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Has anyone by any chance built one of these kits?

I bought it a few years ago, and have now started it, to find quite a few fundamental problems - and doing various web searches, I can't find any pictures of any completed models other than the lined blue example shown in the 'instructions'. I'd be extremely interested in anyone's experiences a bit 'further down the line' so to speak!

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So far, to mention the big ones, I've found that the buffer-beam etches were off-centre, so I've replaced those. Likewise the cylinder etches are off and need re-profiling, and the wheels to the driving axle don't fit because of the rear beam on each engine. I've also found that the cab front and back have asymmetrical curves, and don't quite fit the cab sides, which will need shortening to make it work......!

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If there aren't many more major shockers, I'll beat the b*****y thing and get a decent loco out of it - but it would be nice to know what's ahead if someone's been there ahead of me! I've not yet fitted coupling rods to see if the wheels go round together.......

IMG_1305_zpsd7b72e3d.jpg

Edited by Giles
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Giles

I have one of them as a stalled build. You are one up on me though as mine didn't get an instruction book with it as it was bought as a special from Jim Harris under his Acorn brand  (bit of history - what became Mercian, Acorn and Agenoria were three people working together as Wynchbury but this loco caused a major falling out and they went their separate ways). I got a long lecture off Jim that detailed all the errors but I wasn't able to write them all down and now can't remember them all. You will also find the cylinder etches aren't symmetrical!

 

Do us a favour and write up your build. It might inspire me to finish mine

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Will do.......

 

Back in the late 80's I started to design a kit for Dave Andrews for this thing, and did a pile of research, so I've also got the makers GA's and a pile of photos, which are a real help. Digging through my old stuff I'm surprised how far I got.

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I've not taken photos from the beginning, as I wasn't particularly expecting trouble...... Later, I'll scan in the relevent 'instruction sheets' - there are no written instructions, just the hand-drawn exploded drawings and photocopied etches for identification.

 

Here's one of the engines, basically built up

 

IMG_1315_zps27afcd97.jpg

 

IMG_1309_zps3eca3142.jpg

 

Paul has observed that the cylinder etches are off centre - this is correct, and in order to fit the side valances, the 'notches' at the top of the cylinder etches has to be rebated further to allow the valance strips to sit correctly (on one side only). This is assuming you have squared up the foot-plate onto the frames correctly!

 

The cylinder etch on this same side then has to be dressed down with a file to allow the cylinder cladding to sit where it ought to go!

 

Also shown on the bottom photo is the joggle I had to put into the rear beam in order to clear the driven wheels. A bodge, I know....... Having looked vary carefully at the one model I know has been completed, I see that he has done exactly the same thing.....

Edited by Giles
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The buffer beams are a disaster. By all means use them to jig the chassis up, but then take them off and throw them away.

The tab slots are way off centre, so the buffer beam sits off to one side, the buffers and coupling should sit on the centre-line, not below centre, and the buffers are far too far apart (they should be about 40.5mm or so...)

 

File the tabs off the chassis and solder on new part...... incidentally, other locos like the Vivian had riveted beams - I've got details somewhere....

 

 IMG_1316_zps71841198.jpg

Edited by Giles
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I've built 2 of these kits and have another half done. It's an "interesting" kit that was designed a very long time ago and absorbed into the Mercian range and brought back out thanks to a lot of lobbying from me. Well, I really wanted one!

 

Some changes were made in response to my test build and I know there have been new lost wax castings too. It's worth contacting Mercian (Trevor) too as he offers a support service ans will replace bits that get mangled during a build - he's a very reasonable chap.

 

Full details of the 2.5 builds on my blog:

 

http://philsworkbench.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Garratt

 

Hope this helps.

 

3813538665_3e7ee70d09_b.jpg

Edited by Phil Parker
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Brilliant Phil!

I'm off to work, but I'll scour your blog as soon as I've got a minute..... PLEASE feel free to step in and point me in the right direction..!

 

Best,

 

Giles

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I've built 2 of these kits and have another half done. It's an "interesting" kit that was designed a very long time ago and absorbed into the Mercian range and brought back out thanks to a lot of lobbying from me. Well, I really wanted one!

