agree with the idea that the 07 should be painted green or any other colour than the Yellow that it wore for the majority if not all of its working life on BR. The painting everything green or maroon solution is definitely not the panacea for everything. It is the equivalent of suggesting that steam locos on railways with diesel locos should be painted into BR rail blue with yellow ends or Intercity. Historically that narrow minded approach is increasingly unfair and going down that route is lazy and shows utter contempt towards the railways after August 1968.

To sum it up our Tamper is a non passenger carrying vehicle, which is only likely to be used by a small number of highly trained staff in the Infrastructure Dept within Possessions. Some railwaymen, who are trained to drive and operated it, have even requested the chance to have a shift or two working it for old times sake. 
 

It is ‘on Track Plant’, painted in Plant Yellow. 
 

 I’ve been asked countless times by photographers, members of the public and even our own volunteers and staff members about the machine. Some have even asked if it would be operating for the public to see....how unexpectedly wonderful...
 

What is your opinion of the tamper Tony? 
 

I’ve reposted the photo below to show the 07 16 and  DR 73949 together. They are both Plasser and Theurer built several decades apart. But despite their age difference they still share an essential component in common.....The Lining Cord. 

 

[Tony Teague]

Thanks Grizz

A very full answer which perfectly deals with my question.

My feeling is that very few heritage railways have yet to grasp the problem of ageing infrastructure and particularly where it relates to the track itself, so I am completely supportive of the approach that Bluebell has been taking.

The tamper is clearly a part of that, and the way to get track maintenance done effficiently and accurately, so whilst it might be nice to imagine that we could make use of a visiting machine whenever we needed one, I am sure that the reality is that it will not always be available when we want it.

As to livery - well in the end whoever owns the machine can paint it whatever colour they like - and some owners have demonstrated their will to do that in the past - e.g. 9F No.92214 at the GCR appearing in BR green as 92220 'Evening Star', and now named 'Leicester City', but for me the tamper should ideally remain in, or be restored to the livery that it carried during it's working life on BR / NR.

And a tamper demo on during a gala weekend, why not?

Thanks for your recent updtaes on here.

Tony

[Nick C]

It also, presumably, raises the possibility of hiring it out to other heritage railways, and so bringing in a bit of extra income for the line?

[EdChap]

Could I be troublesome and ask what is "The Lining Cord" as referenced above, please.

 

Ed

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by EdChap

[Zomboid]

On 13/02/2021 at 22:06, Tony Teague said:

so whilst it might be nice to imagine that we could make use of a visiting machine whenever we needed one, I am sure that the reality is that it will not always be available when we want it.

It probably would be possible to hire in a variety of on track plant as and when needed, though that would of course be at commercial rates if the railway want to determine what comes in and when.

 

Presumably the bluebell have taken the view that it's more efficient to own a machine, and take on the liability for keeping it operational and maintaining staff competence, than to have to pay commercial rates but not have the liability.

 

And they may very well be able to hire out the machine (and its operators) to other railways, which would have fed into the decision to buy it. Time will tell if they're right.

[rasalmon]

3 hours ago, Zomboid said:

It probably would be possible to hire in a variety of on track plant as and when needed, though that would of course be at commercial rates if the railway want to determine what comes in and when.

This particular tamper (the one we've bought) was hired from another heritage organisation; it had to come by road when it was transferred between lines (so a few thousand pounds a time just for road transport), but we were fortunate that it wasn't needed elsewhere very often so could remain on the Bluebell between our hires.

I can't imagine we'd be able to afford a commercial hire of a main-line machine.  The machine we have with us while it is commissioned is (I think someone said) £5M of kit, so a day's hire charge, with crew cost on top, wouldn't be negligible!

If we just need to tamp a small section of relayed track it is not worth hiring in a tamper, at huge expense.  So relayed track would remain with 10mph restrictions on it for a considerable time if we did not have one on site, waiting for a reasonable number of jobs to accumulate for its attention.
So there were plenty of reasons why it made sense for the railway to purchase this one, not least because it was a known quantity and already on site.

Edited February 15, 2021 by rasalmon

[Grizz]

5 hours ago, Zomboid said:

It probably would be possible to hire in a variety of on track plant as and when needed, though that would of course be at commercial rates if the railway want to determine what comes in and when.

 

Presumably the bluebell have taken the view that it's more efficient to own a machine, and take on the liability for keeping it operational and maintaining staff competence, than to have to pay commercial rates but not have the liability.

 

And they may very well be able to hire out the machine (and its operators) to other railways, which would have fed into the decision to buy it. Time will tell if they're right.

