Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[Penrhos1920]

On 04/05/2020 at 09:29, Northroader said:

There’s a picture in “GWR country stations-2”,  Ian Allan 1984, of Bala Town station  with No. 539 on a train you might like.

 

I knew I’d seen that photo before.  John Lewis used it, his description reads “An idyllic scene at Bala.  Compare the leading coach which is 8’ 0 3/4” sides that have tumblehome and the other two coaches which are much older and only 7’ 6” wide. They also have flush ventilators as compared to the bonnet ventilators on the doors of the leading coach.  The leading one is of diagram T38 and design LA9N.”

 

“ Holden” coaches were still in use in London during the time Chris is modelling.  I don’t think many were displaced until 1910.

[ChrisN]

On 05/05/2020 at 13:51, Penrhos1920 said:

 

I knew I’d seen that photo before.  John Lewis used it, his description reads “An idyllic scene at Bala.  Compare the leading coach which is 8’ 0 3/4” sides that have tumblehome and the other two coaches which are much older and only 7’ 6” wide. They also have flush ventilators as compared to the bonnet ventilators on the doors of the leading coach.  The leading one is of diagram T38 and design LA9N.”

 

“ Holden” coaches were still in use in London during the time Chris is modelling.  I don’t think many were displaced until 1910.

 

Thank you.  I have been trawling through my diagrams to see what the coaches were and was coming to the conclusion that the ones further back were older than any diagrams I had.  I had started to go through your site but have had other things to do so I had not got as far as the 'T's.  It would have been a bit obvious if I had!  I was going to post my thoughts on the basis that when you do, someone who really knows then turns up, but I did not have to as you turned up anyway.

 

This looks like an early photo to me.  By 1895 539 was in Wolverhampton, then 1901, in Birmingham and 1914 in Bristol.  Obviously Wolverhampton was a mistake as it should have been sheded somewhere beginning with 'B'.

Edited May 6, 2020 by ChrisN

[NCB]

Re the other D&S tricomposite, 12 were built in 1895, diagram S, as bicomposite; 1st and 3rd compartments separated by lavatories, with separate internal  corridors for each class on opposite sides of the coach, so that the classes couldn't mix. 4 examples of a variant, diagram A, was built in 1902 with 1 third class compartment replaced by a second, the Cambrian having re-introduced 2nd class in 1900 (they first abolished it in 1893). The dates here are from the D&S kit notes, which may or may not be accurate.

 

Nigel

[ChrisN]

13 hours ago, NCB said:

Re the other D&S tricomposite, 12 were built in 1895, diagram S, as bicomposite; 1st and 3rd compartments separated by lavatories, with separate internal  corridors for each class on opposite sides of the coach, so that the classes couldn't mix. 4 examples of a variant, diagram A, was built in 1902 with 1 third class compartment replaced by a second, the Cambrian having re-introduced 2nd class in 1900 (they first abolished it in 1893). The dates here are from the D&S kit notes, which may or may not be accurate.

 

Nigel

 

Nigel,

According to Mountford these dates are correct.  You may be correct about the number of second class compartments shown on page 55 of Vol 1.  There is a HMRS drawing of a tri-composite that shows four third class compartments and one second and one first, each with its own toilet.  Also 274 at grouping is a brake third, so perhaps he got the number wrong as well.

[corneliuslundie]

I have 374 as a 45 ft brake third at the grouping, built in 1898 by Ashbury, and a note that "Nos. 274-277 altered from Composites to Brake thirds 12/11, 7/10, 4/12 and 12/11, respectively." but not sure where I got that information.

Jonathan

[NCB]

11 hours ago, ChrisN said:

 

Nigel,

According to Mountford these dates are correct.  You may be correct about the number of second class compartments shown on page 55 of Vol 1.  There is a HMRS drawing of a tri-composite that shows four third class compartments and one second and one first, each with its own toilet.  Also 274 at grouping is a brake third, so perhaps he got the number wrong as well.

 

That HMRS drawing seems to be the same as the one I obtained from the NRM.

 

Nigel

[ChrisN]

Steps out quietly, looks either way.  No quite safe, no 517s coming, not even pulling a tri-composite.  

 

I have got as far as I can with the loco but the photos are still in the camera, not that I have done very much.  However, I have done a little.  The loco will need a crew.  I have modified whitemetal figures, but it was @Mikkel who showed me it is possible to modify Andy Stadden's pewter figures.  So here we go.

