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Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)


ChrisN
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  • RMweb Gold

I have been doing experiments with 6 wheel chassis.  I have decided to trial the MJT 6 wheel wagon chassis.  I have got a, well three, Brassmasters Cleminsons but that will need me to get my soldering iron out and I am trying to do simple.  So here is what I am using

 

post-11508-0-19059900-1520026426_thumb.jpg

 

 

So, I cut out a piece of clear plastic, probably 20 thou, with a nice bend in it.  You may notice that on the three above I have scored in where my bolts will go.  (I did take a photo of a box of nuts and bolts from Maplins but forgot to take it off my camera so you will just have to imagine it.)  Wanting the hole to be as accurate as possible, I drilled it with a 0.5mm drill, then a 1mm drill, and finally a 2mm drill.  I did this three times, (Obviously).  I then marked the correct positions on the plastic and repeated the drilling procedure.  I then took some 2mm bolts, (M1?) and bolted the end two on.  MJT supply a doubled piece of wire which in the instructions says it is 0.3mm but I found the holes that did not accept it had to be drilled out to 0.6mm.  So here it is

 

post-11508-0-60187800-1520027469_thumb.jpg

 

The bolts I started with tight so the only movement was the sideways movement of the centre axle.  I used some 2nd radius setrack with a straight on the end.  Here is the result.

 

post-11508-0-01038400-1520027668_thumb.jpg

 

You will notice that the middle axle is raising on one side, also the coins which were to counteract the warp.  I then tried it with the bolts loose, same result.  I then tried a single 0.4mm wire through the centre hole.

 

post-11508-0-85377000-1520027770_thumb.jpg

 

I thought that as the wire was thinner and only one it would drop.  The result was the same.  I then did a home made Cleminson, with the same result.  I then realised that even though the nuts were loose the projections on the W irons were stopping them rotating.  Out came the washers, and in a fit of inspiration I also turned the plastic over so I only needed coins in the middle.

 

post-11508-0-51737700-1520033118_thumb.jpg

 

It now did what it was supposed to do and even went happily around reverse curves.  Here it is showing that the wheels are on the rails.

 

post-11508-0-73768300-1520033203_thumb.jpg

 

I then was a little concerned about how much room I would have so tried again with fixed end axles and found that if I used a piece of folded card as a spring it worked fine, well sort of ok.  My next move really is to build a coach and using the chassis that has to go under it make everything as it should be.  I have been quite heartened by this picture of a MSLR brake composite which I am doing at the moment and the solebar is quite a long way out and the footboards even further.  This should give a little more room to play with as normally they are further in.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking

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Chris.

 

I think your wire is too stiff. I suggest going to your local guitar shop, and seeing what they’ve got. If you’re lucky, there will be some E, B and G strings in the bin, and you will get them for free! I think two flexible wires will be better than one stiffer one, but I’m not sure why this seems right to me.

 

If you’re even luckier, there will be a low E as well, and that will form an excellent source of steam heat and vac pipes...

 

Even if you have to pay, a fiver should give you plenty of material (in which case, Amazon might be a simple solution)

 

Best

Simon

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  • RMweb Gold

Chris.

 

I think your wire is too stiff. I suggest going to your local guitar shop, and seeing what they’ve got. If you’re lucky, there will be some E, B and G strings in the bin, and you will get them for free! I think two flexible wires will be better than one stiffer one, but I’m not sure why this seems right to me.

 

If you’re even luckier, there will be a low E as well, and that will form an excellent source of steam heat and vac pipes...

 

Even if you have to pay, a fiver should give you plenty of material (in which case, Amazon might be a simple solution)

 

Best

Simon

 

Simon,

The first pair of wires were definitely too stiff.  The second single wire seemed fine but I will give your idea a go.  I have a son who plays guitar so I will ask him.

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I have a guitar, indeed I have three guitars, however I do not have the skill to play them well, nor the patience to practice!

 

It’s frustrating, when I bought the last one, I got a strap, and a hard case for it, and the guy said “anything else I can help you with, sir?” And I said, “yes, could I have a large helping of talent too, please”, so he looked under the counter and replied, “sorry, we’re all out!”

 

You can treat your son to a new set of strings, the old ones will do your coaches just fine.

 

Best

Simon

Edited by Simond
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  • RMweb Gold

Hi Chris,

Very good bit of experimentation there, I love it!

Well done, Sir.

John.

 

 

Proper engineering there Chris. Come up with a solution and then adapt it to do the job.  I like it.

 

Don

 

 

Thank you both.  I ought to be able to , that was part of my training, and my job although not in an engineering context.  We shall just have to see how it works out in practise.

