Bluebell Railway news

[Gwiwer]

Firstly thanks to Ian for bringing some impartial balance to what is for some clearly an emotive subject.

 

As I stated today was the only day I had available for this visit on a tightly-packed and largely business-based itinerary. I was well aware of the diesel gala but marking the tenth anniversary of a school-friends reunion mitigated in favour of the visit which I would not otherwise have made simply because of the traction.

 

I can find heritage diesels on many other lines. Traditionally the Bluebell has only run steam on pasenger services.

 

The other points are factual. Despite many standing passengers (mostly at opening windows) there were plenty of seats free on those trains we used: 10.02 HK-EG, 10.40 EG-SP, 13.30 SP-EG, 14.30 EG-SP and 16.00 SP-HK

 

The Bluebell is of course at liberty to run their railway as they see fit but personally I find it a shame that they feel it necessary to even consider a diesel gala.

 

As I noted above I had no better luck at New Romney last Saturday when there was no hint or advertisement that diesels were in operation and in-steam locos idle though in fairness both might conceivably have been failed. So the Bluebell isn't alone in failing to provide what most average visitors expected on the day.

[phil-b259]

The Bluebell is of course at liberty to run their railway as they see fit but personally I find it a shame that they feel it necessary to even consider a diesel gala.

 

 So the Bluebell isn't alone in failing to provide what most average visitors expected on the day.

 

 

Look, with the greatest of respect THIS WEEKEND HAS NEVER BEEN MARKETED AS AN ORDINARY WEEKEND. From the moment the 2015 timetable was published this weekend has been highlighted in ALL publicity material as a 'special Event Days'. The use of the word 'special' should mean something unusual is going on and a visitor needs to check what that might be and in this case a look at the list of special event days (in the same leaflet) quite clearly states it a 'Diesel Gala'.

 

True, casual visitors turning up on this weekend might well be caught out, but its not as though the railway hadn't done everything in its power to keep potential visitors informed - however there is only so much you can do. (As an aside, I am personally quite frankly appalled at how little personal responsibility people seem willing to take for their actions or omissions in general these days.... but I digress)

 

It is also true to say that in the past it could be assumed that steam was guaranteed (even if it was a 'special' day), but times are changing and so does the railway. For a long time the railway was constrained by the ideas and thoughts of the Late Bernard Holden, but since his passing new and younger people have taken charge with fresh ideas and fresh thinking. You may say that is a bad thing - but to be brutally honest the legislative, commercial and social environment the railway is operating in today is very different from back in the 80s or 90s. The Bluebell can only survive if it adapts and is willing to grasp opportunities when they occur. However I think you need to appreciate that just as a couple of trees do not make a wood and a couple of bees don't make a swarm, having 2 diesel only days out of a possible 80 odd does not mean the railway has fundamentally changed.

 

As an aside that is one of the advantages of not having 'resident' diesels - you don't have owning groups wanting to run them all year round and the hire costs mean the pressure is on to keep any visits to as shorter duration as possible.

 

In any case, shame or not the bottom line, is we need more money. Its something most people fail to realise but with pretty much all Heritage railways the money from ticket sales, catering and the gift shop only just about  cover the running costs of the line (IIRC we were £5000 short when the accounts for 2014 came in). By running costs I mean the coal bill, the gas bill, electric bill, the cost of buying loo rolls, lubricating oil, catering supplies, the annual fee to keep us connected to NR, the cost of employed staff wages + pensions, etc. It does not generally cover big ticket things like extensive infrastructure work, motive power / rolling stock restorations or even large relaying / infrastructure jobs. These later items are basically dependent on donations, grants (as in the recent example to create what is basically a kids playroom inside one of our bogie vans - thus getting money to restore the van itself), receipts from commercial work like filming, or special services / gala days (e.g. Santa specials, WW2 weekend, diesel galas, steam galas, etc)

 

In the case of the Bluebell, as in the period from 2010 - 2013 EVERY LAST PENNY that could be spared had to be thrown at getting the tip cleared, there is a massive backlog of stuff that needs doing. Most of the track (not yet relaid by us) between Sheffield Park and Horsted not yet tackled needs replacement (whats there currently dating from the 30s I believe), Horsted station itself is in desperate need of some TLC, we desperately need more undercover accommodation for our rolling stock - the forced withdrawn of Lilian for example will cause a big drop in catering revenue until the 30 odd seats she provided on the Golden Arrow can be replaced and while we may now be in a improving situation motive power wise, the situation is far from ideal. Our commercial director has seen how, a well organised and attended diesel gala has the potential to produce a significant profit and this is more than we would normally generate on a standard weekend. Thus why not give it a go? The one we held over a year ago (at very little risk due to the time of year it took place) was encouraging and has been a significant reason why this weekends gala was approved by the board. Once the figures are in etc and the takings checked we will know whether it is worth repeating in some form next year.