 

 

These are two Edwardian workmen, but I am sure they could pass for GWR crew.  I actually found two Edwardian Enginemen but they were too big!  They were 00, and it is not that Andy Stadden's figures are too large but the cab space is small.  Many moons ago Mikkel had said that he often used H0 figures to fit into the tight space of a cab so that is why I pulled up these two.  There poses are not very dynamic.

 

Firstly the fireman, the man on the right.

 

 

 

 

I cut through the metal that held his left hand to his trousers and bent hi arm up.  I tried to do it at the shoulder and elbow but it looks a little bent along the forearm, but hopefully not too much.  You may ask what he is doing hanging off the side like this.  Well, firstly, how many loco crew do you see in this pose?  Secondly, it is the last train of the day.  This loco will only be on that train, so there will need to be a handing over of the 'Train Staff' to the signal man... I am assuming that the signal man, or lad, will be on the platform.  Whether I actually give him one is a mute point as he will not give it away the whole time that the loco is in the station,   That would slightly change his pose and may lead to the liberation of his right hand to hold on somewhere.

 

 

Here is the driver about to climb into his cab.  This gentleman is now raising his arm.  I showed him how to do this by cutting his arm off at the shoulder and gluing it in this position with superglue.  He hardly complained at all.

 

 

Here they are all in place.  (Don't breathe too hard they will fall over, they are not glued in!)  The driver has his hand on the regulator and should be able to see out of the front spectacle plate but his fireman will tell him if there are things he cannot see.  The fireman is looking out for the signal man/lad and the other gentleman?  I realised of course this is a 'foreign crew'.  They are GWR men, so the man at the back is the Train Inspector, who is an Andy Stadden H0 Station Staff figure.  He seems a bit worried about the fireman falling off.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[Mikkel]

Great to see some figure bashing Chris (only in modelling would such a statement be appropriate!).  They look good and now they are unique to Traeth Mawr, which is one of the things I like about modifying them 

 

I don't suppose this branch of the hobby will ever catch on widely, especially now that the 3D scanned/modelled figures are here - but Andrew's pewter figures really are convenient for modification, being soft and easy to cut. 

[ChrisN]

37 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Great to see some figure bashing Chris (only in modelling would such a statement be appropriate!).  They look good and now they are unique to Traeth Mawr, which is one of the things I like about modifying them 

 

I don't suppose this branch of the hobby will ever catch on widely, especially now that the 3D scanned/modelled figures are here - but Andrew's pewter figures really are convenient for modification, being soft and easy to cut. 

 

Mikkel,

Thank you.  Andy Stadden as yet has not produced H0 figures with separate arms and heads so I was unable to use them.  I think for most people the figures are an afterthought, which is a shame.  (There is a discussion on Sarn about what flowers would be out at the same time in Spring, but I think this is even more ignored than people.)

 

You may know I have mixed feelings about scanning.  I think for modern day figures, or for having yourself on the layout it is fine but I am yet to be convinced by the period figures for several reasons, although I have half a mind to find a typical three piece suit, a tunic shirt, tall collar and tie plus a bowler hat and get myself scanned.  

[brumtb]

15 hours ago, ChrisN said:

Steps out quietly, looks either way.  No quite safe, no 517s coming, not even pulling a tri-composite.  

 

I have got as far as I can with the loco but the photos are still in the camera, not that I have done very much.  However, I have done a little.  The loco will need a crew.  I have modified whitemetal figures, but it was @Mikkel who showed me it is possible to modify Andy Stadden's pewter figures.  So here we go.

 

 

These are two Edwardian workmen, but I am sure they could pass for GWR crew.  I actually found two Edwardian Enginemen but they were too big!  They were 00, and it is not that Andy Stadden's figures are too large but the cab space is small.  Many moons ago Mikkel had said that he often used H0 figures to fit into the tight space of a cab so that is why I pulled up these two.  There poses are not very dynamic.

 

Firstly the fireman, the man on the right.

 

 

 

 

I cut through the metal that held his left hand to his trousers and bent hi arm up.  I tried to do it at the shoulder and elbow but it looks a little bent along the forearm, but hopefully not too much.  You may ask what he is doing hanging off the side like this.  Well, firstly, how many loco crew do you see in this pose?  Secondly, it is the last train of the day.  This loco will only be on that train, so there will need to be a handing over of the 'Train Staff' to the signal man... I am assuming that the signal man, or lad, will be on the platform.  Whether I actually give him one is a mute point as he will not give it away the whole time that the loco is in the station,   That would slightly change his pose and may lead to the liberation of his right hand to hold on somewhere.

