3D printing class 25 parts .... Also class 20,37, 2mm and 7mm wagons and 1/32 bogies

[simon br blue]

I've had a go at painting some of the parts. Firstly with primer and then a couple of the smaller parts by hand with some acrylic paint.

 

The J70 looks ok but is still a bit rough (I didn't bother to sand any of these parts) The colours are probably not correct either - they are just what I could lay my hands on tonight. I drew a couple of lines on with a black pen and used a pencil to draw the cowcatcher bars on.

 

 

All I did with the class 04 tram was to paint the bufferbeam red. The white specks on the body are/is dust. It must be a nightmare trying to keep a t gauge layout clean.

 

 

The last pic for tonight is a pair of T gauge class 25 bodies. Only a quick paint and not a great finish when viewed close up. 2 things apparent after painting is that the roof in particular on the back model (printed in WSF) is rough/fuzzy but this could easily be sorted with a sand and repaint. The other thing to show up is the layered finish to the windows on the front model (printed in white detail). Overall I think they look better than before painting as you can see some of the detail, the lights were put on with a pencil and the domino lights were done with a cocktail stick dipped in paint.

 

[Rhys]

I've been following this thread for a while now.

 

The one question I really have is "is there anyone offering a better service?"

 

You have spent quite a bit of time refining the CAD files for the models, and its doing them a huge disservice IMHO to print them out at a poor resolution.

 

I ask simpy as out here in the colonies we have acess to much better resolution RP printing with very fine resolutions.

surely there are similar setups in the UK?

[m davies]

I've been following this thread for a while now.

 

The one question I really have is "is there anyone offering a better service?"

 

You have spent quite a bit of time refining the CAD files for the models, and its doing them a huge disservice IMHO to print them out at a poor resolution.

 

I ask simpy as out here in the colonies we have acess to much better resolution RP printing with very fine resolutions.

surely there are similar setups in the UK?

 

You and me both, I'm itching for better resolutions to be offered and I dont mind paying a little extra either, I just cannot find anyone in Europe who offers a better resolution, although my parts will be drasitcally bigger (7mm and some 10mm) I still think they will need too much cleaning up to cast from.

 

Best

 

Michael

[craigwelsh]

I've been following this thread for a while now.

 

The one question I really have is "is there anyone offering a better service?"

 

You have spent quite a bit of time refining the CAD files for the models, and its doing them a huge disservice IMHO to print them out at a poor resolution.

 

I ask simpy as out here in the colonies we have acess to much better resolution RP printing with very fine resolutions.

surely there are similar setups in the UK?

Could you quote some companies and show examples we can see? There were better resolutions shown earlier in the thread but at a much higher cost too.

 

We can always get the results shipped to the UK if someone elsewhere has something much better at a reasonable cost.

[John M]

Could you quote some companies and show examples we can see? There were better resolutions shown earlier in the thread but at a much higher cost too.

 

We can always get the results shipped to the UK if someone elsewhere has something much better at a reasonable cost.

 

There are a couple of firms who do 3D printing for railway modellers in New Zealand. It might be worth considering Mark Gasson Mark 4 Design ttp://www.mark4design.com/html/n_gp_hoods.html Plastic Design Technology http://www.pdt.co.nz/contact.htm .

For many items rapid prototyping is more of an intermediate stage either in preparing wax models for lost wax brass castings or toolings for resin castings. http://www.vccmodels.co.nz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=2

 

John

[Will J]

I've had a go at painting some of the parts.

 

 

Fantastic Simon, thanks for keeping us informed with the smaller sideline projects (dont let it distract you too much from the big ones! )

 

One thought that occured to me with the little 25 (the one printed in white detail) was that you could carefully sand the front of the cab to get the finish you want, but of course you cannot sand the insides of the recessed windows. Maybe the answer would be to sand the front of the cab, paint it all nice and yellow, then paint the insides of the windows a flat grey, and finally put a tiny blob of clear varnish into the window 'hole'. This would give the window a nicely 'windowish'appearance (pardon the technical jargon!) and also conceal the stepped appearance.

 

I'm on the verge of ordering up some T gauge models from Shapeways, I think I have sussed out getting the rather basic Google Sketchup to output .stl files.

[Petri Sallinen]

Hi all,

 

You have very interesting discussion. We have also used 3D-printing for different kinds of projects here in Finland. My sample is the Finnish style motorwagon body from 1950´s in H0 scale. Normally we do not use printings for making individual models — the main purpose of use is origin for making silicon rubber molds. We have also found that it is very difficult to find printing service with very fine quality. In pictures I enclose here you will find one possible way to make origin or maybe the individual model from quite rough printing. The sanding and detailing of this project took about 35 hours.

