Webb Lane

[Saddletank]

Stuck indoors standby with the duty mobile on a wet miserable Friday night, and a slow burning idea has been forming. I'm a bit lax with actually getting layouts, even micros, started and have never completed one, but this seems realistically sized enough that I might actually make some progress (not for a while though, I'm due out of country next week for a couple of months). Still, no reason not to try it.

 

This is based around one of Ian Futers micro designs where he advocated the use of 3 points max in a space around 4'6" x 1' in OO. I'm using N gauge and have gone for a slightly more restrictive 2'x4" (60x10cm) with integral fiddle yard and 4 points (although 2 of which are one 3 way point), representing a 2 road motive power shed squeezed into a patch of urban land below street level, and accessed where a single line breaks cover between two tunnels. The left tunnel portal will be an old original structure, but the covering on the right will be a modern extension structure built over the track, I'm thinking supermarket / warehouse loading bay. Paper templates show rough positions of major structures but these will need to be refined considerably yet.

 

The pictures show modern locos but the depot might be better suited to BR Blue passenger loco servicing and stabling. A false shed gives the illusion that the left hand end of the depot is longer but there will only be room to stable the two locomotives, 3 if the headshunt is also filled. Additionally a kickback is provided off one of the shed roads for a single TTA tank to supply a basic refuelling point, shunted by a 08 or similar for variety.

 

It's quite simple but given my track record I wouldn't bank on it getting far, although for once at least boards are built. Just got to get track ordered for when I get back home, and hope I don't lose interest before then!

 

[ginger j]

Ye gods that's small....... I'd probably lose something that small! (I've mislaid bigger items in the past......) In all seriousness though, nice layout idea you have there. Very practical space wise yet big enough for some interesting shuffling of locomotives. I shall watch with interest. Good luck with the project Saddletank.

 

G.J

[Saddletank]

I know, it's smaller than most small layouts fiddle yards, you should see the first micro idea I had, a harbour terminus in a space 24x16cm! - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72973-cd-box-harbour-station/

 

Shame that didn't work out, it was just too small to work as a first effort, the intention is that this is more manageable and conventional, therefore I should get to see trains running quite quickly. I've still got it, for another day perhaps.

 

Its a shame I'll not get to start this project in earnest for another couple of months, I work away for weeks at a time and have a holiday coming up. Might have made progress if I could procure the turnouts locally but sadly there are no decent shops stocking N gauge anywhere near me. By the way, it was planned to be about 6cm shorter still but I was only allowed 3 cuts per board in B&Q - boo! 60cm it'll have to be, suppose we can manage with that.

[Guest nzflyer]

Will be following this with keen interest 

[Russ (mines a pint)]

Liking this idea, as a fan of 'futers' style of layouts this has been one that I've fancied building for along time, too young for the O gauge Lochty diesel one but I do remember seeing the steam version 'Coldharbour Lane' which has more in common with your plan anyway (low relief shed) - even got started with pointbuilding for an EM version but it got no further (than even finishing the points!) so good look with getting finished

Will be following this with keen interest

 

What he said

 

[Saddletank]

I saw Futers 3 point plans in a copy of Railway Modeller last year, this is the one that stuck with me as a neat idea, although his island platform idea which has since developed into Gallowgate, coincidentally shown in this months RM, also piqued my interest.

 

 

However when I tried to translate his plan for the diesel depot into a track planning application, the dimensions were way off, no idea what size points he uses, he specified medium radius ones but these appear to be no longer than 6" on the plan, and with not enough space in the headshunts for some larger locomotives. He had 4'6" in OO, I have 2' in N so slightly smaller proportionately, but no way could I fit in the same exact track pattern as he's shown!

 

This is my interpretation therefore, I'm not keen on the separating overbridge quite overused in railway models so avoided it in mine, and didn't quite have the width to include a full length loco shed - though why you'd want to hide away a loco inside one beats me! I also couldn't agree with such an odd track arrangement located on the end of a spur line but with a double kickback into the shed roads, just didn't feel right. Setting it in an urban location ostensibly built over an old piece of railway land where the track breaks cover between cut & cover tunnels, on a lightly used relief passenger route, fits the cramped nature of the site better I reckon.

 

 

So, ordered up the track today, and also treated myself to a new Dapol 26 to kickstart my BR Blue stock collection. Just got to get cracking on layout building now, but not for at least another month yet

 

But only because I'm away on holiday at the end of the week

[Russ (mines a pint)]

I think you are quite right the top headshunt on the plan would struggle to take a shunter - if the grid lines are correct.

-possibly something lost in translation between scales, I remember seeing the actual layouts and thinking very planklike - even in O- I would be surprised if a foot deep?
your plan looks much tighter front to back is more like the 'Coldharbour lane' I remember seeing both in an exhibition and in RM sometime in 90's (similar time to 'Newcastle Haymarket')
- Just the doorways to the shed shown, I can't remember if the doors were open or closed.

