br2975 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 PS. I'm looking at ways of making coal wagon loads which look realistic, yet are easily & quickly removed or dropped in to the wagons removable loads often have an all too visible gap between load and wagon sides, to my eye I'd like to use loose, finely sieved real coal - but wouldn't that take too long to load? "The 4mm Coal Wagon" by Wild Swan describes using the round insulation foam for lagging pipes, cut lengthwise and then trimmed to fit wagons, then black coloured PVA is painted on top, coated with sieved coal. . I may be able to help you out there (I have the book in my collection) - just remind me at some stage. . Don't forget, some collieries shipped out differing grades of coal - others may have a single (e.g. power station) contract shipping but one grade. . Throw in a few Internal Use wagons as well Marc, an excuse for some beaten up seven plank wooden bodied models (that wouldn't suit any other project) languishing in the scrap box ? . Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 "The 4mm Coal Wagon" by Wild Swan describes using the round insulation foam for lagging pipes, cut lengthwise and then trimmed to fit wagons, then black coloured PVA is painted on top, coated with sieved coal. . I may be able to help you out there (I have the book in my collection) - just remind me at some stage. . Don't forget, some collieries shipped out differing grades of coal - others may have a single (e.g. power station) contract shipping but one grade. . Throw in a few Internal Use wagons as well Marc, an excuse for some beaten up seven plank wooden bodied models (that wouldn't suit any other project) languishing in the scrap box ? . Brian Yes please Brian I'd like to take a look at that book Re internal use wagons, I've noticed in several photos and video clips, there are sometimes BR vans - presumably for transport of supplies, tools, repair equipment etc? and a few ex BR brake vans parked here & there... At this rate, there'll be nothing left in my scrap box! .... wait a minute, what's in those 4 boxes under there? Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2014 Yes please Brian I'd like to take a look at that book Re internal use wagons, I've noticed in several photos and video clips, there are sometimes BR vans - presumably for transport of supplies, tools, repair equipment etc? and a few ex BR brake vans parked here & there... At this rate, there'll be nothing left in my scrap box! .... wait a minute, what's in those 4 boxes under there? Marc Don't forget also Marc that collieries etc had a nasty habit of 'borrowing' traffic wagons - it was quite interesting to see what turned up when the initial TOPs surveys were done and brakevans or vans (in particular) which hadn't run on BR for months or even years in some cases were 'found' lurking in NCB sidings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 Thanks again for your thoughts and information Stationmaster and BrianI've just been toying with a few tweaksas I've often said in the past, we don't see enough disused, rusting or partially-lifted trackwork modelledIt might be a bit too much trackwork in such a small area,but I've been pondering adding a short section of disused track in the foreground of the layoutPerhaps mainly buried in grot, or even with a tatty disused wagon parked on it?Or some rusty old mining equipment in a dilapidated old 5 plank?Let me know what you think. Is it overkill for such a small layout?Marc 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted January 15, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2014 Overkill if it was an active track, but fine if it's disused and rusty, so that it blends in with the rest of the scene, I'd say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted January 15, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2014 Re graffiti,more than twenty years hence I suspect but how about, "Come home to a real fire....buy a Welsh cottage" Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) Apart from your modelling inspiration Marc, Pontardulais has one other claim to fame. . Max Boyce's second LP - "We all had doctors papers" was recorded live at Pontardulais RFC. It was released in October 1975 and went into the LP Chart at No.9, rising to No.1 (for one week only) - thus becoming the only comedy LP ever to top the UK Album Chart. .. Brian R . Sorry about the diversion Marc - If your added track is overgrown and derelict- or set in concrete or granite setts - , I think it will look fine. . To me, overgrown / inset track doesn't appear as intrusive as when all the sleepers are visible, and emphasised by ballast etc. . Says he, laying granite setts throughout the current project................ and now driven close to the edge (of the board ?). . Edited January 16, 2014 by br2975 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
060shunter Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Overkill if it was an active track, but fine if it's disused and rusty, so that it blends in with the rest of the scene, I'd say. Well, Barry and Marc, I have seen a good many mini-layouts in the model press in recent years, and my first (and oft repeated) reaction was 'Why, What for? What's the point?' But with this layout, I thought I discerned a little of what was in your alcohol-befuddled mind! You can sit or stand (but probably sit) anywhere close to the layout, and only have to reach out a short way to lay hands on the glass of Welsh Ale on the edge of the baseboard. Then you put track on the most convenient place on which a glass of ale could stand. Was I wrong, then? But No! That bit of track is to be cobbled over, thus retaining the flat area on which to stand said glass. I feel inspired. I hope I still feel the same after I've sobered up! All the very best of luck to you, Marc. It will be great (and truly a miracle!) to see this layout (if that is what is intended) finished and working. Is there a copyright on the design? Barry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Hello Barry / 060shunter,My mind is not befuddled at the moment -but this will be sorted soon, as it's Friday afternoon I rarely stand a glass of ale on the actual layout personally (it might spill!),I always ensure there is sufficient table or shelf space nearby.... The problem is usually where to put a cup of coffee, during a show,or where my assistant operators put their coffee cups lolAnyhow, as I'd stated