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  • RMweb Gold

Good stuff, Chris. With the wires connecting the wheel-sets, are these free to slide in the holes at the moment?

 

Nigel

 

Nigel,

The end ones are free to rotate if I do not tighten the nuts and because the centre one is connected by a thin wire it will slide sideways without any problem.  If I tighten the nuts at the end it will need some sort of spring to hold it in place and it 'sort of' slides.  I will need to have some mechanism for ensuring it only slides sideways.  I will try it again with guitar wires as Simon suggested, and again try it with fixed and rotating end axles.  Until I have built the first coach I am not sure how much space there is as this chassis is designed to go inside and so there will be a little bit more width.

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Evening Chris

 

I am following your experimentation with these quite keenly as I have some of those MJT fittings as well, I will get around to it one day as I have ten 6-wheel Siphons to build/modify so they go around some of the sharper curves on my branchline.

 

I may get some of the Cleminson ones later from Brassmasters as I have been meaning to for quite some time, it just seems to be one of those jobs I haven't got around to yet.

 

It as good to catch up earlier and I must make more effort to keep it that way.

 

Keep up the good work

 

Jim

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  • RMweb Gold

Thank you everyone for your ratings and comments, it is most encouraging.

 

Now for something, er interesting?  I was reading Bradshaws the other night, well there is nothing against it, and came across something interesting.  Now I am talking Bradshaws December 1895.   At 9.50 (mrn) the Birmingham and North Express left Paddington for Chester, first stop Oxford.  It arrived at Chester at 3.33 (aft) a total of 5 hrs 43 mins.  According to Bradshaws there was no through route to Barmouth so this express did not have the through coaches that left Paddington every morning.  However, if you changed at Shrewsbury and Welshpool you would get to Barmouth at 6.15 (aft) in January 1895 or 6.35 (aft) in December 1895.  (They slowed their timings!)  I find that interesting as that is the time that the LNWR through coaches arrived which left Euston at 9.30 (mrn).  It/they were bound for Pwllheli, hold that thought for a moment.

 

 

At 10.00 (mrn) another train left Paddington for Chester.  It made its first stop at, wait for it............. Westbounre Park, a total of 3 minutes later.  Next stop Ealing Broadway (GW) 10.16 (mrn).  Yes this will take a while, and it arrives in Chester at 4.33 (aft) a total of 6 hrs 33 mins, so perhaps as long as you might have feared.  The latter part of the journey it is running about an hour behind the Birmingham and North Express and arrives at Ruabon at 4.2 (aft), eight minutes before the train to Dolgelley leaves, the one that connects directly with the Cambrian train to Barmouth.  This is why I am certain that the through coaches were not on the earlier train as it would have meant the through coaches waiting around for an hour as there was no train earlier.  Now the through coaches would have arrived at any time in 1895 at 6.50 (aft) to find waiting for it the train that arrived up to 35 minutes earlier.  The reason being that it had a through coach to Pwllheli as well. 

 

So the choice was between, if you wanted to go to Barmouth, catching a slightly earlier train and changing twice, carrying any luggage you had, or staying in the 'comfort' of a through coach and arriving later.  Also if you arrived early and got on the wrong train.......

 

Finally, just out of interest as I will model neither train, what would the formations of these trains been?  Would the express have been the latest coaches and the 10.00 o'clock older stock?

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

Edited by ChrisN
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  • RMweb Gold

Chris,

 

You do need to keep the centre axle perpendicular to the vehicle as it slides. Couple of bits of plasticard? They’ll stop it shifting fore&aft too.

 

Best

Simon

 

Simon,

That is what I was thinking.  However, the wires are not much below the top of the axle so it will have to be fine tuned.  Of course as I think about it I could add some plasticard to the top of the axle and that would work.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • RMweb Gold

I have guitar wires but have not carried out any tests.  I will wait until I am nearly ready to build a chassis.  You may wonder what I have been doing.  The answer is, not a lot.  Three of my four coaches are laminated and are below.

 

post-11508-0-32697600-1522010755_thumb.jpg

 

Top to bottom they are, Lavatory Composite, brake composite, all Third.  You can see on the third the back of one set of laminations showing the breathing holes.  I have made the inner laminations smaller than the others.  Why?  I did not do it scientifically just, 'oh that will do'.  The beading I have decided to do one bit at a time as you can effect the panel you have just done when ding the next.  So it is one rod on each of two ends, then a panel on each side, then on to the next.  When I have done that I will do something else.

 

However for the next five weeks I shall not be around except at weekends.  I am having to work a five day week, (horror of horrors!)  We have a brand new department and I will have to 'acceptance test' the machines.  I will be away from home and probably without internet, but not without some Ratio coach kits.  I will start to build the Dolgelley train.  (One brake third is mostly done but that was from a while ago.)

