hayfield Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 As its January why not start the new year building/finishing those kits we have squirrelled away or those which need finishing. They are not hard to build, providing you use some simple processes. For those who get (or got) stuck during the building process this is an ideal thread to get help. Hopefully this will be a joint share and show thread with loads joining in. Very few tools are required, most if not all the railway modeller will have. The odd gauge is desirable (and cheap) but not necessary There is quite a thread going on about better ready to lay track, so there is a need for better looking turnouts. I think there are plenty of those who would either like a go at it or just need a little nudge to finish what they have started, More than happy for any style or gauge or scale to be tackled. In fact the more the merrier. Copperclad, ply and rivet. Peco, SMP, Exactoscale etcI have even got an old Peco spiked point if anyone's interested I will start off with a kit I have which is a very basic C&L plastic sleeper and chair one. But please join in with any type make or method. This basic one comes with sleepers, chairs and instructions. You provide plan and rail. Cost of kit £10.20 I have added a pre-built common crossing and plan to the photo just to give an idea of what you get They also do a kit where the common crossing and switch rails are pre-made and rail, tie bars, plan and gauges are provided. Cost £41 I will start of with the basics from setting out the plan. I notice from the photo I have chosen a P4 C&L plan, but here is an offer I am happy to build a standard 00 gauge turnout, just to show all you need is a basic roller gauge or digital calliper. On the other hand I am happy to build either a P4, EM or 00-SF which do need a couple of extra gauges in the build process, just to show these are just as easy to make, I will build the common crossing and switch blades and hopefully will show that they are not too difficult to build, with the use of a couple of home made aids. If you have them ready built you will have been saved Please join in whether you are a novice or experienced track builder happy to share tips Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted January 5, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5, 2014 So how are you going to build that B6 using that 1:7 crossing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Budgie Well spotted, I wont be using the 1-7 crossing as its steel rail and I will use nickel-silver, I did say I added it for information only. As I said, I will show a method of building a common crossing with a home made building aid, along with showing how easy it is to file up a set of point blades. waiting for requests for gauge (not scale!!). I am assembling a coach body tonight, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Hi John, Many thanks for starting this as I have a couple of turnout kits that are waiting to be started! I have had some instruction on starting pointwork before but I keep losing motivation so this will be very welcome. Many thanks, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 John Welcome to the thread, just what I had in mind someone just needing a slight nudge to start. What kits have you to build? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Good initiative John. I've built a few, mostly copperclad, but plan to move into a hybrid of C&L and rivet & ply construction. I think the common crossing is the trickiest thing to get right so I'll be interested to see how you tackle it. My references are Iain Rice's Finescale Track and Geary & Shaw's Trax2. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Hi John, My two kits are a C&L full point kit much the same as yours above, 18.83 gauge, only I gave it to a mate and when it came back, all the (plastic) timbers etc were there but all the rail had been used! I'm pretty sure I can now replicate everything though. The other is a full C&L "Timber tracks" kit again 18.83 gauge and is a B6. Can't remember without checking what number the plastic kit is. These kits were bought before I'd learned how to build crossing vees etc! Cheers, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Still need that push to open the bag to find what is inside ... The bench is too crowded at the moment after opening boxes at new Year (wagons present no fear in comparison) ... I think I'll wait to see more progress and others throwing hats into the topic before I'm persuaded to open the bag. [Ed] But I will overcome and be back a bit later ... a dare is a dare .. just need to finish off a couple of items ..... famous last words. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 John Good luck with the ply and rivet part. I have all the tools and parts and had a go at building them, but found they can be a bit high maintenance. Where as plastic chairs have now proved their longevity, Still I welcome as much verity as possiable Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Hi John, My two kits are a C&L full point kit much the same as yours above, 18.83 gauge, only I gave it to a mate and when it came back, all the (plastic) timbers etc were there but all the rail had been used! I'm pretty sure I can now replicate everything though. The other is a full C&L "Timber tracks" kit again 18.83 gauge and is a B6. Can't remember without checking what number the plastic kit is. These kits were bought before I'd learned how to build crossing vees etc! Cheers, John E. John Two nice mixtures there, though I am glad you have a Timber Tracks turnout and not a slip or crossing. Reason they use the same fret for both EM and P4 gauges, where they should be different lengths, no problem with turnouts but the fret would need stretching for slips and crossings in P4. Its all in the mind about building common crossings, a bit of practice will make perfect Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Still need that push to open the bag to find what is inside ... The bench is too crowded at the moment after opening boxes at new Year (wagons present no fear in comparison) ... I think I'll wait to see more progress and others throwing hats into the topic before I'm persuaded to open the bag. Kenton Great to have