PLD Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I was interested to learn that the Atlas Feltham is die-cast because I have their Bruxelles/Brussel 5001 in HO (released December 2013) and that is moulded plastic. As the Atlas collection consists of a mix of reruns of old models from various origins with a few new additions, a mix of materials is not suprising... The pre existing models by necessity are produced in the material of the original, the Feltham being the Corgi diecast tooling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan J Kirkman Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I recently had an Atlas Feltham on my workbench to motorise for a customer and was surprised to note some change of materials in the plastic parts etc. from the Corgi production. Different feeling plastics, the windows glued in place not clipped and the wheels plastic and fixed on the axles . As to the "Current" pantograph on the Brussels 5000 that's probably because that's what they saw and scanned when they visited the Museum. We have had several reports from German etc colleagues of Atlas cooperating with various Museums and in some cases allowing the Museum to sell the model for a period before being issued in the collection. I am told there was such a deal with Brussels but their museum could only deal with sales on site not by any form of mail order!!!! Now wouldn't it be nice it Atlas were to scan something at Crich or Beamish or Heaton Park but there has been no reported contact perhaps they feel the old Corgi castings will do for British demand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
met331 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Personally if a manufacturer were to dip their toe as such then as previously stated a Preston 3 windowed accurate scale model in OO would sell. Especially a motorised one. With the various liveries and slight modifications coupled to a price tag of say £80 i feel they would have a winner. Layout builders love adding extras and an easy solution would be a RTR tram. It would i fear have to be Dapol or Bachmann but as we have seen in the railway sector surprises happen.After allwho wouldve predicted the Blue Pullman. I do agree that a Pilcher would be a close runner up then maybe a Liverpool Goddess or an E1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 SNIP the very heart of nostalgia. My, as yet unfulfilled, layout aspirations would result in a Minories-style Lambeth/Southwark terminus where emus and suburban steam would run on elevated yellow ochre brick arches above streets of tramways (and London Underground below). And each new announcement from Bachmann and Hornby brings such an event slightly closer. I have my 2-Bils; a 2-Hal and even a 2-Nol could follow. I have my South-Western M7s; within a year or so they could be joined by Brighton and Chatham cousins. One of the missing vital ingredients would be the E1 (or similar?) style of tram. And then there are buses.................. I thought the Tower Trams plastic E1's were acquired and being re-run occasionally when in sufficient demand? This nostalgia kick must be catching. I have similar feelings, just more towards the East London area.and with much blacker brickwork on the arches. I have my Liverpool St Quint Arts and their transition 306's, in the traditional "kits in waiting" frozen time warp. I do have my E1's already though. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan J Kirkman Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 The Tower E1 SHMD and Feltham etc.Kits were taken over by BEC-KITS and are still available from Brian Robinson at BEC. I wouldn't be sure if the investment in any further plastic moulding has been required yet, stocks of the parts still exist but new boxes have happened. Brian is able to print decals as required. See www.bec-kits.co.uk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirty2a Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I think it would be nice to see some modern trams in plastic kit form so that we can get some cheap(ish) models that can be motorised or not depending on taste and requirement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLD Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I think it would be nice to see some modern trams in plastic kit form so that we can get some cheap(ish) models that can be motorised or not depending on taste and requirement. There are plenty of things we'd all like to see but there is a long was from 'nice to see' to financially viable! The Manchester M5000, Croydon C4000, and Blackpool Flexity from Halling are available motorised or static, and there is a 3D printed Sheffield Supertram in development. None of those are what you would call cheap, but are realistically priced given the very limited size of the market to recoup the development costs... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirty2a Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 thanks PLD I have seen the Halling stuff and it's certanly not cheap, i do wonder how expensive it would be. I'm no expert but picked up die cast articulated 'toy' tram in 1:87 scale at Alexandra Palace on Saturday for £10.99 and a Bachmann Trolley for £29.99 to motorise it (hopefully anyway) now I guess the Bachy been around a while but with modern 3d printing a cheap range of trams must be viable and I would say wanted judging by the amount of tramway sections appearing on layouts now, just my thoughts and I admit I am bias. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 thanks PLD I have seen the Halling stuff and it's certanly not cheap, i do wonder how expensive it would be. I'm no expert but picked up die cast articulated 'toy' tram in 1:87 scale at Alexandra Palace on Saturday for £10.99 and a Bachmann Trolley for £29.99 to motorise it (hopefully anyway) now I guess the Bachy been around a while but with modern 3d printing a cheap range of trams must be viable and I would say wanted judging by the amount of tramway sections appearing on layouts now, just my thoughts and I admit I am bias. If you don't call Halling cheap, then a range of 3d printed trams most certainly will not be cheap...... I do a number of 3d trams should you choose to go that way, for example this is my latest nearly finished Leeds Pivotal car, the body is a one piece print (circa £55 in FUD), the trucksides are 3d prints (4 of at approx £4,50), so thats £73 in prints exculding the upperdeck and platforms which are scratchbuilt in plastic, plus the assorted castings and wire/etched bits for the lifeguards/bow etc, a Halling motorising unit will weigh in at another £35+ quid, so safely in the region of £120 for bits before you build it, a Halling r-t-r will be considerably cheaper, especially when you get into the realms of modern articulated stuff. No one is going to invest in a range of injection moulded kits as the outlay is just too great for such a marginal prototype (I'd be very happy to be proved wrong though....) So it's Halling or the other odd r-t-r item from Roco/Ex Lima/variouus Japanese manufacturers or go a traditional kit building/scrarchbuilding way..... The costs of producing a 3d printed vehicle can soon add up a Halling r-t-r suddenly becomes reasonable for a small niche market european produced ready to run model...... Perhaps a bit of perspective is required here, compare Hallings prices to other European manufacturers rather than UK stuff? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirty2a Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 thanks for info Red Devil, I had not realised 3D was so expensive. With the likes of Hornby talking of modern procceses keeping cost down I for one have been thinking things could be done at cheaper cost (relativly speaking). I dont mind spending money but when a Loco with sound ect cost little more than basic tram it does seem a pricey niche! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 thanks for info Red Devil, I had not realised 3D was so expensive. With the likes of Hornby talking of modern procceses keeping cost down I for one have been thinking things could be done at cheaper cost (relativly speaking). I dont mind spending money but when a Loco with sound ect cost little more than basic tram it does seem a pricey niche! I'd look at it from a different point of view........ If you want a (for example) LNER Beyer Garrett in 4mm you're probably going to buy the DJH kit and build that....I'd wager that it'd be considerably dearer than the new Hattons Heljan LMS Garrett, if the DJH kit didn't exist and you had to do your own then again costs will rise. So to a degree it's like comparing apples to oranges, anything kit produced is likely to be dearer than rtr and anything in a small market niche is going to be more expensive, 3d printing isn't the answer to this question. To be honest I'd rather actually build something than open a blue or red box, nothing wrong with that but not how I want to model, so perhaps that's why I do something relatively unorthadox. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirty2a Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I like to build stuff or bash it at least,I was looking at the Kato N gauge bits but for the price and the amount of OO/HO tram bits I already have I decided not to jump ship. Like I said I have picked up cheap toy and have started to chop it up !! I think the Bachy mechs must be under more different trams than the originals around the world! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glennofootscray Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I like to build stuff or bash it at least,I was looking at the Kato N gauge bits but for the price and the amount of OO/HO tram bits I already have I decided not to jump ship. Like I said I have picked up cheap toy and have started to chop it up !! I think the Bachy mechs must be under more different trams than the originals around the world! You are correct about the Bachmann mechanisms, most of my fleet run on them. http://www.flickr.com/photos/glennofootscray/10334354776/ regards Glenn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I've just motorised a Corgi Feltham using the BEC MEFEL kit, it was surprisingly easy once I got the headlight moulding out, (big thank you to David Voice who explained how to take apart a Corgi OOC Feltham in one of his books), and it runs very nicely. I have a second one still to do. The problem as I see it is that the classic trams such as the E1s, E3s, Felthams, and Dick, Kerr ones disappeared so long ago that interest in them is declining as the number of people who saw them running in their lifetime decreases, and it simply doesn't make commercial sense for the manufacturers to tool up for them when they can get a better return on their investment with other models. I am building a Tower Trams E1, but it is not going together as well as i expected, and will have to do quite a bit of work to get it up to a comparable standard to a diecast model. For that reason alone I'd welcome more static diecast models that we could motorise. But in their absence I'm grateful for the remaining "cottage industry" suppliers for still supplying kits at all. That's why I have just ordered some more E1s from BEC, support them or lose them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dullsteamer Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I think it would be nice to see some modern trams in plastic kit form so that we can get some cheap(ish) models that can be motorised or not depending on taste and requirement. Apart from the Halling models there are these: Cheers, Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenbat Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 However... The cost of 3D printing has fallen in the past few years, as the technology develops and becomes more popular. So maybe in 5-10 years, you'll be able to fire up your own printer and knock out a full colour model... Being more serious, you have to remember that designing these things is an utter ballache. Whilst there is a perception that computer controlled anything = easy (Try explaining the skill in CNC machining to an 80 year old ex Capstan operator!), 3D design is a huge skill, and time consuming to do properly. I know, I've tried. Besides that, the software itself is stupidly expensive, for a 1 year Solidworks licence its a couple of grand. The other end of the scale is free programs that lack the functionality you need to produce a intricate model. So even when you do get your shiny home 3d colour printer, some poor sod still has to tell it what to print, so you'd either still be paying £80 for a file, or relying on people such as Mark who design for their personal enjoyment. You have to remember we've been utterly spoilt in the RTR railway scene. 20 years ago the Corgi Feltham would have been perfectly acceptable next to even Bachmanns then offerings, never mind Hornbys plastic boxes in wheels. Look at it now and it is distinctly toy like, though maybe you notice it more when you see the real 331 every weekend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirty2a Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Thanks guy's very interesting and illuminating. I personally have two Corgi Felthams and love them and have motorised one of them. My brother does have a 3D printer I may ask him how hes getting on with it ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Two factors that I feel make a huge difference are: Lack of a moderately priced RTR tram track system, that is in widespread consumer use. Hartel was close, but has long gone. Lack of a short wheelbase tram mechanism that is economic for both manufacturers and kit builders, due to a high volume production of the key parts. The comparitive proliferation of new model railway locos is due to the their having the railway equivalent of both. Any new model typically only needs a new body shell, and the rest of the parts are already mass production. And the huge "ready to impulse buy" customer base can just add it to their existing layouts. Cosmetic or working overhead is, I think less important to consumers, as 2 rail operation doesn't actually need it, and it complicates the train set mode, of setting up on the carpet, then putting it away at bedtime. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirty2a Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I certanly agree about the track issue as i'm planning a new layout and still undecided which way to go on that one!! I think overhead on a layout is covered by variety of sources. There is a way to go but part of the fun of trams, for me anyway is tinkering with what is available just wish was a bit more. I know just greedy and jealous of railway stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan J Kirkman Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 You may be interested to know that the Japanese OO (1/80th) Potram from Hobbysearch is in fact made by Halling in Austria! Rolf Hafke had a sample clear body with him at last years Festival of Model Tramways., Further ones may be available in the summer and this batch may not all go out to Japan in one lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirty2a Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I didnt know they did OO version ! I will look into that.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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