 

Would consider putting in an option for a cassette on the left hand end so you can run short trains (DMU?)  right through on the rear line, in case loco shuffling becomes boring - but you might have already thought of that?
 

 

and treated myself to a new Dapol 26 too to kickstart my BR Blue stock collection

 

def. thumbs up I just got a green one despite having just sold off all the rest of my n gauge stuff

 

 

 

[Saddletank]

Glad I'm not alone in thinking the dimensions are a bit off - although the article was written by him, so I'd have expected he'd get his own plans correct at least. Struggling to find photos of coldharbour lane now but maybe that's no bad thing, I might end up nicking all his ideas accidentally. Thought about opening one of the doors if I could get hold of a spare or repair loco to cut the end off and just have its nose sticking out - possibly on a loco lift? - though I know I've seen this in a magazine recently!

 

I had thought of a cassette, or at least making a hole to accept one before cutting one out becomes too intrusive. I've also considered extending that left hand tunnel out almost to the point toe, precisely to give more off scene storage. Could just about take a bubble car at that length.

 

Lovely little models, I always falter over buying locos even though I'll spend the same on any amount of tat that goes straight into the projects box!

[Russ (mines a pint)]

- although the article was written by him, so I'd have expected he'd get his own plans correct at least. Struggling to find photos of coldharbour lane now but maybe that's no bad thing, I might end up nicking all his ideas accidentally

Again it's probably a slip-up between the original writing/plan and what they have done with it in the publications software/drawing stage-

 

Coldharbour Lane was back in the 90's so looking through a secondhand stall of RM's (I don't still have it) might be a better bet than looking on the 'net - unfortunately cant remember exact date/yr?

 

I had thought of a cassette, or at least making a hole to accept one before cutting one out becomes too intrusive. I've also considered extending that left hand tunnel out almost to the point toe, precisely to give more off scene storage. Could just about take a bubble car at that length.

 

would certainly increase the operating potential and wouldn't the route learner 122 in all blue possibly backdated into one of the ScR numbered sets go nice with the blue 26

 

 

[Saddletank]

Finally got home from sea earlier today, lovely wee Dapol 26 waiting for me which was nice - incredibly well detailed for something so small, the intricacy of N gauge always manages to astonish me having played with a relatively chunky OO gauge Hornby trainset when I was younger. That 3 way point is an impressive thing too.

 

I've been refining the layout slightly to delineate the initial 'straightness' of the design, not easy with so little space available but here's the before and after anyway.

 

 

Land at the top of the old brick retaining walls is coloured brown, the modern concrete loading area above the running line is coloured blue to differentiate it. Slightly shifting the access point and covering the first headshunt by moving the tunnel entrance has given opportunity to run bubblecars or similar upto a length of 17cm between the covered sections, giving an impression of passenger trains on the line running alongside the depot. As Russ mentioned, I'll look at making a hole for a fiddlestick to access one or both covered sections to improve stock handling and vary traffic.

 

Otherwise it's pretty similar to the first incarnation, headshunts permit locos upto around 15cm which covers pretty much every British diesel locomotive I reckon. I've widened the gap between tracks I to the shed to move the fuel point so both tracks can be used as fuelling roads. No idea if this is prototypical practice, but wondered if keeping the fuel point accessible only from one road would add more operating challenge with multiple locos in the depot.

[65243]

 

Coldharbour Lane was back in the 90's so looking through a secondhand stall of RM's (I don't still have it) might be a better bet than looking on the 'net - unfortunately cant remember exact date/yr?

 

 

 

There was a preview of Coldharbour Lane in the March 1998 RM; I believe a full article followed in April that year, although I don't have that issue.

[Saddletank]

Trying out the revised track layout for size, its good. Even the long 66 can just clear the point blades to fit into the road where the 26 is shown. There might even be just space enough on the longer stabling road to fit 2x smaller BR Blue locos: 20s, 24s, 26s, 27s etc, giving the impression of an undersized and over stretched depot. Enough room in the headshunts and just noticed I've got 6mm more baseboard length to play with than I had on the plan - doesn't sound like much but an extra scale 3ft is very handy on something this small!

 

[Steve Purves]

Only just seen this one... I like it, it looks like some good quality shuffling will be taking place!

[Saddletank]

Cheers, I've been thinking about this a bit recently, finally past that couple of busy months where modelling materials haven't seen the light of day. Next week is completely clear so hoping I might be able to progress this, unless the other half makes plans for my time off.