 

Some changes were made in response to my test build and I know there have been new lost wax castings too. It's worth contacting Mercian (Trevor) too as he offers a support service ans will replace bits that get mangled during a build - he's a very reasonable chap.

 

Full details of the 2.5 builds on my blog:

 

http://philsworkbench.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Garratt

 

Hope this helps.

 

3813538665_3e7ee70d09_b.jpg

A thing of beauty that is. I am attempting some lobbying of Mercian for a 4mm version of the Bagnall 0-6-0ST Victor/Vulcan.

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If I remember right, there was also an article on the same kit in one of the Gauge O Guild Gazzettes last year. I think it was a re-publish from the S7 groups newsletter. Don't have a copy to hand but I'm sure someone might.

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Brilliant Phil!

I'm off to work, but I'll scour your blog as soon as I've got a minute..... PLEASE feel free to step in and point me in the right direction..!

 

Best,

 

Giles

 

Happy to help. I have 1.5 kits to finish at some point, something I've been saying for the last couple of years so maybe you'll prompt me to get going.

 

There are a couple of prototype photos in my Flickr set from Garratt 100. I'll see if I can find any more photos sometime as the kit is lacking in a few areas of detail because they couldn't get at the remaining prototype where it was stored very easily. Once out in the open, I crawled over it with a camera.

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157622062451536/

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Finishing off the cylinder cladding, I 'bulked out' the cylinder that was too narrow, by soldering wire on the inside that stuck out a little, following the correct/desired enlarged curve. This gave me something to solder the cladding to, which will only require a little filler when it comes to painting.

 

IMG_1314_zpse0d7feff.jpg

 

Instead of fitting the supplied brass top-hat bearings for the axles, I am fitting ball races. I don't know if they'll be any better - but we'll see.... these are epoxied in, having enlarged the diameter of the holes in the frames with a tapered reamer, and checked the spacing against the coupling rods.

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I've also replaced the supplied 12BA crankpins (Slaters) with 10BA countersunk machine screws, as being closer to scale and stronger. The other advantage, is that by tapping the supplied top-hats 10BA, they act as lock-nuts securing the crank pins into the wheels (I tapped the wheels 10BA whilst I was at it.....)

 

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I used the drill chuck off my Unimat 3 to hold the top hats for tapping.....

 

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todays very boring thing was all the supplied top hat bearings for axles (which I'm not using) motor gearboxes (which I am!) and bogie bearings etc... are the large external diameter - and the etches are for the smaller diameter...... so nothing fits! I'm sure Trevor will supply the correct type - but boring...!

Edited by Giles
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for interest's sake, this was the one I started building 25 years ago, before I got sidetracked doing the etches for a kit that never got done. (And before I found out some more details about them!). I've already robbed the buffer beams off this to put on the Mercian....

 

IMG_1346_zps7a3ef162.jpg

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Phil - those are priceless!

The only time I got to see her was in the confines of Bressingham, which wasn't very good for (old fashioned) photography - so that's a brilliant resource... thank you. I'll have to start scanning my old pics in and fill in any gaps (if any!).

 

Meanwhile..

 

The Bressingham Garratt, 'William Francis' was of course slightly different from her sisters - taking for example the Vivian Garratt....

 

William Francis has....

  • Reduced capacity tank (430 gallons) on rear engine
  • different sand reservoirs
  • different top feed
  • Lubricators are repositioned
  • No vacuum braking
  • flush riveted buffer beams
  • different pattern buffers
  • 3-link couplings (instead of instanter type)
  • no steam sanding
  • longer grab poles
  • different steam brake frames
  • locomotive type bearings to coupling rods

    Deep ash pan

I'm sure there are other differences - but these are the ones I can lay my hands on at the moment.

End elevation of 'Vivian' type

 

 

GarrattDWG1_zpse0444ca7.jpg

 

Details of Buffer beams etc....

 

GarrattDWG2_zps30e3266c.jpg

Edited by Giles
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  • 2 weeks later...

I've been distracted recently by the need to do an article for Narrow gauge and Industrial on the Transfer Crane, which in turn meant making a little board for it to go on etc........ ( see relevant thread) so only today have I picked the Garratt up again.