 

 

Here is the driver about to climb into his cab.  This gentleman is now raising his arm.  I showed him how to do this by cutting his arm off at the shoulder and gluing it in this position with superglue.  He hardly complained at all.

 

 

Here they are all in place.  (Don't breathe too hard they will fall over, they are not glued in!)  The driver has his hand on the regulator and should be able to see out of the front spectacle plate but his fireman will tell him if there are things he cannot see.  The fireman is looking out for the signal man/lad and the other gentleman?  I realised of course this is a 'foreign crew'.  They are GWR men, so the man at the back is the Train Inspector, who is an Andy Stadden H0 Station Staff figure.  He seems a bit worried about the fireman falling off.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

I can almost believe they're real people already, excellent!

Tony

[ChrisN]

7 hours ago, brumtb said:

I can almost believe they're real people already, excellent!

Tony

 

Tony,

I think Mr Price wants a word.  

 

 

“Well, I am pleased that you think they are almost real people.  I am saddened that most people think that Traeth Mawr does not exist, that it is just a figment of someone’s imagination.  Fortunately, that is not true, it is as real as I am.

 

“These three men on the loco I know personally.  The driver is Mr John Hughes.  He is a senior driver with the GWR.  He could be driving to expresses wherever he would want to, but he is a Dolgelley man, so applied for the job as a driver at Corwen.  He was so senior that of course he got it, so he means he can live locally.  He is married and has three sons, John, Robert and Thomas.  His wife’s name is Margaret.  His son Thomas has seen the light, joined the Cambrian.  He works here as the lad in the signal box.

 

“Now, the fireman is Mr William Griffith.  He has just been promoted even though he has been on this run for nearly six months.  He was a passed cleaner before that.  I thought they were taking advantage of him, so it was about time that they made him up.  Married to Mary, has a son and a daughter.  How do I know?  Mary is a distant cousin of my wife.  Came for tea the other week.  I told him he should come and join a real railway company; we would not take advantage of him.  He said that he had thought of joining a real railway company, but that the LNWR might take him too far from home.  My wife kicked me and told me not to get cross; as if I would!

 

“The Inspector is a Cambrian man through and through.  Lives in Dolgelley, but came from Barmouth, not his fault really.  His name is Mr Evan Lloyd.  He lives with his wife and four children in a Cambrian house in the town.  Unusual really the Cambrian buying a house not building it.  Still, there we are.

“So you see, three real people all doing a real job of work.”

[brumtb]

18 hours ago, ChrisN said:

 

Tony,

I think Mr Price wants a word.  

 

 

“Well, I am pleased that you think they are almost real people.  I am saddened that most people think that Traeth Mawr does not exist, that it is just a figment of someone’s imagination.  Fortunately, that is not true, it is as real as I am.

 

“These three men on the loco I know personally.  The driver is Mr John Hughes.  He is a senior driver with the GWR.  He could be driving to expresses wherever he would want to, but he is a Dolgelley man, so applied for the job as a driver at Corwen.  He was so senior that of course he got it, so he means he can live locally.  He is married and has three sons, John, Robert and Thomas.  His wife’s name is Margaret.  His son Thomas has seen the light, joined the Cambrian.  He works here as the lad in the signal box.

 

“Now, the fireman is Mr William Griffith.  He has just been promoted even though he has been on this run for nearly six months.  He was a passed cleaner before that.  I thought they were taking advantage of him, so it was about time that they made him up.  Married to Mary, has a son and a daughter.  How do I know?  Mary is a distant cousin of my wife.  Came for tea the other week.  I told him he should come and join a real railway company; we would not take advantage of him.  He said that he had thought of joining a real railway company, but that the LNWR might take him too far from home.  My wife kicked me and told me not to get cross; as if I would!

 

“The Inspector is a Cambrian man through and through.  Lives in Dolgelley, but came from Barmouth, not his fault really.  His name is Mr Evan Lloyd.  He lives with his wife and four children in a Cambrian house in the town.  Unusual really the Cambrian buying a house not building it.  Still, there we are.

“So you see, three real people all doing a real job of work.”

 

Good afternoon Mr Price

Thank you for introducing me to your Cambrian and GWR colleagues and their families. Sound men all I am sure.