earlier, I've been considering a design concept like this for some timeI don't think I've seen anyone else with this design - well, not exactly anywayAs railway modelers, we all borrow ideas from other sourcesso I don't think anyone could argue for copyright of the design.....I'm hoping to get a little time this weekend, to make a start.... of some sort Marc 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Quick question for the likes of br2975, and others who may have photos, books or personal recollections....I have something of a penchant for grounded van bodies on a layoutYes, I know this photo is of my O gauge "Poynton Sneer" layoutbut made a 4mm scale grounded van, out of an old, cheap s/h van I picked up in a bargain box sometime backIt's another one of those items I put aside for "one day"a fictional, non-existent future time frame, in which I am able to build many many layouts I'm sure there were once plenty of these, used as storage sheds or crew huts on NCB premises....But did the NCB usually bother painting such things on their properties?and anyone got any photographic examples of them on coal board property?Cheers all EDIT: I forgot to say, I picked up a disused signal box at my local shop "L&B" recently tooIt was in Southern Livery, so I've given it a bit of a repaint, and I'll tweak it a bit,as I also fancy including this on the layout too..... another "quirk" of mine, I'm sure you're all thinking....Will post a photo of these items soon Edited January 21, 2014 by marc smith 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Any use, Marc? http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brbanana/h200a7526#h200a7526 http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/p649315139/h6c2f6b3#h6c2f6b3 The container looks as though someone put some undercoat on before being told 'Don't waste your b****y time' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Ah, thanks Mr Fat Controller sir What would we do without the ever useful, superb archive of Paul Bartlett?They do both look as though they were painted in a pale blue/ grey colour,a bit like the faded version of most steelworks properties...I repainted my example in a faded, shabby version of the usual BR van Bauxitehaving already added ivy and suchlike, I was really thinking I wouldn't repaint it anywayHowever, I do like grounded vans with highly distressed paintwork, as in Paul's superb photos.....Hmmmm.... to repaint, or not to repaint - that is the question I've posted this pic before, but here's a larger example,painted in the old Allied Steel & Wire colours, in the yard at the steelworks in Cardiff..... Edited January 21, 2014 by marc smith 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold mudmagnet Posted January 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2014 Looks great Marc! Just looking at the fuel tank / pump house looks something similar to what I wanted on Acacia Avenue, so will have to 'pinch' tis one! The painted van looks good as well - think I'll store for a future project! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne 37901 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) Hi Marc, Well this is my first post having got used to the Girlfriend's new touch screen tablet. It sounds like this is turning out to be an interesting project. Will look forward to seeing some pictures and seeing it progress. Cheers, Edited January 24, 2014 by Wayne 37901 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) Not much to report, by way of actual modelling progressbut I've been asked several times about how I did the backscene on my O gauge Poynton SneerIt was a commercially available one - Gaugemaster, I'm sureBut I've found sticking photo backscenes in place to be problematicI'm considering doing my own photo-stitched backscene for this little layoutI just wondered if anyone reading this thread has had experience of this?Particularly, where locally, In South Wales they might have had such a backscene printedand what adhesive they may have used?Any thoughts anyone?CheersMarc Edited February 6, 2014 by marc smith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) Hi folks,Latest updateApologies for these latest photos not being quite up to the usual standard,but I took them on my tablet, in poor lightingI could have gone & got my SLR - but laziness prevailed Firstly, I deviated from my initial plan, in that I decided not to use the 3 way point I had lying aroundI'll probably take that to Taunton for sale, if OK with the Captain?I reasoned that I'd prefer the reliability of simpler tie-bars - just in case of failureespecially as the toe end of the 3 way would be underneath the overbridgeand accessibility to both tie bars will be trickyIt hasn't effected the overall look of the design, apart from the sidings being slightly shorterthis doesn't detract IMHOYou'll notice that 2 of the points are already ballastedHere, I'm thankful for the fact I laid them on a paper plan on an old layout I built these copperclad points many years ago - more than I care to think about but in the true spirit of the concept of this buildI really want to use mainly odds & ends I have lying about, unusedSearching my boxes of odds & ends - it's amazing just how much us modelers hoard! The disused signal box is also something I wanted to includeAlthough not in my original plan - I've often thought about including one on a layoutgrowing up in the 70's there were several of these at the linesideand I always thought we don't model enough of this sort of feature,hence the reason I'm also definite on having a rusty, disused siding in the foreground....I've cut my foamboard to shape, and laid foam photo mounting board onto the surfaceThis is a slight departure from my usual foam basebaord construction method,in that I usually lay the foam insulation board onto wooden battens first....This time, I decided to build the layout, and mount onto battens later,to give me the chance to "tweak" the shape and size of the landscape later on in the buildI've never had a problem with foam insulation board warpingand I'm not sure whether this will happen, building the layout in this new fashion....if anyone else has had this problem - please let me know asap Anyhow, enough rambling on from me!MarcEDIT: I also meant to add;I'm not concerned about the difference in sleeper spacing between the handbuilt points & the Peco pointas much of the trackwork will be buried in coal dust & general grot Edited February 17, 2014 by