 

The Coupling rods sweat together well, and make up nicely, and I made up a gearbox with the supplied motor, and the front engine runs nicely enough, but frankly far too fast for me. If all you are going to use it for is running round at speed, it will be fine - but I particularly want very slow, fine control. The supplied motor is a mashima 1620, driving through a 40:1. Looking things up, I think I can squeeze in a Mashima 1824, which is more powerful, and has a running speed of 2/3rds that of the smaller motor. Couple that with a 54:1 gear, and I think it will make a great deal of difference. I have a big heavy white metal loco with an 1824 fitted, and I get very good low speed control with that.

On the whole it's pointless going to a great deal of trouble building a loco, and then not getting the characteristics you want from it.

It will take a little carving internally, but not a lot.

 

Know anyone who wants to buy a couple of 1620's?

Edited by Giles
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Rods, as above....

 

IMG_1440_zps877bf17e.jpg

 

I've ordered replacement motor and gears, so we'll see what that's like when they arrive!

 

Meanwhile, I've been putting the font step and lamp iron on the front engine - an simple job, but one that turned into a fight when the etched tank 'skin' started lifting off the inner frame. eventually, after searching high and low, I found my miniature sash cramps, made by Record. I don't use them often, but when I do, they're invaluable. Anyway, these clamped on, a bit of heat applied, and the etch was soon firmly back in place. If you haven't got any of these things, I can't recommend them enough.

 

Another alteration I'm making is the fall plate, mounted on the front engine, rigidly as part of a folded etch. so far as I can see, it will likely cause problems with coupling the engine to the boiler cradle - or at least make it more difficult - so I've cut it off and made a hinged one instead, which is very easy now, but may be less so later.

 

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the new fall plate with its hinge pins

 

[url=http://s589.photobucket.com/user/giles61/media/0%20Gauge/IMG_1448_zps6fb53207.jpg.html]IMG_1448_zps6fb53207.jpg[/uR

 

 

L]

 

today's toe-curler is that I've started applying the balance weights to the wheels (innocently) using milliput as a backing, to find that four are the correct size (ish) and four are over-size!!!!  I should have learned by now.....

Edited by Giles
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These are the clamps I was talking about - very useful...

 

IMG_1455_zps6208b658.jpg

 

Yesterdays rash statement about four balance weights being correct and four wrong, was premature.....  even the four that I thought were correct are not. See picture below. The balance weights are part of the wheel casting, and not 'bolt on', and should cover/incorporate the spokes completely, not sit inside them. Some of Phils excellent photos show this clearly. In consequence, I'm ditching them, and building them up (in situ) with milliput, which I can file down smooth when it's fully hard, and just drill the three holes in.

 

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Not included in the kit are the lifting eyes which are a bit obvious if missing. They are easily made, however out of 5mm wide etch off-cuts, and this is where they go......

 

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I find a torch very useful for adding this kind of detail, just to get the heat in - but again I use the clamps to make sure things stay in place....

 

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IMG_1461_zps8a37130d.jpg

Edited by Giles
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The milliput on the wheels has dried, and 5 minutes fettling with a file, and then drilling three holes using a pin vice produced this...... I suppose the entire operation on all eight wheels  takes about two hours - not including drying time. For me, I think it is well worth it compared to having to live with inaccurate and inconsistent etches, that would have still taken about an hour to fit......

 

IMG_1468_zps5ff6e62b.jpg

 

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The other bit of good news is that the Mashima 1824s arrived today, (obtainable from a variety of sources) and the 54:1 gearboxes (from Roxey Mouldings).

They went together very well, meshing perfectly, and once assembled - ran as slowly as I hoped for! What is even better, once I chopped the shaft off the back end, it fits in the front engine, without any modification at all!!!!!

This means that the rear engine will have to run with a full bunker of coal - but that's fine with me. In my opinion, If anyone is planning on building one of these, I really suggest that you don't bother with the smaller motor, and upgrade to the 1824/ 54:1 combination - you won't regret it, I promise.

IMG_1473_zpsbf4d4ab9.jpg[/url]

 

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Edited by Giles
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Hi Giles,

Just found this thread, after you mentioned it on NGRM.  Haven't had time to read through it yet, but looks a great build.

All the best,

Dave.

Me too.

Bit OTT for EOTL though Giles?

 

Martin

(Who also has a Mercian kit (narrow gauge) that is proving problematic and gone back in the cupboard.)

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