I am wondering if you are acquainted with my wife's family of Cambrian Railways employees?  William Kilvington is a foreman in the locomotive works at Oswestry and President of the Oswestry Branch of the Amalgamated Society of Engineers and his sons and wider family are employed around the system, as far from Oswestry as Aberystwyth in some cases!

I have attached a photograph of William in case you come across him.  He is front row centre with his arms folded. 

 

Thanks Chris, much enjoyed

Tony

 

[MikeOxon]

Anyone who watched the DEVS TV series will know we all live inside a computer simulation.  Mr Price is quite right to point out that he is as real as any of us

[Simond]

It would be rather difficult to prove that you are not living inside a simulation.  I might well be a Turing machine.

 

 

Simon

[richbrummitt]

41 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

Anyone who watched the DEVS TV series will know we all live inside a computer simulation.  Mr Price is quite right to point out that he is as real as any of us

 

Like so many other things that is in my to-do list

[ChrisN]

3 hours ago, brumtb said:

 

Good afternoon Mr Price

Thank you for introducing me to your Cambrian and GWR colleagues and their families. Sound men all I am sure.

I am wondering if you are acquainted with my wife's family of Cambrian Railways employees?  William Kilvington is a foreman in the locomotive works at Oswestry and President of the Oswestry Branch of the Amalgamated Society of Engineers and his sons and wider family are employed around the system, as far from Oswestry as Aberystwyth in some cases!

I have attached a photograph of William in case you come across him.  He is front row centre with his arms folded. 

 

Thanks Chris, much enjoyed

Tony

 

 

Dear Mr Tony,

Thank you very much for your kind message.  I assume it must have come by letter as my contractor showed it to me.  He is never very clear when I ask him and he either mumbles or says incomprehensible things like, thread, internet and computer, all of which is nonsense.  I hope you receive this letter that I have written and given to him.

 

I am of course in the Amalgamated Society of Railway Servants so have not met Mr Kilvington in his Union role but I might have met him when I went for a tour of the works at Oswestry.  All very unofficial of course as tours by fellow Cambrian men was never encouraged, but never discouraged either.  It makes me feel proud that we have such a large works and build and repair our own rolling stock.  Well, rebuild anyway.

 

Now, I joined the Cambrian as a lad in 1864 and worked in the Ticket Office at Welshpool for ten years, and then applied and got a promotion to Tylwch.  I met my wife when I was there.  She was in service in LLanidloes, a long way from her home in Dolgelley. I then became Station Master at Fordep and finally in 1890 I came to Traeth Mawr.  I came here because I was born here.  It is entirely possible that I have met some of your wife's family, or at least know of them.  

 

Yours Sincerely,

Mr O. Price

[brumtb]

Dear Mr Price

Thank you for your interesting letter which did indeed reach me safely please thank your contractor.

Mr Kilvington was born in 1848 to a railway family in Foston Gate House, Yorkshire where his father was a platelayer and his mother attended the crossing  on the York & North Midland Railway .  His father subsequently rose to Permanent Way Inspector for the North Eastern Railway but sadly died in 1873 when he stepped out of the path of one train and into the path of another.

William learned his trade as an engine fitter in the North East of England and after positions in Hampshire and Derbyshire he joined Cambrian Railways in 1884 and intends to remain in the company's employment until he retires.

Thank you again and I hope to hear more about you and your colleagues at Traeth Mawr in due course.

Yours sincerely

Mr Tony

 

[southern42]

I agree that figures on the railway are more than just a passing or last minute thought.  I learnt that from our first layout, essentially a  dressed up 4ft x 1ft shunting plank.  At the time, with one broken arm out of action, I was left with the touching up bits of the layout - greenery, accessories, and figures.  Not a lot in physicality but in giving meaning and purpose to the layout, it was essential.  What I discovered was that the people not only told their own little stories (from 'I want an ice-cream' to mother and purse; boy out with Dad; buyer and seller; man with rucksack; young couple looking down from the bridge) they brought the railway to life. 

 

After that, figures took their form from the railway - time of year, type of day, activity, location, job, situation.  It also lead to how people and their activities on the layout may affect activity elsewhere.  So, there was a traffic jam in opposite directions on Camel Quay due to an event outside the hotel.  Vehicles were placed in reducing sizes as you looked at it making the rear vehicles look smaller and the road seem longer.  A trail of compost from the compost bin lead to a gardener.  Lining up figures helped to spot another figure in the background.  

