Network Rail orders Robel maintenance vehicles

[Andy Y]

But then we all know that maintenance crews in those areas are made of stronger stuff and can endure the more challenging conditions.

 

Maybe they're looking where rail users complain more?

[70b]

>>The MMTs have been manufactured by renowned railway construction and engineering experts Robel, in Freilassing, Germany and will be delivered to Network Rail over the next 12 months. The first one to arrive will be based in Darlington, with the second (based at Paddock Wood in Kent) arriving in October and the third (based at Derby) in December. The remaining five will be stationed at Woking, Retford, Romford, Peterborough and Horsham.

 

saw the Darlington one yesterday, south yard, sorry I was on a moving train so got no photo

[Richard E]

Just to update this the unit based at Retford has been there for a couple of weeks now.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Richard E

[phil-b259]

What nobody behind this initiative in NR has adequately explained to me is how this 'take a possession round the train business' will work with conductor rails. In 99% of cases these have to be isolated for any track based activity to be carried out and unlike OHLE isolating conrail is a time consuming and very manual process with hook switches and suchlike needing to be manually operated on site. It also ignores that if the p-way renew a length of rail say, the track cannot be returned to service until the S&T have tested the track circuit - which cannot happen if the maintenance train is sat on it!

 

I fear that once again its a case of NR forgetting it does have other disciplines than P-Way in its empire to consider....

[96701]

What nobody behind this initiative in NR has adequately explained to me is how this 'take a possession round the train business' will work with conductor rails. In 99% of cases these have to be isolated for any track based activity to be carried out and unlike OHLE isolating conrail is a time consuming and very manual process with hook switches and suchlike needing to be manually operated on site. It also ignores that if the p-way renew a length of rail say, the track cannot be returned to service until the S&T have tested the track circuit - which cannot happen if the maintenance train is sat on it!

 

I fear that once again its a case of NR forgetting it does have other disciplines than P-Way in its empire to consider....

If what you say about conductor rail is true, then why are Paddock Wood having one? I can't agree that NR would forget maintenance requirements, many jobs are done that doesn't require track circuit testing, particularly if axle counters are used for train detection.

[Zomboid]

Maybe its not suitable for 3rd rail areas, but most of the network is either non electrified or 25kV. The fact that you need another solution for those lines doesn't make it a bad idea overall

[HillsideDepot]

There was one parked in a siding at Basingstoke North Yard on Monday, and from the works going on at the end of the car park it looked like they are establishing a base there rather than it was just lying over between test runs/crew training etc.

 

Another two were visible at the Plasser Works at West Ealing, presumably having pre-delivery inspections.

[phil-b259]

If what you say about conductor rail is true, then why are Paddock Wood having one? I can't agree that NR would forget maintenance requirements, many jobs are done that doesn't require track circuit testing, particularly if axle counters are used for train detection.

Axle counters are a relatively new phenomenon when it comes to their squadron use - as such only lines that have been resignaled since 2000 use them in large numbers - everywhere else conventional track circuits are the order of the day, which technically require wheels free testing every time their integrity has been compromised by a bit of rail being renewed.

 

While it would be nice to think that NR had taken into account all departments in their planning, unfortunately that is not what I see on the ground, where far to many permenant way jobs overlook the need for S&T or ETE cover until the very last minute.

 

As for 3rd rail issues - you would like to think that had been accounted for when the South East route went and bought a couple (Horsham and Paddock Wood are mentioned as getting them). My observation is that there has been plenty of talk about how wonderful these machines are, but precious little information on how they will deployed in 3rd rail areas, which is hardly insignificant in terms of route mileage.

 

Don't get me wrong I am all for improving safety, but if working on the railway has taught me anything it's that the upper management is dominated by p-way types who are prone to overlook things in their enthusiasm for shiny new toys.

 

Hopefully all will come clear in due course but with the machines not that far off arriving it would be nice to have the confidence that the practicalities of how they will be used have been properly thought through.