 

Because the printing is quite a rough we did not make any small details in our drawing.

 

We filled the rough surface with filling primer (=spray can for car restoration). After every layer we had to sand the surface with a fine water sanding paper (also with water). In picture we have made five layers and five sandings: three first layers with car filling primer and two last layers with Mr. Surfacer 500 made by Japanese Gunze. We have found that suitable water sanding paper is number 1500-2000 or finer one.

 

After that we glued details made by brass and polystyrene. Details were glued by Loctite

 

After adding details we painted three layers Surfacer 1200 made by Gunze making water sanding after every layer. In the picture you will find the ready-made origin, that we will use for making resin castings.

 

Petri Sallinen

Helsinki, Finland

[BobD]

Very good explanation. Thanks for sharing your technique.

[m davies]

Petri, very nice modeling!, I think sanding works very well with your prototype as it is naturally a smooth curved shape, for square or hard edge shapes then sanding may loose some of the original shape with rounded edges etc, one of my projects is a DB E10/E50-51, which also has a smooth curved cab so your process will work very well. I am also impressed with your multi media approach.

 

Best

 

Michael

[Petri Sallinen]

Petri, very nice modeling!, I think sanding works very well with your prototype as it is naturally a smooth curved shape, for square or hard edge shapes then sanding may loose some of the original shape with rounded edges etc, one of my projects is a DB E10/E50-51, which also has a smooth curved cab so your process will work very well. I am also impressed with your multi media approach.

 

Best

 

Michael

 

Michael, you are right. Squares and hard edges are difficult to keep sharp when sanding and filling, but not impossible. In our model sides of window openings were difficult, because corners have to be sharp. I also found the terrible surprise: window openings are not exactly in same size, although they might be. We made one origin and one mold for making main windows by casting them in transparent resin, but making windows this way caused that some on them were too big and some of them were be too small in openings. When using rough 3D-printer, filling and sanding there are risk that you fill openings smaller or sand them bigger and sometimes 3D-prints are not accurate enough for this kind of production planning. In our case differences between same size openings varies 0,1 mm or 0,2 mm. We made corrections in the first resin part and we also had to make new mold, but next time we will know that.

 

Petri

[Red Devil]

Simon kindly offered me some advice re shapeways stuff, so I hope he won't mind me posting a picture of my Middleton Bogie tram printed by Shapeways in the white detail medium, I'm pretty happy with it to be honest, only arrived today so this is completely 'raw'.

 

[Tricky-CRS]

Hi all

This thread is looking good. The T Gauge stuff is very interesting, what wall thickness are you using?

[John M]

I have adapted similar principals to Petri to achieve a reasonably acceptable finish on the Valve Design CIE E Class shunting locomotive produced by Shapeways.

 

I used a combination of sanding in conjunction with a Holts primer to smooth the body, and produced a set of detail overlays to complete.

 

 

 

I am considering using a multi media approach combing etch brass and 3D printed components for other models. For me one of the major issue is getting to grips with 3D modelling software having taken 10 years to develop enough confidence to produce 2D artwork using CAD. I have managed to produce 3D models using CAD but the resulting models were shot full of holes.

 

Another issue is that combining the cost of the Shapeway Model, adding detail overlays and other accessories, it probably would have been quicker and cheaper to have produced the loco as a set of etched brass parts with whitemetal and brass detail castings and buffers.

 

John

[simon br blue]

Simon kindly offered me some advice re shapeways stuff, so I hope he won't mind me posting a picture of my Middleton Bogie tram printed by Shapeways in the white detail medium, I'm pretty happy with it to be honest, only arrived today so this is completely 'raw'.

 

 

Hi Mark,that looks good. How fine are the window supports? Hope you post a pic whe it's got some paint on it.

 

Tricky-CRS the walls on the t gauge 25 were 2mm as it was only a test and wouldn't ever have anything inside it. You could probably go down to about 1mm but then you run the risk of it not printing correctly. I think you would struggle to get a motor mechinism inside but you could always run it as a dummy and have a powered mk1 or mk2 coach pushing it along. The other option would be to print a model with cabs joined by the roof without any bodyside and add these later using thin plasticard as the sides don't have much detail on them anyway.

 

 

John, the shunter looks good. I have seen the Irish stuff on shapeways but never seen a printed model. I think the way forward using shapeways would be to sand and finish the basic model then add etched parts. Or if making more than a couple cast some in resin and then add the etched parts as John and Perti have done.

 

I've added a couple of coats of primer to the O gauge 25 cab and will try to take a pic over the weekend.

[Red Devil]

Hi Mark,that looks good. How fine are the window supports? Hope you post a pic whe it's got some paint on it.