 

The membership of the society at large has made it quite clear that they do not want mainline diesels based at the railway (a stance I support by the way) and this does not look like changing anytime soon. Those behind the diesel weekend know that they are skating on relatively thin ice in the sense that as long as it makes a profit the society will tolerate it but the moment it starts merely breaking even or dare I say loses money (like quite a few other diesel galas held elsewhere over the years have) then the society will rise up and kill the idea.

 

So if when the results come in, it turns out we have not made a reasonable profit on this weekends activities then I asure you I would be against repeating it in 2016. If on the other hand it makes money then I would say its worth a go next year.

 

Of course in say 25 years the makeup of the society will be different and they could potentially be more diesel friendly - but any such change would have to be gradual so steam lovers should be reassured that the unique selling point of the Bluebell (to use marketing speak) remains unchanged - i.e. If you turn up on an ORDINARY operating day be it during the week or at the weekend (as highlighted in the timetable) you are GUARANTEED to have haulage by a steam locomotive.

Edited April 19, 2015 by phil-b259

[cromptonnut]

The membership of the society at large has made it quite clear that they do not want mainline diesels based at the railway (a stance I support by the way) and this does not look like changing anytime soon.

 

On the flip side, if the Bluebell had resident diesels and regular diesel haulage/mixed traffic days then I'd strongly consider becoming a member - but at the moment, it offers little to tempt my interests.  I am almost certainly not alone in this.

 

In 10, 20 or whatever years time, the balance has to tip where there are far less people around that can remember mainline steam in the UK than there are that don't (I'm one of them) and that's a fact.  There'll be a point when Class 66's are considered heritage traction (and not just an added attraction at a diesel gala because it hasn't been used for passenger haulage before).

 

Tornado and other "new build" steam locos - and completely irrelevant locos like GWR ones - are positively welcomed on the Bluebell yet appropriate diesel (or electric - let's not forget the line could have remained open and electrified) from the Southern is shunned let alone "irrelevant" locos like the Deltics.

 

What happens when the time comes that boiler tickets run out and there isn't enough steam left serviceable at the Bluebell to maintain a service?  Shut down, or use diesel.  It's that simple.  There are plenty of 'out of service' locos at the Bluebell already.  I'd love to see the Adams Radial run again (my grandparents lived in Axminster and would have used the Lyme Regis line regularly so it's inevitable they'd have travelled behind 488 at some point) and for me that would be a massive pull.  But there's seemingly no plans for that to be running again in the foreseeable future.

 

I've never understood why we can't all get along and play nicely.  Sure, there are as many diesel anti-steam fans as there are steam anti-diesel fans out there - but let's not forget the majority of people who are quite happy with either.

 

Remember "Evening Star" was built in 1960.  The same year that the Class 33's were being built.

[cromptonnut]

An update for anyone heading to the Bluebell today, just heard on the local radio station that there are road closures in East Grinstead due to a building fire.  Unconnected to the railway of course but it may cause some delays and disruption if you're driving there.

 

B2110 West Sussex - B2110 College Lane in East Grinstead closed in both directions between the A264 Blackwell Road junction and the High Street junction

 

Of course, no idea how long this may last.  Could all be gone before anyone who's planning on getting there arrives.

 

Updates at http://www.bbc.co.uk/travel/sussex/incidents/road

[bigherb]

Well I'm going today. I've had enough rides behind a P class, standard or Mogul, it gives me a chance to do something different and hear and ride behind a Deltic somewhere local to me.

[Jonboy]

My first thought on reading this debate is fair play to the members who have still turned out to help the event even though they don't support the traction - it can be all too easy for volunteers to find alternative plans if they don't like a planned activity....

[cromptonnut]

My first thought on reading this debate is fair play to the members who have still turned out to help the event even though they don't support the traction - it can be all too easy for volunteers to find alternative plans if they don't like a planned activity....

 

Good point.  Are they supporting the railway ... or just enjoying their favourite trains?

[Gwiwer]

I have always found that Bluebell staff, paid or otherwise, take great pride in the uniform and behave as though it has been hard-earned rather than just an option for a sunny day if you feel in the mood.  That is a part of the traditional and professional feel of the whole operation which some other railways do not match.

 

As an incidental I should mention that I am well aware of the former Horsted Keynes - Copyhold Junction electrification being a long-time Southern Electric enthusiast.  When Ardingly reopens and if any future extension towards Haywards Heath becomes possible I would support that line being operated by appropriate electric traction if such became feasible.  The East Kent Railway has already achieved a novel solution to the "third rail problem" and has run electrically-powered trains.

 

The Ardingly extension is still a long way in the future though the diverging route at HK used as carriage storage states an intention in the most positive way possible.

