Washout at Dawlish

[PhilJ W]

10 minutes ago, bgman said:

 

 

Just saying '

 

 

 

I wonder if the air cylinder filled with water?

[APOLLO]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

I worked with (and drank beer with) all three of those fine engineers at various times and I would say that none was better-informed than either of the others. They were all experts, complementing each other's abilities.

 

There lies the problem in many industries today - The knowledgeable & experienced engineers have retired and been replaced by computer whizz kids and techno geeks.

 

Brit15

[RJS1977]

1 minute ago, APOLLO said:

 

There lies the problem in many industries today - The knowledgeable & experienced engineers have retired and been replaced by computer whizz kids and techno geeks.

 

Brit15

 

Point taken:

 

 

 

[APOLLO]

"I Can Do More Damage On My Laptop Sitting In My Pajamas Before My First Cup Of Earl Grey Than You Can Do In A Year In The Field."

 

 

“- Q: Right. Now pay attention 007. First, your new Train. Hitachi IET 8xx with gears. All points radar. Self destruct system (in Dawlish storms). And, naturally, all the usual refinements. Now, this I'm particularly proud of - behind the headlights, stinger missiles!
- James Bond: Excellent, just the thing for unwinding after a rough day at the office.
- Q: Need I remind you, 007, that you have a licence to kill, not to break the traffic laws.”

 

Brit15

[jamie92208]

8 hours ago, melmerby said:

Yes an infamous "British failing".

I seem to remember several European countries also suffered but our brit-bashing media didn't mention that.

Also the USA.  The GG1 fleet was taken out one year by a very fine type of powder snow in very cold conditions,  The powder went straight through the air intake filters on the traction motor blowers and shorted out the traction motors.

 

Jamie

Edited December 8, 2021 by jamie92208

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, APOLLO said:

"I Can Do More Damage On My Laptop Sitting In My Pajamas Pyjamas Before My First Cup Of Earl Grey Than You Can Do In A Year In The Field."

 

 

 

[boxbrownie]

6 minutes ago, melmerby said:

 

Urghhhh! 

[Titan]

4 hours ago, APOLLO said:

 

There lies the problem in many industries today - The knowledgeable & experienced engineers have retired and been replaced by computer whizz kids and techno geeks.

 

Brit15

 

When I was there, it was the "computer whizz kids and techno geeks" that kept the Networkers running, they put in a hell of a lot of hard work and long hours and it was often only down to them that we could maintain any kind of service, along with a few exhumed EBPs.  They very soon became experienced!

[eastwestdivide]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

 

from the Hindi पाजामा = (phonetically) paajaama

[Oldddudders]

1 hour ago, Titan said:

 

When I was there, it was the "computer whizz kids and techno geeks" that kept the Networkers running, they put in a hell of a lot of hard work and long hours and it was often only down to them that we could maintain any kind of service, along with a few exhumed EBPs.  They very soon became experienced!

Once you put a computer onto a train, then the geeks have a real role, without a doubt, getting the best out of it in many ways. 

 

I note you survived OfQ. I vaguely remember going on an L5000 course at the Derby Hilton in Jan 1991, but am not sure that OfQ much affected me directly. I was in Director, Projects from 1990, and in June 1996 it became BR Projects as a private company. 

[APOLLO]

18 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Once you put a computer onto a train, then the geeks have a real role, without a doubt, getting the best out of it in many ways. 

 

I note you survived OfQ. I vaguely remember going on an L5000 course at the Derby Hilton in Jan 1991, but am not sure that OfQ much affected me directly. I was in Director, Projects from 1990, and in June 1996 it became BR Projects as a private company. 

 

So NOW we know who to blame !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Brit15

[Oldddudders]

3 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

 

So NOW we know who to blame !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Brit15

For which particular iniquity?

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, eastwestdivide said:

from the Hindi पाजामा = (phonetically) paajaama

The English spelling is with a "Y" so would expect anything to do with Bond to be so.

 

[APOLLO]

2 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

For which particular iniquity?

 

British Rail much traveled thus stale Pork Pies ? (OfQ - Office of Food Quality) !!

 

Just joking. In the gas industry we had lots of technological change, some involving electronics. Some worked very well, and some, lets say we only tried them once. For me the introduction of a computer controlled plastic pipeline fusion joint machine was a game changer - a wonderful piece of kit, sturdily built for outdoor use.

 

With the ICE trains & Dawlish, it's not rocket science. Heavy salt water spray and electronics etc do not mix. So - ensure they don't, better weatherproofing etc. It would be interesting to know the exact reason for the two trains failing at Dawlish the other day, and what is needed to eradicate it.

 

Brit15

[ess1uk]

1 minute ago, melmerby said:

The English spelling is with a "Y" so would expect anything to do with Bond to be so.

 

Bond was Scottish?

[Oldddudders]

5 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

British Rail much traveled thus stale Pork Pies ? (OfQ - Office of Food Quality) !!

I'm not sure pork pies were much on offer in more recent times. But I do admit Deb (late first wife) was Marketing Manager for Travellers Fare from the mid-80s, and a partner in their management buyout. She/we didn't make a penny out of it, though. Of course train catering had long since been divorced from station catering by then, and a former BR accountant had been drafted in to make it an up-market gourmet experience. I think the Sectors got rid of him. 