Edited May 28, 2016 by phil-b259

[PaulRhB]

The best potential of these is getting men and materials to site fast and away again to give more time to actually work much like the MPV conversion ideas on Wessex. Currently we rely on lots of vans and then trollies pushed to site. It does need a few rule changes to be truly flexible but the tamping on an open line trials we did prove it can work well and safely, (although there were issues elsewhere but we know what went awry there).

Basing them at depots like Eastleigh, Basingstoke , Woking or Salisbury mean they can load up then pick up the work crew at a convenient station near that crews depot which could be miles away.

If it picks up the S&T at the nearest access gate then they can jump in as soon as it clears the section and test and then only they need to walk back to the nearest gate with no heavy gear. The COSS can get a block to give them a safe egress and on the bright side it would only be half the normal walk. If they extend the concept tried with the tamping on an open line then the train could move out clear of the section being tested but still within the work area. Nothing new in there and it just relies on clear briefing in what's blocked and movement speed within the block like a T3 block.

Edited May 28, 2016 by PaulRhB

[Ron Ron Ron]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I stumbled on this video today.....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QACP_Q2CKMQ#t=239.140181096

[Grizz]

This was a STP move. I was the conductor for the moves back in July / August. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Grizz]

A few more detail photos….

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[njee20]

Started the CAD for one of these a while back. Seen the Horsham-based one a few times, certainly pretty noisy! I read somewhere this week that they’re a bit of a white elephant, and don’t get used much. 

[Grizz]

3 hours ago, njee20 said:

Started the CAD for one of these a while back. Seen the Horsham-based one a few times, certainly pretty noisy! I read somewhere this week that they’re a bit of a white elephant, and don’t get used much. 

They now have two on the Central Division. 

 

I’ve Conducted these Horsham based MMTs several times. They are a superb piece of kit from a safety point of view when doing track maintenance, and talking to the regular crews they get used frequently on the Central Division, can’t speak for other areas as I haven’t dealt with those. 
 

As a front line Pway Ops manager over the past 25 years I’d have given shed loads to have had one of these. For example if you have a rail head defect that has been identified and the mitigation is a speed restriction. Obviously, depending on the category of defect,  ideally you need to get that defect out of the track as safely and a quickly as possible. However this will obviously involve taking possession of the line. Not an easy thing to achieve at short notice and it requires planning and resources but with this unit you have another weapon in your arsenal. The unit becomes the possession. You still have the juice to deal with but the train acts a level of protection. 
 

This unit can carry spare rails, stressing gear, welding equipment etc so if you needed cut in a new rail you have your kit and crews in one place. The train itself becomes the block and you can work inside an area that has an extractor, is in the dry which is a massive boost if you are a thermit welding team. Potentially and depending on the type of issue this piece of kit can tool up and crew up for most small maintenance jobs. I was told it can carry a half set (stock and switch). 
 

Traditionally, certainly since privatisation, everyone made their own way to site. This unit picks up and drops of staff where they are needed. 
 

Sure it is not the answer to everything but then what is. And it is very noisy in the ‘worksite’ vehicle when it is travelling at maximum speed because it is hollow. 
 

I’d love a model of this. It is small enough to fit on most layouts. It can be used country wide. Probably similar to the RHTT MPVs they can run in between trains so having an excuse to run them is easy. 
 

Does anyone have a technical drawing of one of these? 
 

 

[Ncarter2]

4 hours ago, njee20 said:

Started the CAD for one of these a while back. Seen the Horsham-based one a few times, certainly pretty noisy! I read somewhere this week that they’re a bit of a white elephant, and don’t get used much. 