 

At weekends I shall continue laminations, and panelling.  The last coach to be done is the Gas Cupboard Third.  If anyone could tell me what they were used for I would be grateful.  Did they have gas tanks in the cupboard ad not under the floor?  Did they supply a whole train?  (There were not that many.)  I will reply at the weekend sometime.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

Edit to say sorry the picture is terrible and you can hardly see any detail of the structure.

Edited by ChrisN
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  • 2 weeks later...

I have guitar wires but have not carried out any tests.  I will wait until I am nearly ready to build a chassis.  You may wonder what I have been doing.  The answer is, not a lot.  Three of my four coaches are laminated and are below.

 

attachicon.gifThree part done.JPG

 

Top to bottom they are, Lavatory Composite, brake composite, all Third.  You can see on the third the back of one set of laminations showing the breathing holes.  I have made the inner laminations smaller than the others.  Why?  I did not do it scientifically just, 'oh that will do'.  The beading I have decided to do one bit at a time as you can effect the panel you have just done when ding the next.  So it is one rod on each of two ends, then a panel on each side, then on to the next.  When I have done that I will do something else.

 

However for the next five weeks I shall not be around except at weekends.  I am having to work a five day week, (horror of horrors!)  We have a brand new department and I will have to 'acceptance test' the machines.  I will be away from home and probably without internet, but not without some Ratio coach kits.  I will start to build the Dolgelley train.  (One brake third is mostly done but that was from a while ago.)

 

At weekends I shall continue laminations, and panelling.  The last coach to be done is the Gas Cupboard Third.  If anyone could tell me what they were used for I would be grateful.  Did they have gas tanks in the cupboard ad not under the floor?  Did they supply a whole train?  (There were not that many.)  I will reply at the weekend sometime.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

Edit to say sorry the picture is terrible and you can hardly see any detail of the structure.

 

This will be a wonderful set of coaches; good work!

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  • RMweb Gold

For all you following this thread I am afraid this is not a modelling update.  I have done some while I was working away but since I have been back life has taken over and I am not even able to find the time to photograph what I actually did.  However I have created a Silhouette file of Cambrian First Saloons Nos 9 &11.  Having seen the drawing, checked the photos in the books, seen the contradictory photo, checked, double checked and convinced myself the drawing was right I have produced a file for the coaches in post 1904 condition.  Fortunately, I found a piece of information last night, here, before it was cut that made me see my mistake.  I will redraw the ends, but also the sides as one side window is different as well.  If any one wishes copies of the files just let me know as I am happy to let anyone have them who would like them.

 

So now to the point of post.  I will be at Expo EM on Saturday.  Well I hope so, life is a bit difficult and unpredictable and I have not convinced my son and grandson to come so I would 'have' to go.  (I think my son would be happy for me to take my grandson without him but that would make it a little difficult.)  Let me know if you intend to be there.

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  • RMweb Gold

I am afraid this posting is one for Cambrian Aficionados.  (I am told it is not illegal.)  In my investigations of Cambrian Saloon coaches which I am still making Silhouette files for, I saw again a photograph on the top of page 27 in Cambrian Railways Album Vol in.  The photo is credited to H. W. Clifford and is of a coach in a field.  Green states that it is a saloon coach which shows the comfort provided to the gentry from the outset, having a double door luggage compartment at one end, a First Class Saloon in the middle and a third class compartment at the far end for the servants.

 

Now this is not numbers 9 or 11, as it is all wrong for them, even though No 9 was found in a field, just like this one.  It is much more like Nos 9 &11 in terms of its design than No 10 which is a third cass saloon of 1860.  Green states that it shows the comfort provided 'from the beginning' so I would have expected it to be mentioned in any early carriage lists.  Christensen does not mention saloons in either of his books, but Kindle mentions that in 1867 there is one saloon, which is probably the third class one, which makes no sense to me, or it was acquired second hand later, which also makes no sense to me.

 

I am ploughing my way through Mountford but have got past the time I think that it was built.  So does anyone know anything about this carriage?  It will be easy to make a Silhouette file for it as I will just take some of the parts from the pre 1905 First Saloons and re-arrange them.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

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  • RMweb Gold

I will post some modelling sometime, honest, not that I have had time for much.  However when I sat down tonight I was quite tired and had just finished the Third Class Cambrian Saloon on Silhouette.  I thought it would be fairly easy to make up the unknown but photographed First/Third from parts of the other two, and so it proved.  I have not drawn the panelling which is in squares as I can add that using plasticard 0.5mm 10 thou strip.  It is not finished as it needs lining up but here it is.

