surfsup Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Maybe as a final thought, before returning on topic to "news items" Spare a thought for the time that the crews need to get to Sheffield Park to get a steam loco prepared for the first train of the day whi h on service 2 leaves the Park at 09:45..... Best guess at preparing a loco..... 3 hours? That makes it 06:45...... Them the crew have to get to the railway..... I live in Hove which is about 40 minutes away, so if I was flootplate crew (which I would love to do) could possibly mean leaving home about 6am. My guess 3 hours prep time..... Food for thought about why there is a call for the first train of the day to be diesel hauled..... Back to the topic of news please! Last time I was down there for the last DMU weekend, some of the lines staff were telling me that they have to get footplate crew to the line for around 3-4AM to start at 09:45. Hence why there is strong consideration being given to look how other lines operate their first service of the day with a Diesel or DMU. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David32424 Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Here is the link to my web gallery my from yesterday's photo charter with 45231along with some video sequences https://picasaweb.google.com/105454327852537837128/Black5No45231PhotoCharterBluebellRailwayFebruary262014?noredirect=1# 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul.Uni Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 According to the loco roster on the 22nd and 23rd March there is some kind of special event featuring: 3 Captain Baxter on Brake Van rides SE&CR 'H' 263 SE&CR 'C' 592 SR 'S15' 847 SR 'U' 1638 GWR '5600' 5643 GWR '4575' L150 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Last time I was down there for the last DMU weekend, some of the lines staff were telling me that they have to get footplate crew to the line for around 3-4AM to start at 09:45. Hence why there is strong consideration being given to look how other lines operate their first service of the day with a Diesel or DMU. I haven't been to the BB for some time, but the first service was always the 11.00 departure from SP. There were earlier departures during galas, but they don't have any of those anymore! If they put a diesel on during a steam gala I think that would be the last straw for many, but there seems to be a view at the BB that they can just keep on pushing, pushing ... Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Pushing... what? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfsup Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) I haven't been to the BB for some time, but the first service was always the 11.00 departure from SP. There were earlier departures during galas, but they don't have any of those anymore! If they put a diesel on during a steam gala I think that would be the last straw for many, but there seems to be a view at the BB that they can just keep on pushing, pushing ... Regards Pushing for what exactly though, the use of the Diesel or DMU would be for the first train of the day in Timetable Two only, then steam would take over for the rest of the day. The current Timetable 2 now has the first service of the day as 09:45 from Sheffield Park to East Grinstead - This was originally as a result of the Galas during the opening event which initially started out as a ECS service, but has turned into a regular fixture ever since due to it's popularity, and is now the main in season timetable. It's also unlikely that unless it was advertised as a mixed traffic gala, they would put a diesel out during a steam gala too. And even during the DMUs recent runs, during my time there only 1 person walked away due to a lack of steam - It was well advertised as a DMU service!! Edited March 2, 2014 by surfsup Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted March 3, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 3, 2014 To celebrate the first anniversary of the opening to East Grinstead, there is a weekend of double headed trains: http://www.bluebell-railway.com/event/happy-birthday-east-grinstead/ Sat and Sun 22nd and 23rd March 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 A slight pity that the gala doesn't recognise the invaluable help of the 33 and 09 in actually making the East Grinstead reconnection possible - but I suppose at least we can take a day off on the Friday and enjoy diesel haulage on the Bluebell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfsup Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 A slight pity that the gala doesn't recognise the invaluable help of the 33 and 09 in actually making the East Grinstead reconnection possible - but I suppose at least we can take a day off on the Friday and enjoy diesel haulage on the Bluebell. And a 73 for that matter too. I'll still however be back on the Friday too though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 And a 73 for that matter too. I'll still however be back on the Friday too though. ... and the 66's that hauled the spoil trains although I understand having "incoming railtours" does somewhat mess up the timetable. Hopefully the "own stock diesel do" will be successful and in the future they can look towards a proper full weekend of hiring in locos etc. Reminds me, we need to book our tickets. I'm drooling already over the thought of a future an "all operating loco run-past" with horns blasting in the style of the steam run-by for the 50th anniversary... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfsup Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 A slight pity that the gala doesn't recognise the invaluable help of the 33 and 09 in actually making the East Grinstead reconnection possible - but I suppose at least we can take a day off on the Friday and enjoy diesel haulage on the Bluebell. Well, when it looked like attitudes were starting to change on the line and the history of the past 60 years might start to gain some inclusion in the lines history, this lot all unfortunately came from the lines Facebook page this evening. Friday 21 March: Our first ever Diesel Gala - Class 33, 09 and DMU 101/108 on the trains, and brake van rides behind the 08. Last chance to ride behind them before the 33, 08 and DMU leave the Bluebell. The 33, 08 and DMU are all going. That should be no surprise - the 33 only came in on hire to assist with the engineering work on the extension, the hired-in 08 has been replaced with the now resident 09, and the DMU was always indicated as a short-term hire, to cover the period of partial line closure during our winter engineering work. As from 29 March we have steam trains running every single day through to 2nd November. I can't say that I'm too surprised by this but I am very disappointed. The 33 especially, given how invaluable it has been to the line for the past year, the fact it hold more Southern Region pedigree than most of the steam on the line and the fact it is effectively homeless - It hardly does nothing for anyone sat at Burton. Dare I say it that had it stayed and been included in this years timetable I was on the verge of sending off a membership application, but given that the general consensus seems to be that if I want a diesel I should go somewhere else then so be it, I'll very well do that. In fact, I'm just booking up my tickets for another Sulzer on a line which normally runs steam hauled services as a Business, D7535 on the Paignton and Dartmouth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul.Uni Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Timetable for the Diesel Gala http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pti/dieselgala.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I was on the verge of sending off a membership application, but given that the general consensus seems to be that if I want a diesel I should go somewhere else then so be it, I'll very well do that. I wonder how many others over the years have thought the same thing, and how much the Bluebell have lost out in revenue because of the attitude of "their" railway being somehow spoilt by having a diesel running. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted March 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 14, 2014 I wonder how many others over the years have thought the same thing, and how much the Bluebell have lost out in revenue because of the attitude of "their" railway being somehow spoilt by having a diesel running. Possibly balanced out by the number of members whom joined because it was a steam only railway (which is a different USP than being anti diesel) ... I am a member but I am in neither camp.... its Southern init... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted March 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 14, 2014 I wonder how many others over the years have thought the same thing, and how much the Bluebell have lost out in revenue because of the attitude of "their" railway being somehow spoilt by having a diesel running. Every preserved line seeks to set its own style, and the Bluebell being one of the very first preserved standard-gauge railways, it has had decades to develop this. Of course there are plenty of diesel enthusiasts out there, but evidently the Bluebell sees them as being less important than retention of its traditional values, which attract a lot of people who find the lure of steam, and only steam, to be effective. While, in common with most of the other preserved operations, the Bluebell has a Society, it is also a very big business, and those charged with running it have made their calculations. I suspect, from things I've heard, that even the membership has limited influence over key commercial issues these days, and frankly I'd say that is sensible. The Bluebell's considerable growth over the 50 years since I first travelled over it suggests that those in charge haven't got too much wrong so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfsup Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) I wonder how many others over the years have thought the same thing, and how much the Bluebell have lost out in revenue because of the attitude of "their" railway being somehow spoilt by having a diesel running. Well it's still proving its worth today too - L150 was the next loco to start having running problems and 847 subsequently failed during the morning, and lo and behold the 33 was the nearest next available loco to come to the rescue for the rest of the day. So it will either have to come down to the 09 in the future, or as the Bluebell put it this afternoon on their facebook page after some quizzing by ''members'', they would have kept L150 limping along regardless. Could it come back to haunt them I wonder? Not just as a stand in, but if we suffer another summer full of heatwaves again whereby a steam restriction or ban is imposed? Either way, hardly a great start for them when their 'vaunted' 33 has to come out and rescue the days services, again. Bluebell Railway If the 33 or 09 had not been available we'd probably have limped on with L.150, with consequent delays to the services. Now we have connections to make at East Grinstead, we have to give a higher priority to timekeeping. Edited March 15, 2014 by surfsup Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Unfortunately I noticed the 33 was running today an hour after I'd left East Grinstead (for the model exhibition) and returned home otherwise I'd have treated myself to some thrash. I hadn't popped along today simply because I intend to visit on Friday for their "diesel gala". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Their main problem seems to be a lack of serviceable locos - steam or diesel. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted March 16, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 16, 2014 Their main problem seems to be a lack of serviceable locos - steam or diesel. Geoff Endacott Without knowing the full situation behind the scenes you might also be able to add to that a restricted amount of labour and funds to keep engines in traffic. Even the best forward planning in terms of a maintenance roster and renewal of boiler tickets can come unstuck when there is an unexpected failure. The Bluebell has more than enough motive power for its normal timetables but it does seem that there are times when very few are available for traffic. There are only so many qualified steam fitters out there. There is only so much money coming in from ticket sales. And - quite frankly - there is also a fairly small number of people willing to get out of bed at 2 or 3am and drive perhaps half-way across Sussex in order to prepare and fire the locos in time for traffic. Full respect to those who do. It is no small measure of the Bluebell's commercial success that traffic levels require two or three trains in service and that in turn requires those locos to be fired and ready in the small hours. I'm not pontificating as an armchair expert; I belong to a group experiencing significant difficulties in recruiting enough volunteers to keep our preserved rolling stock from rotting faster than it can be conserved. Despite living 12000 miles away I always volunteer a day in what ever capacity is required when I'm over. I accept there are harsh commercial realities to be faced and that - in general - volunteers are not getting any younger and are increasingly hard to find even when there are youth engagement programs in place. The Bluebell has succeeded as a steam railway. It has to pay for its link to the national network somehow and part of that is by accepting occasional incoming charters. It cannot turn steam locos which makes operating those charters with steam the more awkward. In terms of its own services if a diesel rescue is required because steam has failed then the 09 is capable of hauling any load the line permits and at the permitted line speed to boot. I have been present when a loco failed in traffic; the timetable was adjusted and luckily on that day an additional loco was already in steam for a wedding charter. That loco and the charter were coupled to a retimed service train and no trip was lost. That would not be possible on all operating days and neither is it viable to always have a stand-by loco in steam. Though for expected busy days that would be a prudent move if it is not already done if only to avoid disruption, delays and disappointment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) Prices for admission are getting much to high and will put many punters off. Bluebell http://www.bluebell-railway.com/timetable-and-fares/fares-2014/ Family ticket £45.50 Adult return £16.50 GCR the first one I looked at http://www.gcrailway.co.uk/timetables-and-fares/ Family ticket £34 Adult all day £15 The paying general public wont realise or care what the Bluebell are doing. They will simply look at the price for day out with their kids and think no chance and go elsewhere or simply not bother at all. Edited March 16, 2014 by micklner Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy M Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Does anyone know where 'P' Class Bluebell has gone? I saw it heading north up the M40 on Wednesday morning and was curious as to its destination. Regards, Andy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Does anyone know where 'P' Class Bluebell has gone? I saw it heading north up the M40 on Wednesday morning and was curious as to its destination. From their Facebook page on the 12th: "No.323 "Bluebell" is seen heading round the M25 this morning, heading for Shackerstone, where it is to be one of the guest stars at the Battlefield Line's Spring Steam Gala on 11 - 13 April." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted March 18, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 18, 2014 Prices for admission are getting much to high and will put many punters off. Bluebell http://www.bluebell-railway.com/timetable-and-fares/fares-2014/ Family ticket £45.50 Adult return £16.50 GCR the first one I looked at http://www.gcrailway.co.uk/timetables-and-fares/ Family ticket £34 Adult all day £15 The paying general public wont realise or care what the Bluebell are doing. They will simply look at the price for day out with their kids and think no chance and go elsewhere or simply not bother at all. Not being funny - but you are ignoring the well known tendency for things to cost more in the south east than elsewhere in the country. Beer is often a useful yardstick in this regard and I would bet that the cost of a pint in Loughborough is noticeably less than in Sussex. Why does this matter? well what is true for beer is also true of other things and while the Bluebell may be a Heritage railway, not all roles can be filled by volunteers. Our catering department for example consists of mainly paid staff and I know that wages aren't exactly low down here so it probably costs the Bluebell more than the GCR for example to run the operation (especially as Sheffield