[rockershovel]

If people like diesels and they bring in money, let them run.

 

Personally, I detest them - they remind me of a deeply depressing period of commuting to London in life-expired carriage stock hauled by failing locos, as the much-delayed and in some ways, misconceived ECML electrification staggered to its feet; but that's a personal thing.

 

The Adams Radial is a unique and very handsome loco, surely it's worth a few smelly boxes to see THAT?

[pete_mcfarlane]

As I noted above I had no better luck at New Romney last Saturday when there was no hint or advertisement that diesels were in operation and in-steam locos idle though in fairness both might conceivably have been failed. So the Bluebell isn't alone in failing to provide what most average visitors expected on the day.

IIRC their two diesels have regular booked turns alongside the steam locos. When my Grandparents used to live in Hythe (20+ years back) the lunchtime departure from Hythe was always worked by a diesel. 

[cromptonnut]

The following photo is shared from Facebook's "Preserved Diesels" group, taken by Jonathan Hughes and shared with permission.

 

Today's second train of the day - the quieter day, of course, and taking into account the event clashed with the reasonably close Epping & Ongar full diesel gala and an event at Barrow Hill, which clearly would have spread out the limited number of diesel enthusiasts quite thinly.

 

 

The accompanying caption:

I'm sure that in the end, few doubted that the Bluebell Railway's Deltic weekend would be anything other than a success, but the crowded platforms this morning as the day's second up train crosses the day's first down train at Hosted Keynes were quite something. So here's a busy station on the Bluebell... lots of fare paying passengers and three diesels and not a steam engine in sight. I did still hear some staff warning visitors at the ticket booths that there were no steam trains this weekend, but the response I heard each time was along the lines of "yes we know"... so hopefully we can look forward to more of this.

 

[DelticBlade]

I couldn't get to the Deltic weekend. If I had been able to I would have gone to support what I think was a real groundbreaking move. Normally I wouldn't go to places like the Bluebell due to a lack of diesel action. Interesting to see people talking about the Bluebell struggling when it had to pay to rebuild the line. What can be better than getting something really different in and making a fair amount of money for a weekend? It just shows that (some diesels) will drag the punters in.

[slilley]

I have just had a very enjoyable two days on the Bluebell with my wife. We have spent time riding up and down on locos I haven't ridden behind in years. I caught up with some friends and was able to travel over the extension from Kingscote to East Grinstead for the first time.

 

I know that Deltics are not everyone's cup of tea, my tastes are quite broad, steam ,diesel and electric, but I have to say that the Bluebell staff were very professional (even if they were not being paid). I am only saddened by the fact that there were some passengers yesterday who got very drunk and behaved extremely badly, dropping litter, screaming obscenities at photographers and film makers as the train went past and using bad language in front of very small children. I just hope these louts didn't spoil to many people's enjoyment of what was a first class weekend.

[Deltic]

There seems no doubt from views here and at the railway that using something 'special' on a rare basis will bring in some extra cash - important to the railway and the loco owning group. I think that a Western theme for 2016 could well mirror what this weekend has produced. As to using diesels, we all need to remember that today's children are tomorrow's volunteers - and some only have a real interest in diesels. Yes some may just like steam, for some they will have an eclectic taste - whatever brings in money to keep preservation in the black rather than the red must be good.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Deltic

[pete_mcfarlane]

I am only saddened by the fact that there were some passengers yesterday who got very drunk and behaved extremely badly, dropping litter, screaming obscenities at photographers and film makers as the train went past and using bad language in front of very small children. I just hope these louts didn't spoil to many people's enjoyment of what was a first class weekend.

Sadly these drunken weirdos seem to be standard feature of diesel galas.

[cromptonnut]

Sadly these drunken weirdos seem to be standard feature of diesel galas.

 

No "excess alcohol consumption" ever at a steam event then?

Edited April 19, 2015 by cromptonnut

[Oldddudders]

Sadly these drunken weirdos seem to be standard feature of diesel galas.

And another quote from Facebook today:

 

"A Sussex correspondent reports:

 

'Most worrying sight of the Bluebell's Deltic weekend: a man sitting in the observation car, immediately behind one of the engines. With his doll.

 

He would also sit in the buffet car, unpack all of his models, and then shout at any children who so much as dared to look at them.'

Oh dear"

 

I offer no view about steam or diesel bringing out the nutters - but no-one need people like him about.

[PGC]

And another quote from Facebook today:

 

"A Sussex correspondent reports:

 

'Most worrying sight of the Bluebell's Deltic weekend: a man sitting in the observation car, immediately behind one of the engines. With his doll.

 

He would also sit in the buffet car, unpack all of his models, and then shout at any children who so much as dared to look at them.'