marc smith 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mason Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Looking Good Marc, you always manage to fit an interesting plan into a small space really looks good and look forward to it progressing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 Thanks for your kind words masonI meant to add some thoughts on my previous post;The design is a board with visible section just 3 feet by around 14 inches at its' deepest pointI had originally thought I would build the fiddle yard on a separate boardHowever, I find I quite like having everything on one unitOnce, I almost drove to a show with Hendre Lane - having forgotten to pack the fiddle yard So I'm considering leaving the foam board as one piece - at around 4 feetand building the fiddle yard so that it folds down,like one end of my Cashmores scrapyard-based layoutThis would be more tricky in this case though, as there is a sliding sector-plate in the fiddleAnyone got any useful hints / ideas or thoughts?please share....Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted February 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2014 I don't think it'll warp, but having looked at your earlier modules, I can see that the battens are helpful in giving a solid anchor for the fascia etc. That's the only downside of foam, I think - you have to be a bit creative in fixing stuff onto it so that it won't come off with all the rough handling at exhibitions. I think you are right about not risking a 3-way under a bridge. I didn't put one under a bridge on Paynestown for that reason as it would be bound to cause problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) . I think you are right about not risking a 3-way under a bridge. I didn't put one under a bridge on Paynestown for that reason as it would be bound to cause problems. Snap ................ "Rosamund Street" has two - and I've just had a pig of a time with one going 'dead' every time the switch was thrown to the right hand road. Took me a couple of days to get to the bottom of it, initially I thought it was my home made "frog polarity switches", but all it needed a dropper down to the busbar - simple, but bl**dy annoying. . Before laying the remainder of the granite setts around the pointwork, I think a few more droppers will be called for (don't want it all going Pete Tong this October !). . Brian R Edited February 17, 2014 by br2975 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold mudmagnet Posted February 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2014 Looks good Marc! I think that the track plan looks better with the two points rather than the 3-way. You not tempted by something else following our conversation on Saturday ????? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne 37901 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Marc, Looking good, this is going to be a cracking little project. I second what Mason says, you always manage to make an interesting plan and layout fit a small area. Look forward to following this one. Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 Snap ................ "Rosamund Street" has two - and I've just had a pig of a time with one going 'dead' every time the switch was thrown to the right hand road. Took me a couple of days to get to the bottom of it, initially I thought it was my home made "frog polarity switches", but all it needed a dropper down to the busbar - simple, but bl**dy annoying. . Before laying the remainder of the granite setts around the pointwork, I think a few more droppers will be called for (don't want it all going Pete Tong this October !). . Brian R I have to say, 3 ways are normally fine for me but I have had to add a dropper wire one one and these days, I take care that when weathering track with spray paint not to get paint onto the edges of the switch rails... That has caused me a problem in the past Perhaps we should routinely solder on droppers, before laying the pointwork? My issue with this particular 3 way, is that it is a Marcway it was previously laid on a layout years back but I just envisaged a potential problem with a tie-bar breaking or some similar calamity! Being located under a bridge, and in a tight space between buildings I just thought I'd try to avoid this situation I did re-draw the plan with the 3 way clear of the bridge, but it didn't look quite as good and the sidings ended up slightly shorter than they are using the 2 standard points in the configuration above The design somehow looked less "well balanced" to me As luck would have it, I had these old points lying around unused anyway What I need to do now, is stop dreaming up another plan for the marcway 3 way! Ta for your kind words folks Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 I don't think it'll warp, but having looked at your earlier modules, I can see that the battens are helpful in giving a solid anchor for the fascia etc. That's the only downside of foam, I think - you have to be a bit creative in fixing stuff onto it so that it won't come off with all the rough handling at exhibitions. I think you are right about not risking a 3-way under a bridge. I didn't put one under a bridge on Paynestown for that reason as it would be bound to cause problems. I do hope it won't warp I know Roger (rouse2037) of this neck of the woods has used foam board, without any woodwork for his various narrow gauge layouts... I don't think he's experienced any warping issues as yet As you say, I have previously glued battens in place, to support wood or hardboard which I use as edging protection and a background On this occasion, I just thought it might be nice to lay the track and get some of the structures in place - just to see if I could improve the look and presentation by altering the landscape e.g by maybe re-shaping the foreground or even curving the backscene? I made a curved backscene on my Cashmores based layout and am quite pleased with that feature Marc 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 Just to let you know,I've started track-laying on the through road, at the rear of the layoutI'm considering what to use as a sector-plateI've got some thin wood somewhere....But the possibility of using card, in maybe 3 or 4 "laminations" did cross my mindWould this be sturdy enough?Has anyone used card for this sort of use before?Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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