This 07 machine is our only realistic option.         Unless someone wins the Euro Lottery there is basically next to no chance of us being able to afford to regularly hire in a machine, with a crew, from an INFRACO on commercial basis. Besides that most INFRACO maintenance machines are specifically bought to service their commercial contracts on Network Rail and London Underground. They are booked in on possessions, some of which are planned up to 3 years in advance. It might be possible to hire in the resource on a very rare occasion but it would cost  and we cannot plan reliable, safety critical, track maintenance that way. Allowing sufficient track geometry faults to build up to level where we could then commercially justify bringing in such resources would be reckless and self defeating. If this approach were to be tried, then most likely we would have just wasted all the money invested in the Track Renewal Program and be down to 5 and 10 mph TSRs. 

 

The 07 machine is primarily for us. Hiring it out very occasionally to other railways might be possible, but probably unlikely. Any returns are unlikely to be commercial viable.
As RASalmon has already said, it costs several thousand just to transport the machine. But it would depend on who was asking I suppose. Also unless the requesting railway’s track formation and its associated drainage was in a suitably good enough condition to be tamped, it would be a complete waste of time and only make matters worse. 

At present we are not there to service other railways needs, especially staffing wise, as we definitely have more than enough to do ourselves on a daily basis as it is. Regulatory requirements regarding Infrastructure maintenance are not as they were in the 1960s and 1970s, and they are likely to become increasingly more stringent as we go forward. 
Obviously operators for the 07 machine are specialist and this isn’t just like learning to drive a loco. They have to be able to operate the tamping element of its function to install or restore the track geometry standard required. Believe it or not there are some folks in this world who have a passionate interest in ‘On Track Plant’ and ‘Track Maintenance Machines’ and a dire to operate them.............which is really great.....because as they say ‘it takes all sorts to make a world’. We might well have some of these interested in attending to operate the 07.
 

Time will tell as there is realistically no other affordable option. I am sure there might well be some here who can remember what happens to rolling stock if the track can longer be maintained because it is life expired. Basically you can run worn out trains on good track but you can’t run good trains on worn out track...because they won’t remain good for long. 
 

Rather than explain what a cord is.... I have gone for the easy (lazy) option and referred you to wiki. It gives an adequate description of a two cord system in the ‘Reference System Section’....I am off to bed now as I am up and back on track early tomorrow. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamping_machine

 

Nite nite all......

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Grizz
Autocorrot

[Grizz]

There is something very pleasing to the eye about our track layout design in the down yard at HK.

 

 

 

 

This morning’s line up in the DN yard. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Grizz]

Might be of interest to anyone taking their permitted daily exercise in a certain part of West Sussex from approx 12:00.
DR 73949 - HK Plat 3 to EG Plat .....repeat repeat repeat etc etc.....well that is plan A...so far. 

 

[Oldddudders]

As a retired railwayman, although never an engineer, I must say I am delighted but not surprised to see the Bluebell using the most modern maintenance methods to maintain modern trackwork. Before there were Big Yellow Machines (as they were invariably described during my time with BRIS, by everyone from Jim Cornell down) the railway relied upon huge armies of people and much more primeval kit to keep the track maintained. The Bluebell is not a museum but a business and must cut its coat according to the cloth available. The very best is clearly being done. 

[Grizz]

2 hours ago, Grizz said:

Might be of interest to anyone taking their permitted daily exercise in a certain part of West Sussex from approx 12:00.
DR 73949 - HK Plat 3 to EG Plat .....repeat repeat repeat etc etc.....well that is plan A...so far. 

 

Hahahahahahahahaha.....mmmmmmm......might be reverting to plan B.
 

Will update if I can.

 

Might have to be KC to EG only.....or might be plan Z at this rate. 
 

And now it’s slashing down......great!         Bored with winter now.

Edited February 17, 2021 by Grizz
Autoarctoct.

[Grizz]

And we’re off. KC to EG etc etc. Now at EG

 

16:00 Tamper Stable. nite nite. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Grizz

[Grizz]

Plan A has been reinstated for tmuro

 

Soooooo if all goes to plan A it should be HK Plat 3 to EG Plat and EG Plat to HK Plat 3.....repeat, repeat, repeat etc etc etc. 

 

And for those into Diesel Hydraulic traction the climb up the gradient up through Imberhorne Cutting (UP direction = 1 in 55 and DN direction = 1 in 60) in both directions makes the turbo ‘scream until you like it’....

Will up date if I can. Cheers All.

 

[autocoach]

I have a bit of interest in the Bluebell after I finally was able to visit in September 2018 and found it delightful.