Oh dear"

 

I offer no view about steam or diesel bringing out the nutters - but no-one need people like him about.

 

There are many people in society who behave in this way - they almost always have learning difficulties and need to be tolerated to a degree. Whenever the Domestic Goddess takes these people in to town (so guess what she does for a living), she is in control of them and I would suggest that if the gentleman referred to is in the category of having learning difficulties, someone should also have been accompanying him. However, previous governments have been pushing the "care in the community" and what "should" be done isn't always!

 

Going back to the question of "to diesel or not to diesel" at the Bluebell, could I politely suggest that people realise the railway is not a toy. It is a business, and it has shareholders who will want their dividend, operating costs etc., and therefore has to make ends meet. It has set out it's aims and therefore guarantees steam working except on special event days. If running these special event days helps them to keep the bottom line in the positive, we would be as well to welcome such days, whether we like them or not, rather than see the line go under.

 

Phil

[cromptonnut]

Does anyone have idea of ticket sales for the Deltic weekend yet, compared to an average April weekend?

[deltic17]

No exact details but it was obviously many times more attended than if a standard service was operating.

 

I noticed on their Blog (Latest News & Photos) they stated "the railway is very pleased to have received so many hugely positive comments about the Diesel Gala" & "we are so pleased that such a large number of people enjoyed themselves". I think that sums it up pretty well.

 

One other thing I thought was good was the driver for a fiver (I paid £8 for my 2 children & I) on the Sentinel shunter at Horsted Keynes from the station to the bottom of the yard. I had a go late on the Sunday and those running it said they had virtually filled all of the 10 minute slots over the whole 3 days. So that is good for the Bluebell to the tune of say £500-£750 and it provided another activity for those waiting for trains. Also the free class 09 & Brake Vans trips (donations were accepted) deserve a mention too at Sheffield Park.

 

It all ran very smoothly so well done to all individuals involved, the Bluebell, the Deltic Preservation Society and to D9009 & 55019 for performing so well over the 3 days.

 

It also showed to me how you don't necessarily need to have loads and loads of engines to have an excellent Diesel Gala.

 

Obviously one advantage of a Deltic or say a Western is if one power unit causes trouble you've always got the other one as a back up. If you have other locos that say only have one power unit then maybe a few more need to be hired in just in case of the odd failure.

 

I heard a fair few people saying what about a Western,Warship & Hymek event next year? I'm sure that would be a great success too. Some of the Bluebell staff seemed to be genuinely interested in our views as to what could be done in future - probably this time next year?....possibly some of the same staff who after the DMU,Class33 & 2 shunters mini Gala in 2014 said we'll have to do this in 2015 but bigger and that is just what they achieved.

 

So overall full marks to the everyone concerned - a 10/10 event for me.

Edited April 23, 2015 by deltic17

[DavidH]

No "excess alcohol consumption" ever at a steam event then?

 

Oh yes, certainly; but I've never seen drunks screaming obscenities at people as their train goes past at a steam event.

[roythebus]

According to my son, a Bluebell volunteer, the take per day was the same as the usual weekend take. He did mention figures but I won't mention them on here. So 3 times the usual revenue for the 3 day event.

[Torn-on-the-platform]

Giants of Steam returns to the calendar this year, 31st October and 1st November. Britannia and Cheltenham are the visitors, with the anticipated return of Camelot.

 

Here's what a Britannia (the other one!) looks like on Bluebell metals:

 

This is what I am most looking forward to seeing (2004):

 

Whilst I have a few photos of Cheltenham, none of them are really worth reproduction.

[Neal Ball]

Giants of Steam as stated above is the last weekend in October, to include Britannia and Cheltenham.

 

Will also include BR Standard No. 73082 Camelot (due to return to steam any day now); 

 

Subject to availability we should have the following locomotives on an intensive service:

* BR Class 7 Pacific No.70000 "Britannia"
* SR Schools-class No.925 "Cheltenham"
* SR S15-class 4-6-0 No.847
* SR Q-class No.30541

 

Plus: Again subject to the same availability clause as above, next week - Friday 25th September, see's another charter coming onto the railway from BR metals... a GBRF charter with a Hastings Thumper uniy. Details will be on the official Facebook page / website shortly.

 

Regards, Neal.

[Guest]

Giants of Steam returns to the calendar this year, 31st October and 1st November. Britannia and Cheltenham are the visitors, with the anticipated return of Camelot.

 

Here's what a Britannia (the other one!) looks like on Bluebell metals:

November (69) crop small.jpg

 

This is what I am most looking forward to seeing (2004):

camelot edit.jpg

 

Whilst I have a few photos of Cheltenham, none of them are really worth reproduction.

Hope it's alright if I share one then, albeit nowhere near the Bluebell...

 

925 Cheltenham, at Swanage:

 

Regards,

Matt