Washout at Dawlish

[Mike_Walker]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

Cross Country trains are still running in both directions along the sea wall but the signallers are queueing the trains and sending them two or three in sequence each way between Teignmouth and Dawlish Warren, there are less signals controlling the bi directional working and trains travelling south are running a lot slower in that direction.

 

Signal DM203A at Cockwood Harbour.  Not caused directly by the weather, but by a boat moored in the Exe Estuary which broke free and was driven ashore colliding with the signal.  As a result all Down traffic is being operated over the Up line between Exeter West and Teignmouth with pilot working.  The UM is not provided with bi-directional signalling except between Dawlish Warren at Teignmouth and the layout of crossovers means that once a Down train crosses to the Up at Exeter West (By the Exe relief channel bridge) it cannot regain the Down line until it reaches Teignmouth.  As a result there were severe delays and cancellations.

 

XC services terminating at Exeter in extreme weather conditions is normal, the Voyagers do not like passing through the "Dawlish Train Wash".  The IETs aren't too happy either despite assurances from Hitachi that they would cope...

[melmerby]

Quite clearly these were two different disconnected issues.

Damaged signal and bad weather at Dawlish

When I posted southbound trains were reaching Dawlish Warren as usual on the down line then waiting until signalled onto the bidirectional section to Teignmouth.

Two or three would run, then up trains were taking their turn.

 

Seems OK now as the LB (Line blocked) has been removed from the signal berths

[KeithMacdonald]

1 hour ago, Mike_Walker said:

Signal DM203A at Cockwood Harbour.  Not caused directly by the weather, but by a boat moored in the Exe Estuary which broke free and was driven ashore colliding with the signal.

 

I'm still trying to find the relevant section in my old copy of ColRegs for that kind of manouvre. Perhaps one of the traffic separation schemes should apply?

[KeithMacdonald]

2 hours ago, Mike_Walker said:

XC services terminating at Exeter in extreme weather conditions is normal, the Voyagers do not like passing through the "Dawlish Train Wash".  The IETs aren't too happy either despite assurances from Hitachi that they would cope...

 

Anyone got some Class 118 DMUs still in working order?

 

{Old git mode}

Why, it's not like it was in my day (1968-ish). When we were inside those Class 118 DMUs, they went straight through the Dawlish Train Wash and kept running. It wasn't just the outside of the DMU that got a wash, it was the inside and the passengers as well.

{/Old git mode}

Edited February 13, 2021 by KeithMacdonald
typo.

[Ramblin Rich]

Of course, the sensible option would be to couple 2-3 trains together & run them through as a single unit...

[DCB]

"A boat collided with our signal,"  that ranks right up there with "The wrong kind of snow."

Might be cheaper to relay the track from Meldon Jct to Bere Alston

[101]

At Powderham there's a boatyard/yacht club with yachts parked up on a narrow strip of land between the estuary and the railway, it's the only place where I was ever cautioned by a signalman "as there may be a boat in the four foot !" 

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Ramblin Rich said:

Of course, the sensible option would be to couple 2-3 trains together & run them through as a single unit...

Not quite sure a class 800, a Voyager and a 156 would be happy partners in a "consist"

 

Anybody know where the coupling adaptor for a 156 to class 800 is?

Edited February 13, 2021 by melmerby

[TheQ]

19 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Not quite sure a class 800, a Voyager and a 156 would be happy partners in a "consist"

 

Anybody know where the coupling adaptor for a 156 to class 800 is?

Dingham, Spratt and Winkle, Alex Jackson?

[Chris M]

Bring back steam! Steam locos can cope with a bit of sea water better than these new fangled things. The crews might get a bit damp though.

[Granitechops]

4 hours ago, 101 said:

At Powderham there's a boatyard/yacht club with yachts parked up on a narrow strip of land between the estuary and the railway, it's the only place where I was ever cautioned by a signalman "as there may be a boat in the four foot !" 

And I remember, about mid 1980s after a storm a small boat ended up in the middle of the tracks right in the centre of Starcross Station, having being flung over the station railings by the storm. but I do not have a photo of it.