 

Hi Simon, as requested a very quick pic taken this morning (hence it's composition!)

 

 

All it has had is a very light rubbing down with 800 and 1200 wet and dry and a coat or two of normal Halfords primer, it's coming up very well with hardly any work needed, the 'problem' areas being the roof and ends, roof is now perfect ends require a little more work, loss of (minimal) detail, so far none, this is far finer than I expected it to be.

 

Window pillars are about 1mm thick, prfectly strong enough and way thinner than a cast white metal tram, they're nearly at the etched kit thickness.

 

Hopefully there'll be a bit more in my blog later this weekend, then again if United get beaten by Arsenal tonight there may not!

[simon br blue]

The finish on the tram body looks good and also good to see that the bodyside bands are still clear after the painting.

 

I've given the class 20 bogie a coat of black primer to see what the finish looks like. I've also taken a pic of the back of the bogie to show the hollow frames that help to heep the price down.

 

 

 

The class 25/3 7mm cab has also had a couple of coats of primer (with sanding in between coats) to smooth the surface. The pics below hopefully show how it has got smoother - If I make a resin casting and then prime and paint it when attached to the body I think it will be plenty smooth enough.

 

 

 

 

I have also been playing with the Z gauge Wisbech and Upwell stock I had printed. The 04 had a coat of grey primer then matt black paint(which hasn't turned out matt). I painted the windows dark grey and drew the bonnet doors, vents and cowcatchers on in pencil. I also had a go at painting on the number and lion and wheel emblem - harder than it looks in Z gauge. I also added a vaccum hose made from an old bit of wire.

 

 

I have painted the wagons that I had printed last time. Again they were primed and then hand painted. The 3 vans were all painted differnetly to try and look like a cross section of hte vans used on the line, The 1st 16t mineral was painted to be a good condition wagon but on the second I tried to make it look rusty and heavily weathered. The guards van was simply painted grey and some lines drawn on to represent the doors and handrails.

 

 

The final pic show several items placed next to each other. I was surprised by how big the 04 looks in the pic when next to the T gauge 25 (the 04 is only 30mm long).

 

[Tricky-CRS]

Hi Simon looking good. Is the team STD or Narrow gauge?

[stadman]

Just watched this on you tube

Link courtesy DIY 3d printing group on yahoo

[Pugsley]

Now that is awesome! B) B) B)

 

Edit - Actually, reading the blog, it's more than that. It's a very exciting development with real potential to open up a whole new world, assuming the costs of both the equipment and materials are reasonably affordable.

 

Just imagine the possibilities if a machine that can print at 50 microns resolution can be produced and sold for the same kind of cost as the thing-o-matic and reprap.

[S.A.C Martin]

Just imagine the possibilities if a machine that can print at 50 microns resolution can be produced and sold for the same kind of cost as the thing-o-matic and reprap.

 

I wonder if this will become comparable to the printer/photocopier development of the last twenty years. I remember my dad's original HP laser printer was a staggering amount of money. You can now get a reasonable one for well under 100 pounds.

 

If in time, as the technology develops, people are able to buy their own 3D printers for home use, perhaps the kit manufacturers of today will change tack, and perhaps develop 3D Cadwork to buy online, and print at home.

 

You never know...!

[Pugsley]

Quite possibly. Over time, perhaps we will see 3D CAD files to purchase and print at home, but that's a long way off yet.

[simon br blue]

If developements continue at the current rate it won't be long before you can print things at home (even if the printers cost a lot of money). The biggest thing that I would look for in a 3D printer at home would be the quality and detail of the finished print.

 

Anyway another update on the class 25 cabs. I've partly redrawn the 25.1 cab but not printed it yet.

 

I have also made a casting of the 0 gauge cab. Below is a pic of a couple of 4mm and 7mm castings next to each other. The only thing with the 7mm cab is that one will need modifying as aech end of the Steve Beattie body is a different width.

 

[Red Devil]

Looks like a couple of new smoother finish print materials are now being trialed (or have been, and made available) Frosted detail and Frosted Ultra detail, if they're as good as they are supposed to be it could be a bit of an advance in surface texture

 

http://www.shapeways.com/materials/frosted_detail

 

I've got something ordered in Ultra detail, will see how it turns out.......

[Neil]

The ultra detail looks very promising; I'd be very interested to see how your sample turns out RD.

[Atso]

Wow, Ultra detail! Could this be what we've all been waiting for from Shapeways!? I've just had some 'cheap' SLA's made up of which the quality reflects the price I paid (but better than SWF and detail materials!). Looking at Shapeways new material it looks like I could have got 6 models for the price I paid for three... and Shapeways's quality looks better!