[Saddletank]

Haven't forgotten about this, I'm just waiting on some electrical components arriving before I can lay the track and start shuffling - the Easter hol slowed everything down and I'm reluctant to try and retrofit point motors. Its frustrating, I keep thinking about all the little end details but can't even make a start just yet.

 

[ILikeTrainsTom]

That's a lot of points in a small space! 

[Saddletank]

Be careful what you wish for! Received point motors and a couple of other bits today so I'm having a go at laying the track and wiring up. I won't get too far since the CDU and transformer for the point motors didn't arrive but if I get all the trackwork down this weekend I'll be a happy bunny. Currently fighting a SEEP motor down to size to fit under the point closest to the front, that fibreglass is properly itchy!

[Saddletank]

Getting there, don't want to stick anything down permanently til point motors have been tested but at least everything should be ready to solder up tomorrow. Oh I hate electronics, can't wait to move onto something more enjoyable like ballasting or watching paint dry.

 

[Dannyboy2891]

^{Hi Saddletank,}

 

^{Just found your most enjoyable thread about your layout .. Can I just say that this is a great idea and for such a small layout, it works perfectly in N gauge. I really look forward to your next update and may I ask what other blue diesels did you plan to run when running blue diesel era?, though please do post new modern loco's to  I Really like the earlier photo's with the 66 and 67.. absolutely Awesome.}

 

^{Kind Regards}

^Dan  

[mjcampbell]

This looks great, and reminds me of a OO scale depot I built in the 1990's...

 

Of course a little extra width would be nice, but more space is always desirable, no matter how small/big the layout! Why are you hiding the track at the rear left? There's hardly any track as it is so don't hide it unless you need to! I'd leave it exposed, perhaps disappearing behind the shed building as though it continues to a yard (or used to!). 

 

I'm no expert but I think the fuelling points are usually away from the workshops, and where locos stop to refuel while moving on and off shed, rather than where they are parked. So I'd suggest putting the fuelling point at the front right where you had the class 26 posed. Then I'd pull the two shed tracks parallel and relatively close, leaving a slightly larger gap to the "running" line behind (perhaps even a fence to protect workers?). 

 

For cassettes I've used plastic conduit for covering plumbing pipes. This may be too big for your needs (50mm wide, I'm using 009), but check out other sizes of electrical and plumbing conduit, the're really easy to make. They could slide in from the right-hand end.

 

 

[Saddletank]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions, I did suggest a long gestation for the build and that will continue to be the case unfortunately: by the time the electrical components were delivered I was recalled to work early where I'll be (away from home and the model) for at least another fortnight. The joys of work!

 

No promises about the privatisation era locos but maybe changeable details and signs etc will allow it in future. There's enough room to fit the 66 all the way into the depot via the multiple switchbacks, so it could happen. Keeping with BR Blue, I've got the 26 so next will prob be a 20, 27, 37, 08 (for the fuel tankers) and whatever else I fancy. I'd like to hint at the Scottish region, so appropriate motive power will be dictated by that.

 

The idea for the 'tunnel' on the left hand side is that the line disappears in a believable manner, and can hold a loco or 1 coach DMU (the 122 mentioned earlier) in a way that suggests it is heading along the tunnel, while the loading bay over the running line to the right was intended for a similar reason though is not so important now an exit to cassettes has been planned in. Having a wall directly behind the headshunt will nicely frame locos in the way a plain length of track disappearing into a tunnel wouldn't, I reckon. There wasn't a way to hide the left end of the line with a building because of the space constraints, with much more board depth available I'd have put a view blocking big building but that wasn't the point of this exercise, it was to do it in a small space and make the 'rest of world' exits believable while being able to put a passenger service down the line.

 

The Futers plan version of bringing stock onto the layout just didn't do it for me, it seemed like a model of a model rather than anything typically found in the UK. That's my excuse anyway, and I like the claustrophobic feel of a too-small depot crammed into scrap urban land.

 

I have thought about having the fuelling point there instead, there's nothing stopping that happening and I did think the intended portakabin in that corner a little naff. Would locos refuel in a siding directly off the mainline though, I thought the headshunt was probably unused for such purposes as it was meant to protect the mainline from runaways from sidings (and depots), plus refuelling on the headshunt means access to and from the depot is blocked during fuelling. I'm happy to be proved wrong though, it would balance the features better.

 

I haven't decided on a method for cassettes yet, being a first layout its one of many things I'll have to get to grips with, thanks for the tips on your method of building them.

[mjcampbell]

I guess the prototype would protect the main line with a catch point, but just setting the 3-way point away from the main line would do the job, so I think it's a safe place for the refuelling.

[18B]

Love little layouts like theese,

 

Interested to know how the layout is coming on,

[Saddletank]

Cheers, I want to get a move on with it but changed jobs a few months ago and haven't found much time to get stuck back in yet. Just as well I'm not trying to build anything bigger!