[class26]

6 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

"A boat collided with our signal,"  that ranks right up there with "The wrong kind of snow."

Might be cheaper to relay the track from Meldon Jct to Bere Alston

 

I would suspect that if the total cost of patching up Dawlish over many years was added up it would be cheaper to build a new line. What is sad is that we all know ultimately a new line will have to be built, this seems like denial. 

[jcredfer]

1 hour ago, Granitechops said:

And I remember, about mid 1980s after a storm a small boat ended up in the middle of the tracks right in the centre of Starcross Station, having being flung over the station railings by the storm. but I do not have a photo of it.

 

6 hours ago, 101 said:

At Powderham there's a boatyard/yacht club with yachts parked up on a narrow strip of land between the estuary and the railway, it's the only place where I was ever cautioned by a signalman "as there may be a boat in the four foot !" 

There were a number of moorings at Starcross Station and it must have been quite some storm to heft one of those over the riverside wall, although probably not the first time.

 

Starcross Yacht Club {Powderham}, boats were raised on the land, behind a stone wall, and the rail lines were 6ft above that, and a fence.   It also had many well established trees, to keep it well sheltered from errant winds.  I suspect that the signalman had a sense of humour. 

 

[Robert Shrives]

The pic of the errant signal did show it had taken a right clout and the post as good as snapped off above a fixing - some rust did show so a bit of an own goal to add to the eembarrassment. Possessions were planned to remove signal and replace with a) nothing and have long block working  or b) fix a spare post in temp at low tide  and replace with new head - I suspect a LED "Dorman" will be much lighter and the paperwork to get it out to drivers not that much of a problem - but then this is the railway ... 

 

Friday night most of the GWR services were booked double sets or single long so coupling up a mega train at Exeter might in the modern day presented problems.  IIRC the Exe bay suburban service was curtailed due to length of SLW - EXD - Teignmouth crossover. A big thanks to the pilotman on the day a lot of work involved in safe working of trains.

XC ran 1V64 through to get 4 sets west for services today and Plymouth crews home. 

 

It has been said in thread before while having a diversionary over old route possible- if we can put folk on the moon  etc.  but other than being always able to run ammunition and  troops  the route is commercial suicide for journey time arguments for Intercity operators, but does at least give the facility when required.  Folk way above my pay grade will discuss a near coastal inland diversion in time but really how much of Cornwall and West Devon will be left habitable if tidal changes makes Dawlish impassable on a permanent basis... 

happy days !

Robert        

[Gwiwer]

43 minutes ago, class26 said:

 

I would suspect that if the total cost of patching up Dawlish over many years was added up it would be cheaper to build a new line. What is sad is that we all know ultimately a new line will have to be built, this seems like denial. 

A new line - meaning perhaps the reinstatement of the LSWR inland route - does not address the continuing need to serve Torquay, Paignton, Newton Abbot, Totnes, Dawlish, Teignmouth and even the under-used Ivybridge.  There is very little traffic potential on the inland route and the arguments for rebuilding this, or for an inland "coastal" route, simply do not add up and have been done to death.  The coast is an expensive line to maintain but remains the best option.  

[brianusa]

1 hour ago, Gwiwer said:

A new line - meaning perhaps the reinstatement of the LSWR inland route - does not address the continuing need to serve Torquay, Paignton, Newton Abbot, Totnes, Dawlish, Teignmouth and even the under-used Ivybridge.  There is very little traffic potential on the inland route and the arguments for rebuilding this, or for an inland "coastal" route, simply do not add up and have been done to death.  The coast is an expensive line to maintain but remains the best option.  

True enough, but the reason for the BA - TAV rebuild is to alleviate the road congestion from Tavistock to downtown Plymouth especially for commuters.  It would be a harder sell for the line between TAV and OKE with Meldon viaduct in the way, although it might be smart to rebuild both at one time and get it over with.  This whole saga has been done to death as mentioned and it looks as though it might be yet again!

        Brian.