Park is out in the middle of nowhere and all staff need personal transport to get to work). The situation with our paid staff in the workshop is the same although you could argue that given the nature of the work (being specialised and not something that can be done by college students at weekends) things are even worse - I know that we lost a skilled boilersmith a couple of years ago because the railway simply couldn't afford to pay him what he needed to cover his mortgage, etc. in the SE so was forced to leave and seek work elsewhere even though he didn't want to. Of course the flip side is that although everything is more expensive, people in the SE tend to be paid more so can afford the higher prices - or at least thats the theory and it seems to work. I agree its a bit tough on people from outside the region - but thats hardly the fault of the Bluebell who need to act according to how the world is - not how they might want it to be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted March 19, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2014 Without knowing the full situation behind the scenes you might also be able to add to that a restricted amount of labour and funds to keep engines in traffic. Even the best forward planning in terms of a maintenance roster and renewal of boiler tickets can come unstuck when there is an unexpected failure. The Bluebell has more than enough motive power for its normal timetables but it does seem that there are times when very few are available for traffic. There are only so many qualified steam fitters out there. There is only so much money coming in from ticket sales. And - quite frankly - there is also a fairly small number of people willing to get out of bed at 2 or 3am and drive perhaps half-way across Sussex in order to prepare and fire the locos in time for traffic. Full respect to those who do. It is no small measure of the Bluebell's commercial success that traffic levels require two or three trains in service and that in turn requires those locos to be fired and ready in the small hours. I'm not pontificating as an armchair expert; I belong to a group experiencing significant difficulties in recruiting enough volunteers to keep our preserved rolling stock from rotting faster than it can be conserved. Despite living 12000 miles away I always volunteer a day in what ever capacity is required when I'm over. I accept there are harsh commercial realities to be faced and that - in general - volunteers are not getting any younger and are increasingly hard to find even when there are youth engagement programs in place. The Bluebell has succeeded as a steam railway. It has to pay for its link to the national network somehow and part of that is by accepting occasional incoming charters. It cannot turn steam locos which makes operating those charters with steam the more awkward. In terms of its own services if a diesel rescue is required because steam has failed then the 09 is capable of hauling any load the line permits and at the permitted line speed to boot. I have been present when a loco failed in traffic; the timetable was adjusted and luckily on that day an additional loco was already in steam for a wedding charter. That loco and the charter were coupled to a retimed service train and no trip was lost. That would not be possible on all operating days and neither is it viable to always have a stand-by loco in steam. Though for expected busy days that would be a prudent move if it is not already done if only to avoid disruption, delays and disappointment. Charters are a bit of a curates egg really. On quiet days they can bring welcome extra visitors to the railway (providing they actually spend long enough here - the Severn Valley charter had a mere 45minutes at Sheffield Park which was more like 20 if you discount the time taken to get off then rejoin the train), but on days when we are already busy the extra visitors might be too much to cope with. You also have to weigh up the balance between accepting a charter and disrupting your regular service and timetable to accommodate it - and from what I understand the Bluebell has already rejected at least one summertime charter for that very reason. However charters themselves (or the lack of them) are not not the be all and end all when it comes to having a mainline connection. From the Bluebell's side it made the delivery of ballast for the recent work on Freshfield MUCH cheaper than a couple of years ago when it had to be trucked in by road. Then there was the fact it gave the oppotunity of the black five to come over the winter without lowloaders being involved, plus Network Rail were very appreciative of us doing them a favour in taking delivery of those water tanks and bogie flats for the Network Rail Railhead Treatment Train that were delivered to Sheffield Park last autumn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jbqfc Posted March 19, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2014 Prices for admission are getting much to high and will put many punters off. Bluebell http://www.bluebell-railway.com/timetable-and-fares/fares-2014/ Family ticket £45.50 Adult return £16.50 GCR the first one I looked at http://www.gcrailway.co.uk/timetables-and-fares/ Family ticket £34 Adult all day £15 The paying general public wont realise or care what the Bluebell are doing. They will simply look at the price for day out with their kids and think no chance and go elsewhere or simply not bother at all. the 16.50 ticket on the Bluebell is an all day ticket but is not made very clear on the web site Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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