you aboard, hopefully you will be ripping it open sooner rather than later Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 John Good luck with the ply and rivet part. I have all the tools and parts and had a go at building them, but found they can be a bit high maintenance. Where as plastic chairs have now proved their longevity, Still I welcome as much verity as possiable I picked up the ply and rivets in a job lot from an estate sale. I'm rather dubious about the strength of the glued chairs at the crossing and the ability of slide chairs to retain the rail (I have had a couple of stabs at C&L points). I think conventional wisdom is to use copper clad at strategic points but this means chairs have to be left off. I think by using the ply and rivets at the crossing and slide chairs, the point will be more robust AND will have all the detail. As Kenton, said, the workbench is a bit crowded at the moment so it's all wishful thinking for now. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueeighties Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Hi John, (As in Mr Hayfield!) You built a curved crossover for me a couple of Years ago, don't know if you remember. I got so far with constructing pointwork, but just couldn't crack smooth running over the common crossing. I went for Peco code 75 and Exactoscale plaintrack. Times change, my hobby is now my business. With new experience and ideas comes a need to improve the layout, so I am currently drawing up new plans, and I would like to build all of the pointwork this time around, never was entirely happy with Peco. I shall be following this thread with interest, thanks for taking the time to post on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 John A very easy solution, you can use either scrap brass shim from an etched kit, or as I do 0.6mm copperclad strip. 3 pieces hold all together where sleepers are, once filed flush with the outside of the rails half chairs will but up against. All will become clear. There is from what I remember a problem in getting enough rivets around the Vee to keep all together in the ply and rivet method and whenever you punch a hole in the sleeper it weakens it. You could use a copperclad sleeper with brass shim between rail and sleeper for a bomb proof crossing and still be able to use chairs, but that's a bit over the top I have got most of my stuff off Ebay and a bit from a local shop. Have had 2 rivet punch/press machines, decided to sell 1 and just kept the other just in case Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Lee I do remember, you do all the weathering. Its far easier to build a turnout than weather a loco, you need talent for that. Start off with an easy one. However OO-SF will be better than OO as there will be less chance of wheel drop and the common crossings are finer. Virtually all OO stock will run through it without any problems Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueeighties Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Hiya. I cleverly sold my 00 sf gauges the last time I spat my dummy out and gave up....are they still obtainable? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 John A very easy solution, you can use either scrap brass shim from an etched kit, or as I do 0.6mm copperclad strip. 3 pieces hold all together where sleepers are, once filed flush with the outside of the rails half chairs will but up against. All will become clear. There is from what I remember a problem in getting enough rivets around the Vee to keep all together in the ply and rivet method and whenever you punch a hole in the sleeper it weakens it. You could use a copperclad sleeper with brass shim between rail and sleeper for a bomb proof crossing and still be able to use chairs, but that's a bit over the top I have got most of my stuff off Ebay and a bit from a local shop. Have had 2 rivet punch/press machines, decided to sell 1 and just kept the other just in case Thanks for the advice John. I'm still working my way through this trying to find the best methods. I can well imagine how the rivet hole weakens the ply. Looking forward to more pictures. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 Hiya. I cleverly sold my 00 sf gauges the last time I spat my dummy out and gave up....are they still obtainable? Lee I think they are and the chap that sells them is a member of the forum. I must admit that it is very frustrating when we get stuck, I tend to leave an item perhaps a couple of hours or a day or so when I cant see the wood for the trees. A fresh mind does work, or someone else's is even better. Its a great pity we just cant go down the road and pick these things up at the local model shop. The one thing I admire at the Games Workshop (I think that's the correct name for the war & fantasy games shop) is the way the staff interact with the customers. Both building and painting figures and also playing with them. Something other model shops could learn from. That's one thing I remember from a model shop in Mill Hill, one of the two brothers always had something ( model being built) on the go for all to see. Sadly closed years ago Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 Thanks for the advice John. I'm still working my way through this trying to find the best methods. I can well imagine how the rivet hole weakens the ply. Looking forward to more pictures. John John Normally there is a simple solution and quite often several variations. Perhaps making the common crossing should be the first thing on the agenda for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 John Normally there is a simple solution and quite often several variations. Perhaps making the common crossing should be the first thing on the agenda for you. Now there I do agree, more than one right way to do the job and usually it's finding the method that works for you. I have made a number of code 100 copper clad points (which as an added bonus actually work) as I said but my future goal is to develop my skill and experience to make more detailed and accurate points. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 The first job is to obtain a plan, now you may have one of the C&L plans Or a Templot plan And I enclose an Exactoscale plan, whilst in P4 it does show extra chair detail which may assist in building and other gauges/scales On the other hand it could be from one of the societies (EM, P4 etc). It makes no odds which make other than it must be of good quality. Templot as a building plan is super, the one I have printed is a B6(OO-SF) with a 69" radius. I could increase it to a B6.25 and the radius increases to 74", bend it gently to a 5000mm radius and the branch road radius reduces to 54". Now I have probably lost some of you, but it just proves you are not limited to set sizes, or fixed radii. And building a curved turnout is realy no harder than building a straight one Why have I complicated matters by introducing an Exactoscale P4 plan, well here is a close up of a C&L plan Here you can see that at the common crossing some of the chairs alter. Next the Exactoscale plan The chairs are a bit more detailed. During the construction I will cover the use of additional special chairs, Now you can build a very detailed turnout from the standard and slide chairs included in the kits. On the other hand for a little additional expense you can have a little extra detail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 I would like to see a standard 00 one first, and I assume that most novices would start there. Linthorpe Not a problem at all, OO gauge is slightly easier as it has a greater in built tolerance of 0.2mm (against the likes or OO-SF or EM gauges), does not sound much but is a lot when using gauges. I will wait a bit in case any one else replies Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted January 6, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 6, 2014 Firstly, great idea for a thread and a nice counterpoint (bad track pun alert) to the other thread on RTL track. I have just been putting the finishing touches to a batch of 4mm OO gauge points, so althoug they are not really kits, I hope I can join in a bit. After all, the only difference is that the bits I have used have come out of several packets, not one, they are exactly the same as provided in a kit. I would say that I have built many points over the years. Mostly in EM for myself but sometimes I build track for other folks and so I have done a fair number in OO as well. The total must be well over 100 now. One or two of my methods are not what you would call industry standard and I appreciate that there are many ways to build a point but this is how I do it. Firstly, the plan. Although the points are OO, I have used EMGS templates, shrunked down slightly on the computer. There are two reasons for this. One is that I have them handy and the second is that I have some of my own thoughts about what makes OO track look good, which centre greatly on the way the proportions are tampered with to accomodate the less that smaller track gauge. Any attempt that I have ever made to use true 4mm sleepering arrangements has ended up looking a bit "narrow gauge" because the sleepers are too wide and too far apart compared to the gauge. I have used plastic sleepers but I prefer wooden ones and a mainly glued (Butanone) construction. It is plenty strong enough and it is easier to correct mistakes as a thin sharp blade will get a chair off a wooden sleeper easier than it will off a plastic one. So, off we go..... The plan is fixed to a flat small board, to allow it to be picked up, turned round and viewed from all angles. The sleepers have been cut to length and stuck down with double sided tape. The straight stock rail has chairs threaded on and is glued in place using a steel rule to ensure straightness. Chairs are omitted on 3 sleepers for the check rail and for the slide chairs. The first crossing nose rail has been filed to a point and glued in place using a straight Tracksetta as a gauge. The second crossing nose rail has been filed to a point and is attached using plastic chairs. No soldering yet. Although the plan has been shrunken, the crossing angle remains the same and so the plan is used as the guide for this. Filing rail has been described many times but as a rule of thumb, if you are making a 1 in 6, the tapered portion should be as near 6mm long as you can get it. The second stock rail has a small bend or "set" put in it where the blade ends. This forms a small rebate for the blade to fit nicely up to. the end of the stock rail is fixed in place using the gauge. The heel end of the curved stock rail is fixed. The L gauge is actually an EM Back to Back gauge but is very useful as it measures 16.5mm. The stock rail through the crossing should be straight, hence the straight Tracksetta. These points will work smoothly before the check rails are fitted if the alignment through the crossing nose is good. A curved Tracksetts is used to ensure a nice smooth curve through the point. I have had problems in the past where this part goes wrong, usually when I just let the rail take a natural curve. It always ended up with two straights and a sharp curve between them. Since using the curved guide, my running through points has improved massively. Probably enough for one post! If this thread just encourages one or two people to have a go at building their own points, it will have served a very useful purpose indeed! Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueeighties Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Such a useful thread already! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 Tony You have added another way of doing the same thing, I like the way you use the Tracksetter for the curves. I would suggest the use of existing plans rather than scaled up/down ones for the first turnouts. The other thing to mention, is that plans are just guides not blueprints, Use gauges or callipers for setting the gauge etc. Also do check simple things like the centre point for the Vee. I started to build a turnout using a well known fret only to find that the centre point was not in the centre. As for mixing parts, most are interchangeable. And as you have said wooden sleepers are very forgiving and can be adjusted. Using the correct solvent/glue is essential but surprising how strong the bond is between wood and plastic Such a useful thread already! Lee Why have you not started ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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