[Ramblin Rich]

7 hours ago, melmerby said:

Not quite sure a class 800, a Voyager and a 156 would be happy partners in a "consist"

 

Anybody know where the coupling adaptor for a 156 to class 800 is?

Precisely why I put the devil emoji in

[rab]

19 hours ago, melmerby said:

Not quite sure a class 800, a Voyager and a 156 would be happy partners in a "consist"

 

Anybody know where the coupling adaptor for a 156 to class 800 is?

Binder twine ???

[KeithMacdonald]

Just watching trains going down the up line on Dawlish Beach Cam

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsD21zBb73o

 

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, KeithMacdonald said:

Just watching trains going down the up line on Dawlish Beach Cam

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsD21zBb73o

 

I was looking just after 9AM and the San Remo camera got a wash from the waves which were breaking over both tracks and further.

The only train that went through (slowly) was some sort of engineering MU on the up line but it wasn't clear because of all the spray.

Edited February 14, 2021 by melmerby

[KeithMacdonald]

Sorry, I forgot to say, when I was watching an hour ago, saw a Cross Country Class 220 train.

 

One of these?

 

Quote

 

Virgin Trains is pleased to confirm that its entire Voyager fleet of 78 trains has now been modified to overcome the sea-water problem that was preventing the trains operating in storm conditions on the exposed sea-wall at Dawlish, Devon. The modifications were completed by Bombardier on 30 November in a 48 hour engineering blitz.

The Voyagers were designed to run through sea-spray, but were unable to cope with the exceptional storms that have hit the Devon coast since 8 October. These storms threw thousands of gallons of salt water onto electrical equipment on the train roof, causing the on-board computers to shut the train engines down before the water had time to drain away.

Voyager trains have an engine under every coach, and the solution has been to modify the train software to allow the computers to think "smart" and keep the engines running selectively on unaffected coaches. Under the new modification, storm water should only cause an engine to shut down on one or two coaches, whilst the train will continue operating on the remaining engines.

Once through the storm area, the computers will automatically attempt to re-start the failed engine(s) on up to three occasions without any intervention from the driver. This gives a five-coach train up to fifteen chances of getting through the affected area (five engines, each with three chances of re-starting).

 

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20061016083818/http://www.virgintrainsmediaroom.com/index.cfm?articleid=272

[KeithMacdonald]

Sit.Rep. 14:22

GWR Class 150/2 (in green) just trundled past, on the up line.

[mdvle]

16 hours ago, brianusa said:

It would be a harder sell for the line between TAV and OKE with Meldon viaduct in the way, although it might be smart to rebuild both at one time and get it over with.  This whole saga has been done to death as mentioned and it looks as though it might be yet again!

 

The smart thing to do at the moment is wait - let's see what happens over the next couple of years once NR has finished doing their work to improve things at Dawlish.  With the exception of any future boats having issues with signal masts it may well be enough to solve the issue for a couple of decades at least.

[Robert Shrives]

It is good to see the replaced bull nose on the section rebuilt up to Parsons tunnel is much more effective in turning waves back on the themselves and and only moderate spray strikes the track and walkers about as seen on cameras last few days.

A voyager was used on the seawall to get hit during the Amber weather warning period and this was then subject to special checks so hopefully some of the merry faff with turning back  trains - Canute plans ! will be a thing of the past and hopefully 800s will get similar mods .  I guess the 165 invasion will see these modified in light of experience.  

Future works will see signalling works I am sure to see more bi directional signalling and perhaps more crossovers at Dawlish Warren to enable more flexible working in the future. Given EXD PSB is early 80s upgrades sooner than later. - To give a Devon / Cornwall mini ROC, ready for Independence from the UK...   

[melmerby]

37 minutes ago, mdvle said:

 

The smart thing to do at the moment is wait - let's see what happens over the next couple of years once NR has finished doing their work to improve things at Dawlish.  With the exception of any future boats having issues with signal masts it may well be enough to solve the issue for a couple of decades at least.

The one thing that NR don't want is another washout but I assume a few delays because of big waves at high tide is undesirable but tolerable.