 

By the way, the famous BR sandwich was, in more recent times, made by the same firm that did sarnies for M&S, among others. Didn't stop the music-hall rib-ticklers, though... 

[Gwiwer]

10 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

With the ICE trains & Dawlish, it's not rocket science. Heavy salt water spray and electronics etc do not mix. So - ensure they don't, better weatherproofing etc. It would be interesting to know the exact reason for the two trains failing at Dawlish the other day, and what is needed to eradicate it.

One problem over an extended period of time is that the UK has largely lost its ability to design and build trains for its particular needs and circumstances. 
 

When the Warship class was redesigned from a perfectly good German design it failed to live up to expectations in the UK.  But the products of York, Swindon and Derby (with honourable mentions to other locations) generally worked and did so well for long periods of time. 
 

The global marketplace has seen off most of our skilled train construction. We assemble these days, or we import.  Many hundreds of perfectly good class 66 locos cane from Canada. Most multiple units of recent times have come from Germany or Spain with some local assembly and fitting out. 
 

Would we have better “Dawlish Resilience” had British engineering designed and built for British conditions successors to the hugely-successful and largely Dawlish-proof British HSTs?  
 

 

[Titan]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

Once you put a computer onto a train, then the geeks have a real role, without a doubt, getting the best out of it in many ways. 

 

I note you survived OfQ. I vaguely remember going on an L5000 course at the Derby Hilton in Jan 1991, but am not sure that OfQ much affected me directly. I was in Director, Projects from 1990, and in June 1996 it became BR Projects as a private company. 

 

Did you have to endure the Lenny Henry "Qality" video?  Actually to be fair I actually found it quite amusing in the way it got the point across.  Some of those training videos have made it to youtube, but not the "Qality" one, you will know what I mean if you saw it!

Edited December 8, 2021 by Titan

[Titan]

13 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

 

Would we have better “Dawlish Resilience” had British engineering designed and built for British conditions successors to the hugely-successful and largely Dawlish-proof British HSTs?  
 

 

  

I do wonder to what extent it is due to a desk top analysis  - the new trains have several engines and can just about limp along even if only one is left running.  Someone will have decided what the odds are of all engines failing at the same time and done the sums to demonstrate how unlikely complete train immobilisation is - built in redundancy or so it would seem. Did they take account of if all engines are simultaneously and repeatedly subjected to the same failure mode condition, that the odds of them all failing at once are almost the same as one failing when considered in isolation?

Edited December 9, 2021 by Titan

[Re6/6]

Regrettably there now seems to be a tacit acceptance within GWR that these failure incidences will be normal from time to time, despite all the assurances about the abilities of IETs  to withstand sea water problems.

As we all know HSTs could take on these conditions in the past. The situation is not helped by there being no 'old school' Thunderbirds, and the some IETs not being able to couple together (?) and that there is only reversible working on the up line.

NR are doing an excellent job on their part but the commitment of the T.O.C. to provide stock that is fit for purpose for their part seems woefully missing.

[fezza]

I don't know about the legendary "strategic steam reserve" but we certainly need a strategic HST reserve.

 

Or maybe all those 50s weren't really scrapped but were carefully camaflagued as rotting hulks before being hidden in a bunker somewhere near Aldershot...

[Oldddudders]

56 minutes ago, Titan said:

 

Did you have to endure the Lenny Henry "Qality" video?  Actually to be fair I actually found it quite amusing in the way it got the point across.  Some of those training videos have made it to youtube, but not the "Qality" one, you will know what I mean if you saw it!

If I saw it I have no recollection. I do know that we had a team of WR S&T Engineers with us. One was a chap I'd already heard of who, in training when told the advantage of colour light signals was their greater visibility through haze, asked "What about through Southall?" I wish I'd thought of that...

[Gwiwer]

54 minutes ago, Re6/6 said:

but the commitment of the T.O.C. to provide stock that is fit for purpose for their part seems woefully missing.

Not only with reference to Dawlish-resilience.  The seats (even the supposedly-better ones on the 802s) are still woeful and have forced at least the two of us to abandon the use of IETs for travel between London and Cornwall.  The lack of catering facilities on a journey of up to six hours - disregarding the Covid-effect for now - is also offputting.  There could have been proper provision as on the LNER units but instead there are largely redundant kitchen areas occupying half a car and a trolley if you're lucky for both classes.  The chance of finding anything as substantial as a sandwich is pretty remote and the hot water doesn't last more than a couple of hours though could be replaced from the kitchen - which in our experience it isn't.  So you can bring your own or go without.  Not an attractive offering in any way I'm afraid and somewhat short of fitness-for-purpose.  

[eastwestdivide]

2 hours ago, melmerby said:

The English spelling is with a "Y" so would expect anything to do with Bond to be so.

 

Yes, just pointing out that there’s an interesting reason for the alternative English spelling with pa-.
And yes, British English tends to use py- and American English pa-  although my 3000+ page OED lists pa- as an alternative spelling of py- without mentioning any Am.E./Br.E. distinction. 
I wonder how they spell it in the Bond screenplay!

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

 One was a chap I'd already heard of who, in training when told the advantage of colour light signals was their greater visibility through haze, asked "What about through Southall?" I wish I'd thought of that...

I do hope he wasn't being serious.