R.O.D.

[sem34090]

Warley 2016 I picked up Volume 1, but didn't realise Volume 2 was even a thing!

[1ngram]

I'm trying to persuade a transfer manufacturer to bring out a sheet of ROD loco letters and numbers.  I think Arial is the nearest to the lettering etc they use provided you substitute l for 1.  But I'm struggling with the height of the letters.  Somewhere I am sure I have read they were 3 feet high which would be 12mm in 4 mm scale but I can't find the reference again.  Can anyone help me here?

 

Well I've just found a line in Aves that says the lettering was 20" high.

Edited June 27, 2018 by 1ngram

[Ronny]

I'm trying to persuade a transfer manufacturer to bring out a sheet of ROD loco letters and numbers.  I think Arial is the nearest to the lettering etc they use provided you substitute l for 1.  But I'm struggling with the height of the letters.  Somewhere I am sure I have read they were 3 feet high which would be 12mm in 4 mm scale but I can't find the reference again.  Can anyone help me here?

 

Well I've just found a line in Aves that says the lettering was 20" high.

 

I'd buy a set or two!

[1ngram]

Here is my attempt.  It is in Arial in 28 point white on black for a printer which can't print white.  Obviously if I could get someone to print white transfers it would be a lot better.  I've used the letter l instread of the 1.  Looking at all the photos it would appear that the letters were different sizes on different locos but this size seems average. Lettrers and numbers could be cut out separately and placed to suit tender length.

 

Edited June 29, 2018 by 1ngram

[jwealleans]

Try John Peck at Precision Labels for white transfers. Very reasonable prices and very quick turnround.

 

I was going to ask if these were loco transfers - someone (Modelmaster?) already does the rolling stock markings, I believe.

[Chris hndrsn]

Here is my attempt.  It is in Arial in 28 point white on black for a printer which can't print white.  Obviously if I could get someone to print white transfers it would be a lot better.  I've used the letter l instread of the 1.  Looking at all the photos it would appear that the letters were different sizes on different locos but this size seems average. Lettrers and numbers could be cut out separately and placed to suit tender length.

 

This thread may interest you: https://www.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/forum/case/873760/

[1ngram]

I contacted Precision yesterday afternoon, redrew the letters/numbers in plain type, ordered an A5 sheet and, lo and behold, they arrived by post this morning in Aberdeen!

 

Keeping 8 lines (4 locos worth) for myself I have another 4 locos worth I can pass on at cost to anyone wanting them for £2.00 a pair (one loco) inc post.  Just contact me at kennclark@btinternet.com.

 

It seems to me that there was some inconsistency in letter heights with larger locos like the Baldwins and the tank losos sometimes having larger ones.  I've used Arial and the regulation(?) height of 20 inches.

[1ngram]

At the Falkirk Show yesterday I acquired (from Douglas Blades) a copy of the massive "British Military Railways Overseas in the Great War"  Big book, even bigger price - £50 !

 

Lots and lots of reading here but Chapter 24 is of especial interest to ROD modellers.  Entitled R.O.D. Broad Gauge Rolling Stock on the Western Front and written by Dr. Paul E Waters,  It provides comprehensive information and some photos of the various types of wagons the ROD had.  Even better there are 8 scale diagrams of ROD wagons "reworked from SNCB sources" .  They are:

Standard RHC 10/12 ton open wagon (4 types with marginal differences)

20 ton Open with tarpaulin bar

20 ton Open with brakeman's platform

Canadian Car and Foundry 20 ton Covered Van

20 ton Continental Pattern Boxcar

Steel Bodied 20 ton Covered Van

20 ton Covered Van with brakeman's platform

12 ton 9' 8 and a half wheelbase British Covered Van

 

To my untutored eye the first of these looks just like the Bachmann (and Dapol?) 7-plank wagons but I don't know if there are models or kits of any of the British built wagons available.  Four of the Covered Vans were built to Continental designs with a view to selling them on there after the war and I'm sure no kits in 4mm exist.  With the drawings scaled up to 4mm size (they are very small in the book), scratchbuilding would be possible, but given the leaps and bounds there have been in 3D printing in recent years,  it would certainly be possible to make suitable ends and sides for these various wagons and put them on suitable 12' chassis.  The text says too that many of the vans were given corrugated iron roofs as a protection against shrapnel.

 

I intend contacting the author to see if it is possible to acquire larger copies of these drawings.

 

This chapter also has photos not in Aves of ROD tank wagons and purpose built wooden bodied brake vans.

 

The rest of the book consists of detailed articles and memoirs on a whole range of ROD activitiies and, despite the swingeing price, definitely worth acquiring

[SDJR7F88]

Hi all. 

Following the build of my 009 Scale WW1 Trench Railway - Amiens 1918 (see attachment), I've been really bitten by the bug of modelling the railways of the First World War, and of course the ROD. 

I've been renumbering a number of RTR models to roughly re-create locomotives that service on the front, and so far have built up a fleet about about 8 ROD Locomotives in various shapes and sizes. This has many been thanks to the wonderful "The Lines Behind the Front: The Railways in Support of the British Expeditionary Forces in the Great War" book. So far it's the only place I've seen a picture of one of the serving LBSCR E4 on the front, which came in very handy for one of my renumbering projects. 

Here's a few pictures of the latest ROD Locomotives to join the fleet, Hornby J15 / Y14 ROD 911, Bachmann LBSCR E4 ROD 562 and Oxford Rail 'Dean Goods' with the early style of ROD Branding, with just the ROD Text on the tender (another great picture in the book). The ROD text and Number of 10mm Stick letters that i found for just over a £1 and are the closest I've found to date, even if that are a bit over sized on some models.