 

post-11508-0-03493400-1530137165_thumb.jpg

 

The later First class are 23ft 3" but when all the parts are put on I have reduced this to 22ft.  It seems to work with the photo.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • RMweb Gold

Still struggling to get anything done, life has been too busy recently.  However, if you have seen my GWR Coaches thread you will realise that I have probably added to my list of projects.  I believe I will need four GWR Clerestory non corridor coaches over and above whet I have in kit form and probably the best way to do this will be to hack up Triang Clerestory coaches.  To this end, as it is the easiest part of any project, I have purchased seven of the beasts for the princely sum of £35.00, yep five quid each.  Now I understand that they will need Dean 6ft 4" bogies.  I have found a seller on Shapeways who does them, and they will clip directly into the Triang coaches with minor adjustments.  The down side is that they are £5.78 each, yes nearly £12.00 per coach.  If anyone has a better idea or knows of a different supplier apart from Cooper Craft please let me know.

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Hi Chris

 

I know 247 developments now stock some white metal ones but I think they are around £7.50 each, the ones at the broad gauge society are a brass etch but dearer again.

 

I look forward to seeing further coach work when you get time, I have a few of those old tri-ang coaches but will just repaint them and add new bogies.

 

Jim

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Is this an update?  Most of what I will show I did while I was away from home working full weeks back in April and I only have just had time to photograph it, life has been a little busy.  If I have learnt anything from the experience it is not to accept medical equipment while the building you are doing it in is still a building site.  Anyway, enough of that, here is what I did.  As much as I wanted to take my MSLR coaches with me I knew I would not have my modelling lamp so it had to be easy on the eyes.

 

post-11508-0-44873900-1532269208_thumb.jpg

 

Yes narrow gauge toast rack coaches! 

 

No?

 

No.  I would not have those on my narrow gauge line. Another picture.

 

post-11508-0-25782000-1532269356_thumb.jpg

 

Yes Ratio four wheelers, the full third and composite.  Notes from building.  I measured the width and the height of the compartments onto a piece of thin card and made a nick in it not a pencil mark.  I used this to measure the sizes.  I then used a spare Ratio end to draw the top profile.  I then cut out the plasticard as a rectangle and began to cut the top corners of and gradually worked down towards the profile line.  I finished it off with a file.

 

I did not worry about the tumblehome and there is a slight gap between the compartment walls and the coach sides.  The theory is that I can slot the glazing between the two as it is actually fairly tight.  I marked the seats with the same card and cut it with a needle saw.  Very difficult to get it right.  I glued the compartment walls to the seats making a unit before sticking them in the coach.  On the third the walls were half way between the windows, but the composite was different.  The walls were equidistant between the windows between two first class compartments.  I measured this distance and marked it on the side between the first and second compartments so that the wall was offset between the two.  I cannot have fare paying passengers complaining about undersized compartments.

 

Bored yet?  An explanation as to why I am doing this as I am not just making them for the fun of it.  (Well, I am but there is a reason as well.)  The reason is on my Dolgelly coach thread.  The final train of the day from Ruabon to Dolgelley had a number, one or two, through coaches, so rather than uncouple them it will run through complete to Traeth Mawr.  The through coaches will be uncoupled at Traeth Mawr and the locoal coaches sent straight back and continue to Ruabon. 

 

Why did I leave one side off?  To help with painting, well that is the theory.

 

Right, here is one I did earlier.

 

post-11508-0-48298600-1532271315_thumb.jpg

 

A Shire Scenes T49.  It needs finishing off, brake gear and compartments.  This was only my second attempt at working with brass.  All glued, not soldered.

 

Finally

 

post-11508-0-54053800-1532271627_thumb.jpg

 

The brake at the other end.  My third attempt with brass.  The instructions said that it had an 18ft wheelbase and that if you used the new brass ends there would be a couple of mm gap between the end and the floor.  This I had experienced with the T49 so I decided to make a new floor.  I then checked Penrhos and when I was at home, Russell, and they both said that the wheelbase was 19ft, the same as the other Ratio coaches.  I contacted Dart Castings to see if they had other information and the reply came back that they had made a mistake and would change their instructions.  Still not wanting a short floor I have made a new one with the correct wheelbase. 

 

I am working on the chassis at the moment, then the compartments on these two brass coaches and hopefully the will be done in time for me to prime them outside before the winter draws in.  (I have managed to prime my first class whitemetal saloon but I am not going to take a picture of that.)

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

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  • RMweb Gold

Hi Chris, good to see progress on Big Beach  :) 

 

That toast rack looks good, if I remember correctly it is not an easyu job to make the seats fit. The T49 looks very neat. Shirescenes really must be applauded for not only keeping this range going, but also expanding it.

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