White elephant indeed. As I have said before, the concept is great, sadly it has fallen short of what it was sold as. Wessex got rid following realisation it was not as great as everyone thought. It says something when the crew couldn’t wait to get back into traditional P-Way sections. It’s bread and butter was meant to be rail defects, it struggles to fit 40ft rails in, ideally you want to use 60ft’s. If it could carry a half set, it wouldn’t be a big one and towards the heel you would be close to the walls when working. Yes it provides a dry environment, and you can conduct things like re-padding, or seasonal preparations, it hasn’t proven cost too effective. 
Some will like it, others will hate it. Having first had experience of it, I know where I sit. 

[njee20]

45 minutes ago, Grizz said:

They now have two on the Central Division. 

 

I’ve Conducted these Horsham based MMTs several times. They are a superb piece of kit from a safety point of view when doing track maintenance, and talking to the regular crews they get used frequently on the Central Division, can’t speak for other areas as I haven’t dealt with those. 
 

As a front line Pway Ops manager over the past 25 years I’d have given shed loads to have had one of these. For example if you have a rail head defect that has been identified and the mitigation is a speed restriction. Obviously, depending on the category of defect,  ideally you need to get that defect out of the track as safely and a quickly as possible. However this will obviously involve taking possession of the line. Not an easy thing to achieve at short notice and it requires planning and resources but with this unit you have another weapon in your arsenal. The unit becomes the possession. You still have the juice to deal with but the train acts a level of protection. 
 

This unit can carry spare rails, stressing gear, welding equipment etc so if you needed cut in a new rail you have your kit and crews in one place. The train itself becomes the block and you can work inside an area that has an extractor, is in the dry which is a massive boost if you are a thermit welding team. Potentially and depending on the type of issue this piece of kit can tool up and crew up for most small maintenance jobs. I was told it can carry a half set (stock and switch). 
 

Traditionally, certainly since privatisation, everyone made their own way to site. This unit picks up and drops of staff where they are needed. 
 

Sure it is not the answer to everything but then what is. And it is very noisy in the ‘worksite’ vehicle when it is travelling at maximum speed because it is hollow. 
 

I’d love a model of this. It is small enough to fit on most layouts. It can be used country wide. Probably similar to the RHTT MPVs they can run in between trains so having an excuse to run them is easy. 
 

Does anyone have a technical drawing of one of these? 
 

 

I asked Robel, but they didn’t oblige! There are some reasonable ’graphic’ drawings, but would welcome any proper drawings. Mine was going to be N (I assume you’d want OO?), but I’d consider upsizing it!

[phil-b259]

4 hours ago, njee20 said:

Started the CAD for one of these a while back. Seen the Horsham-based one a few times, certainly pretty noisy! I read somewhere this week that they’re a bit of a white elephant, and don’t get used much. 

 

For some tasks like cutting out a small length of rail due to a defect and welding in a new one these MMTs are indeed useful. Problem is the number of tasks they can perform is small - a traditional setup with RRVs can do the same and and a lot more!

 

As I said around 4 years ago there is a tendency for the P-way dominated heads of maintenance to be seduced by large yellow toys without really thinking through the practicalities of there use.

[Ncarter2]

5 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

For some tasks like cutting out a small length of rail due to a defect and welding in a new one these MMTs are indeed useful. Problem is the number of tasks they can perform is small - a traditional setup with RRVs can do the same and and a lot more!

 

As I said around 4 years ago there is a tendency for the P-way dominated heads of maintenance to be seduced by large yellow toys without really thinking through the practicalities of there use.

The problem with putting small rails in, is you end up with a patch work of welds all over the shop, which in turn will affect geometry and TQ. It was a missive oversight that no one questioned its ability to use a standard length, when the question was asked while the party was over in the factory being shown the units in manufacture, everyone scratched their heads and swiftly changed the subject. It will be potentially useful for HRW repairs, but changing lengths of rail is better left to the local sections with the RRV’s and TRAMM. 
100% agree with you, big and yellow and they will sign up to anything. One day, someone from TA or what every they become under GBR, will take the time to engage those in the coal face. 

[Michael Hodgson]

I see from the photos that it's branded "Not to be loose or hump shunted". 

Do we still have yards where that could happen?