 

Closer to home I am a supporter of the Niles Canyon Railway (note UK style name), an 9 mile long piece of former Southern Pacific preserved railroad track  dating from 1869.  Niles Canyon has two rail lines with the NCR sharing the canyon on separate tracks with the former WP now UP line which has both freight and passenger traffic (the Altamont Commuter Express-ACE trains.) Unfortunately only a skeleton volunteer staff is able to perform minimal maintenance during our pandemic lockdown.

Edited February 17, 2021 by autocoach
clarity

[Grizz]

Ok....how to get myself burnt on Horsted village green, lesson 1. 
 

Following a suggestion from a friends son, how about this for a temporary loco livery that might bring in punters to see it.

Please bear in mind that the same reasoning behind this non authentic livery suggestion is the same reasoning that brought us Fenchchuch in LBSCR Umber and Stepney in IEG, neither are authentic to those locos if people are going to be exact. Fen church was withdrawn before Umber and Stepney is an A1X, after IEG. If I have got this right. 
 

Soooooooo what about BR Standard 4 Tank loco....wait for it. 

 

Painted to resemble.......LBSCR J1 326 Bessborough .......because they are both large Brighton tanks?....ok....having lobbed that large rock in the pond I better go to work. 

 

 

 

 

[Grizz]

Ah Neal you are truly courageous sir....at least I’ll have some company whilst burning on Horsted village green. 

[Neal Ball]

9 minutes ago, Grizz said:

Ah Neal you are truly courageous sir....at least I’ll have some company whilst burning on Horsted village green. 

It would be shall we say..... “lively” ....

 

Ive said it before, there is too much BR black around. There are plenty of precedents..... although they seem to date to about the 1970’s...

 

BR built Pannier, with Dart Valley on the tanks; several locos with fictional liveries at I think the KWVR around the same time.

 

In these enlightened times, probably not to be repeated though!

 

Back on topic of “Bluebell news” what are the thoughts of galas later in the year? We were due to sail over July / August with the intention of going to the 60+1 gala. Although it’s still a long way off, I think it’s most unlikely that we will be able to get over.....

 

Obviously at this stage we don’t know when the railway can reopen..... but galas would seem to be impractical if they need to include social distancing.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Neal Ball

[Grizz]

14 hours ago, Grizz said:

Plan A has been reinstated for tmuro

 

Soooooo if all goes to plan A it should be HK Plat 3 to EG Plat and EG Plat to HK Plat 3.....repeat, repeat, repeat etc etc etc. 

 

And for those into Diesel Hydraulic traction the climb up the gradient up through Imberhorne Cutting (UP direction = 1 in 55 and DN direction = 1 in 60) in both directions makes the turbo ‘scream until you like it’....

Will up date if I can. Cheers All.

 

Update. DR 73949 - HK Plat 3 to EG Plat and return...... repeat repeat repeat etc etc etc.  Just leaving.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Grizz

[Zomboid]

7 hours ago, Grizz said:

Soooooooo what about BR Standard 4 Tank loco....wait for it. 

 

Painted to resemble.......LBSCR J1 326 Bessborough .......because they are both large Brighton tanks?..

It's only paint, and there are plenty of other standard 4 tanks knocking about.

 

I don't know that it would be very convincing because there's almost no similarities in the shape, but it would be interesting and potentially quite attractive.

[Grizz]

8 return trips completed, “and home in time for tea and medals” 

[rasalmon]

On 17/02/2021 at 09:22, Oldddudders said:

As a retired railwayman, although never an engineer, I must say I am delighted but not surprised to see the Bluebell using the most modern maintenance methods to maintain modern trackwork. Before there were Big Yellow Machines (as they were invariably described during my time with BRIS, by everyone from Jim Cornell down) the railway relied upon huge armies of people and much more primeval kit to keep the track maintained. The Bluebell is not a museum but a business and must cut its coat according to the cloth available. The very best is clearly being done. 

Indeed, given that we've relaid far more track in the last few years than was ever the case before, if we relied on doing the track-laying by hand (you need 20 people to lift a rail... but we never actually had 20 available when I helped out, and we were all younger then, taking a week off work once a year forPeter Cox's "Engineering week"), we simply wouldn't now have a railway to run trains on.  You can only rely on the inherited worn-out infrastructure for so long, as we did for the first 30 years.

[Tony Teague]

Its also interesting that other heritage raiways are starting to worry about this aspect too (according to Heritage Railways mag.) - I feel that the Bluebell is well ahead in terms of track renewal and that this is to be applauded.