Washout at Dawlish

[Coombe Barton]

People were saying that they were cut off last year, but IIRC that was after the Exeter floods

[BlackRat]

There will be NO diversionary network, this after all is the theme park that is Devon and Cornwall and we can't have that spoilt by nasty trains or roads.

 

The roads in Cornwall aren't that good, there's no dual carriageway passing through county, and Devon has only a wee bit of motorway.

 

No, they'll patch up at Dawlish, and things will be back to usual before we know it.

 

Think how lucky you are if you have good road and rail networks.

 

We've just got used to it.

 

Now Gert Orf moi land!

[edward66]

I've just seen this topic and the BBC weatherman's explanation for the continuing storms. I am in the USA where this "Arctic vortex" has pushed the Jetstream almost to the Gulf of Mexico and it has been moving south-north-south like a yo-yo for many days causing a succession of Arctic blasts and huge snowfall in the north. From there as he remarked the Jetstream rushes across the Atlantic way too far south and is moving at high speed so poor old Britain gets a real bashing. I can tell you that the situation is still with us here so you can expect more storms over there for some days yet.

 

Poor old Michael Fish will never live down his "no there won't be a hurricane" forecast and the clip of his forecast was shown yet again!

 

I feel for the folks in those houses near the washed out tracks, looks like one or two of them could easily collapse completely.

 

Edward in freezing Arkansas.

[scorpion]

nobody seems to be looking at this as coastal erosion, just a washout, a lot of the east coast has disappeared for good, unrestorable,

 

if this is the same sort of thing you cannot restore it, it is gone, lost to the sea

 

the next few days will reveal the true situation

[Peter Kazmierczak]

BlackRat, on 05 Feb 2014 - 22:24, said:

The roads in Cornwall aren't that good, there's no dual carriageway passing through county, and Devon has only a wee bit of motorway.

Not wishing to sound pedantic, but isn't the main A30 dual carriageway (with many graded intersections)from the Devon border to half a dozen miles short of Truro, except for the short section over Cardinham Moor?

 

That's more than we've got down here in Dorset.

[surfsup]

People were saying that they were cut off last year, but IIRC that was after the Exeter floods

 

 

Well, technically the south west wasn't quite as cut off as the media suggests. Yes Cowley Bridge and surrounding areas did of course flood but it was only when The Mule also started to suffer the combination of landslips near Honiton (plus another part of the line which I've forgotten) and the flooding of the flood plain around Axminster which then caused the only remaining open route to the South West to be closed too.

 

Reopening of the former Southern Route seems to be one of the most talked about, and yes it's not too far a greater distance between end to end but that route would then require 2 reversals enroute, large amounts of upgrading the route to mainline standards and could still be at the mercy of the weather in the form of the weather upon Dartmoor, The low lying stretches around Ernesettle and... Cowley bridge again. Oh and there's the problem of Meldon Viaduct and the approaches into Tavistock. By which time you could have potentially achieved a better effort with one of the mooted 'Dawlish Diversionary Routes' - One of which I've seen would branch off the Heathfield branch, head up towards Chudleigh across towards Dunchideock and down into Exeter via the Alphington branch. The problem is, is that this brings a fairly graded line requiring 4 tunnels and 4 if not potentially 5 viaducts. And that would cost how much???

 

Anyway, having friends down that way I gather things haven't been a good 24 hours for anyone along the South West Coastline - I gather from a friend of mine that the old Institute building at Kingsand has suffered rather badly from the waves and the stretch of line between St Erth and Penzance also suffered a fair amount of debris being washed over the wall and onto the line. Thoughts are certainly with my friends on the coast in Devon and in Dawlish and to CK and his team - It's not going to be an easy few days with more swells and tides forecast, and that isn't going to be an easy stretch of line to fix. 

 

I do wonder though, would the Sea Wall fair a little better if the coastal path was continued at the same height along this stretch? I.E built up to match the rest of the sea wall helping to provide the wall with a bit more strength?  

Edited February 5, 2014 by surfsup

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Just had a thought

 

In the fullness of time when the oil runs out, would it be possible to convert motorways and dual carriageway main roads into electric-powered railways?

[Kris]

Just had a thought

 

In the fullness of time when the oil runs out, would it be possible to convert motorways and dual carriageway main roads into electric-powered railways?

 

Not in Cornwall, They're too steep.

[surfsup]

Also, if anyone's interested this is the list of units that are apparently trapped.

 

Class 150: 150125, 150129, 150130, 150131, 150202 and 150219 - 150130 should be in Laira at the moment as that's the unit which struck a tree in Cornwall.
Class 153: 153305, 153329, 153369, 153372, 153377
Class 220: 220013, 220014
Class 221: 221127, 221134

[Etched Pixels]

Not in Cornwall, They're too steep.

 

Steep is fine (with a bit of levelling), modern trains do steep better than corners.

 

The long term weather predictions are a currently continuous series of storms until at least the end of February and quite possibly longer. Indeed this may be a new "normal" mode of wather for a UK winter. That isn't going to speed up repair either.

 

I don't think the "don't rebuild it option" is real - there's a small matter of nuclear goodies for the boys in Devonport, especially if the Scots leave the union. Moving it might be in the longer term. The costs go up year on year, the number of delays and lack of service days goes up year on year. The cliffs get more and more unstable.

 

At some point it's going to be cheaper to fix it properly.