Here's a link to my full topic, showing more of my ROD Fleet. Hope it's of interest.

 

[James Harrison]

How long was khaki a ROD livery?  Was it a temporary paintscheme replaced with black, or was it a long term livery but applied only to the GWR moguls? 

[sem34090]

I believe that, contrary to what the Great Western Society, Bachmann, Hornby and Oxford seem to have perpetuated, the general ROD livery in Europe was black. I have yet to see a photo which purports to show an ROD loco in a lighter colour, though would be happy to be proven wrong.

 

Whether or not Khaki was used in the Middle East I am unsure - Certainly the photos of LSWR Adams 0395 0-6-0s show them pulling LSWR Ambulance stock whilst still in LSWR Holly Green with 'LSWR' on the tenders! Most peculiar to see that sight transported to the Middle East, the train seeming so at odds with its surroundings!

[PhilJ W]

Perhaps it was the same as the LGOC buses, pressed into service still in civilian colours and painted when the paint became available.

[sem34090]

Not in the case of the 4300s, for certain - The 4300s that were sent were essentially built for the ROD and sent straight from Swindon.

 

Indeed I think all locos were repainted that went to France as I've yet to see a photo of an ROD loco operating in Europe in it's civilian livery. Obviously the LSWR machines mentioned above were an exception. I think everything else went into ROD Black.

[1ngram]

.  In the recent “British Military Railways Overseas in the Great War” compiled by The British Overseas Railway Historical Trust there is a chapter by Dr. P.E, Waters detailing the ROD broadgauge locomotives.  There he says:

 

“Liveries varied.  Locomotives requisitioned in the early stages were usually sent to France in the livery of the owning company, but later locomotives were painted dull black . . . .Some engines may have been painted grey when new.”  (page 309)

 

In William Aves first book on the ROD “The Railway Operating Division in France”  he says on page 128:

 

“Such photographic evidence as survives indicates that where engines were repainted by their parent companies before dispatch, they were turned out in plain or matt black, or dark grey.”

 

Then on page 129 he says:

 

“As time went by, most ROD tender locomotives were repainted plain black. . .”

 

The intended Hornby ROD loco, ROD 5662, for example,  is based on a photo of the loco on its return to Eastfield shed in 1919, which photo appears in Aves book on page 118.  There are two other photos of these locomotives in Aves’ second book on the ROD (The Lines Behind the Front), of ROD 6682 again at Eastfield in 1919 (page 79), and a lone one in France of ROD 5666 on page 71). The colour of these locos could be a faded dirty black or a dark grey.  There is no evidence that they were ever coloured khaki and by 1919, when the photograph Hornby are undoubtedly copying was taken, they would almost certainly have been repainted.

 

So, Dark Grey or Black. I think the latter most likely but have a look at the photos yourself.  The only reference I've ever seen to any ROD locos in khaki is that some of the newly built Baldwins may have started out in khaki but were repainted black during 1918.  I've never seen any justification for Oxford's khaki  Dean Goods and I really hope that Hornby abandon their intended khaki J36.  Their justification is  a comment in a NBRSG magazine based solely on thre B+W photographs the Study Group have.  The article by Euan Cameron appears in issue no. 125 and is entitled “The Holmes 18” 0-6-0s.”  Of their colours when in the ROD he says:

 

“Several photographs exist of NBR locomotives as returned from war service: the locomotives were painted in all-over drab which may have been khaki or dark grey, though khaki would have been the easiest colour to apply over the NB livery of the time.”  But this is mere supposition and is contradicted by every other writer - as shown above.

 

[ClaughtonSteve]

I've only just come to this topic.  Just to say that I have a copy of the LNWR society publication "LNWR Great War Ambulance Trains". Within that publication are details of "Headquarters Staff Train" built by the LNWR for Hague. There were 12  carriages 42' 0" x 8' 6" and 2 carriages 45' 0" x 8' 0".  

[MikeD43]

There has been some discussion above regarding the SNCV stock used by the ROD. A number of years ago I visited the AMTUIR museum at Schepdaal near Brussels in Belgium. This had at that time an ex-ROD Hawthorn Leslie Type 19 tram loco on display (HL 3228/1917 ROD 244 SNCV 979) - I have attached a photo - not very good I'm afraid. There was also an 10 tonne open wagon SNCV A.20592 WD 1219 built in 1916 by Birmingham R C & W - again photo attached - I have some more photos of axleboxes, ends, etc if anyone is interested.

[Edwardian]

Thanks for that. lovely loco. According to Wiki, Hawthorn, Leslie & Co built steam tram locomotives for the Railway Operating Division in 1915; they were copies on SNCV type 18.

 

[Trevor_Edmonds]

The British placed an order for 10 copies of the Type 18 tram motors with Stephenson in September 1915. Further orders were placed in 1916 for a further 20 from Stephenson and 20 from Hawthorn Leslie. They were intended for use on the French metre-gauge line from Bollezeele to Herzeele which had been connected to the Belgian lines serving Poperinghe and Ypres to support an expected advance. The tram motors (and wagons that had also been ordered) were sent to France between April and July 1917. By then the British had lost interest in the metre-gauge lines in the Second Army area given the extensive broad-gauge construction work in the Second Army area. The risk of losing Hazebrouck in the expected German advance in spring 1918 renewed interest in metre-gauge. The 85th Canadian Engine Crew Company and later the 6th Australian Broad Gauge Railway Operating Company took over the line from the French. 42 of the 50 British built motors were then at Bollezeele. 

 

While the tram motors were copies of the Belgian Type 18, the British builders had imperial tooling and had to convert. After the war 48 motors were taken over by the SNCV, but were classified as Type 19 due to incompatibilities.