 

The good new is Eric Pickles is now in charge of dealing with the floods, and I can't help thinking he'd fit that breach in the sea wall quite nicely ;-)

[brightspark]

Just had a thought

 

In the fullness of time when the oil runs out, would it be possible to convert motorways and dual carriageway main roads into electric-powered railways?

I believe that is now regarded as Heresy! The petrol heads in the ministry of cars and lorries know that 1. petrol will never run out. (we can get it from somewhere...go on turn out your pockets) and 2. that (private) cars are better than trains any day.

 

The cynical part of me suspects that the earlier mentioned option 3 is a real contender unless KC & Co can come up with an economic option for repair in a timely manner.

Even if the line is repaired I fear that it could be argued that the cost of running the line (including repairs lost business, lack of future growth, upgrading with over head electric etc) will not be viable. I hope I am wrong of course.

 

A question has occurred to me that others may know the answer to. How did this line fare in the Beeching report? 

[10800]

nobody seems to be looking at this as coastal erosion, just a washout, a lot of the east coast has disappeared for good, unrestorable,

 

if this is the same sort of thing you cannot restore it, it is gone, lost to the sea

 

the next few days will reveal the true situation

Whilst nearly all coastlines are eroding, the rates vary considerably from centuries with little discernible change to several metres per year. In general the south west is in the former category, and most visible evidence is on sea stacks at headlands - for example the 'Clerk' on the 'Parson & Clerk' between Dawlish and Teignmouth has continued to diminish in stature over recent years. But this coastline is not comparable to, say, Dunwich or Holderness.

[10800]

A question has occurred to me that others may know the answer to. How did this line fare in the Beeching report?

 

No threat. Intercity route and there's a city called Plymouth further west. Edited February 5, 2014 by 10800

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Also, if anyone's interested this is the list of units that are apparently trapped.

 

Class 150: 150125, 150129, 150130, 150131, 150202 and 150219 - 150130 should be in Laira at the moment as that's the unit which struck a tree in Cornwall.

Class 153: 153305, 153329, 153369, 153372, 153377

Class 220: 220013, 220014

Class 221: 221127, 221134

Do you know the position re-HSTs please?

[surfsup]

Do you know the position re-HSTs please?

 

 

At the moment no, but I'm hoping to find out later. But from memory I think there's currently 4 FGW HST sets down there as well as a spare PC at Laira and one of the Night Riviera sets.

 

There was some good forward planning made by FGW on the Tuesday though with several units sent along the Sea Wall during Low Tide with one forming a Exeter - Penzance service, whilst in turn the last of the 143s made it back to Exeter - Ensuring that the 143s were kept to Exeter and a handful of 150s and 153s kept on the Plymouth side.

Edited February 5, 2014 by surfsup

[BlackRat]

Like I said, there's no dual carriageway passing through the county. It stops at Temple, and again at Carland and again at Camborne.

 

I won't even mention the 38!

[phil-b259]

Just seen you on the tv news

 

Which channel?

[Bomag]

Like I said, there's no dual carriageway passing through the county. It stops at Temple, and again at Carland and again at Camborne.

 

I won't even mention the 38!

 

You can also say the same for Norfolk, East Riding, Northumberland, West Sussex, Kent. Being pedantic since there is nothing to the west of Cornwall no D2 could pass through the county.

[RJS1977]

You can also say the same for Norfolk, East Riding, Northumberland, West Sussex, Kent. Being pedantic since there is nothing to the west of Cornwall no D2 could pass through the county.

To go any further would be Scilly...

[jamie92208]

Just seen a very good interview from Dawlish with someone called Hallgate from Network Rail.  (Not our Captain) He came across very well and made some exfcellent points.  One very good one is that theya re moving the spray concreteing machine from Whiteball tunnel to try and shore up the sand backfill undert the houses as a temporary measure.   All in all it was a very good interview and he was allowed to make some technical points in a good and understandable way.  Some of it was what KC put on here last night.  He was also asked if it was worth repairing the seawall and the answer he made was worthy of a good politician.

 

Somthing along these lines:-

"We've got to repair it now but if other options need to be looked at for the future we'll take part in that debate."  (I paraphrase.)

 

Jamie

Edited February 6, 2014 by jamie92208

[chrisf]

NR's Robin Gisby was on the Today programme a little while ago.  He was talking about the need to ensure the resilience of the route and a study of possible alternatives. 

 

Wonderful though it is, the line along the sea wall was not one of IKB's better ideas!

 

Chris

[Fat Controller]

I do wonder if some sort of artificial reef offshore (as has been done elsewhere, using redundant ships) might serve to reduce the force of the waves in future? 

[roundhouse]

Network Rail have certainly had their work load massively increased with all this storm damage, not only at Dawlish but elsewhere on top of the planned engineering works.

 

I wish them  all the best with this work let alone thepotential problems with warning of further storms approaching.

 

I know others have mentioned it but with the talk of extending Bere Alston to Tavistock, it must be on the radar to think about reopening between there and Meldon. I know that Tavistock station has been built on but that hasn't stopped other schemes elsewhere in the country.

[Coombe Barton]

Wonderful though it is, the line along the sea wall was not one of IKB's better ideas!

 

Didn't he need somewhere level-ish for the atmospheric?

Edited February 6, 2014 by Coombe Barton

[petethemole]

Anne(?) Morris, MP for Newton Abbot has just been on BBC News 24 coming out very firmly in favour of retaining the line with two extra sea walls, which are apparently already under discussion, one to be built soon and one further along.

 

Pete