 

And the more I used figures, the more I went for character, size and style to suit, but careful to: put oversized ones at the front and the smaller towards the back to enhance perspective and reality; find a small figure for a Hunslet and tall one for a Castle; and cut off the legs of the bus driver.  I think 3D figures are great for fine detail especially facial features but I simply love the character and magic of those sculpted figures.  I get a mix of excitement and that thumbs up feeling when I see figures that I have used, or have in my box, differently portrayed on someone else's layout.   And the more I see of figures used by others, as on here, the more my knowledge and appreciation grows, and the more adventurous I become, hoping that, maybe, that may inspire someone else in return.

 

Have I use 3D figures?  Yes, the BRM Mag figures on my snow scene cakebox entry!  Duly detailed, painted and weathered!  

 

Polly

 

 

[ChrisN]

1 hour ago, southern42 said:

I agree that figures on the railway are more than just a passing or last minute thought.  I learnt that from our first layout, essentially a  dressed up 4ft x 1ft shunting plank.  At the time, with one broken arm out of action, I was left with the touching up bits of the layout - greenery, accessories, and figures.  Not a lot in physicality but in giving meaning and purpose to the layout, it was essential.  What I discovered was that the people not only told their own little stories (from 'I want an ice-cream' to mother and purse; boy out with Dad; buyer and seller; man with rucksack; young couple looking down from the bridge) they brought the railway to life. 

 

After that, figures took their form from the railway - time of year, type of day, activity, location, job, situation.  It also lead to how people and their activities on the layout may affect activity elsewhere.  So, there was a traffic jam in opposite directions on Camel Quay due to an event outside the hotel.  Vehicles were placed in reducing sizes as you looked at it making the rear vehicles look smaller and the road seem longer.  A trail of compost from the compost bin lead to a gardener.  Lining up figures helped to spot another figure in the background.  

 

And the more I used figures, the more I went for character, size and style to suit, but careful to: put oversized ones at the front and the smaller towards the back to enhance perspective and reality; find a small figure for a Hunslet and tall one for a Castle; and cut off the legs of the bus driver.  I think 3D figures are great for fine detail especially facial features but I simply love the character and magic of those sculpted figures.  I get a mix of excitement and that thumbs up feeling when I see figures that I have used, or have in my box, differently portrayed on someone else's layout.   And the more I see of figures used by others, as on here, the more my knowledge and appreciation grows, and the more adventurous I become, hoping that, maybe, that may inspire someone else in return.

 

Have I use 3D figures?  Yes, the BRM Mag figures on my snow scene cakebox entry!  Duly detailed, painted and weathered!  

 

Polly

 

 

 

Polly,

I think that the figures help make the layout.  In 009 there is a lot of talk, and in fact in 00, that the railway should be part of the landscape and not the other way round, but there is often not the same thought put into the people.  Thinking as I write, there are often station staff but I am not sure that I have seen stations fully staffed or even that there enough staff.  Stations had enormous numbers of staff, and even though some would be sat in the ticket or parcels office, when a train arrived, the Station Master, the porters and whoever inspected the tickets would be on the platform.  Of course this is difficult if you have more than one platform, and it is an exhibition layout as station staff cannot move to meet the trains.  I am of course in a different position as if I am photographing, when I get my layout sceniced, I can move my staff to meet the trains.

 

Of course my particular interest is in the people.  I have lived with Traeth Mawr for 25 years or so.  It started with plans for a narrow gauge railway with a 'feeder' from the Cambrian, to a Cambrian layout so my grandchildren could run Thomas.  During this time, various stories have emerged, a basic town layout has appeared, and a history.  It is a town of around 1500, or so, about the same size as Barmouth, and has 133 named individuals, men, women and children.  Most of these do not have models.  (People may think this sad, but when I was not able to model for various reasons it was a type of planning.)  I would not expect this of most layouts but some thought to be given to it.

 

My eldest son suggested I did a blog with every post an interview with a member of the town.  It will come eventually but not until I get more of the actual layout built.

 

All I have to remember now how is Willian Price the Greengrocer related to Mr Price the Station Master?  (Elder brother, yes.  Where are the parents?  No idea, and no, I do not have the names of the relations of all the 133.)

[corneliuslundie]

I agree though one needs to be careful.

On Sarn two pairs of figures talking was enough, as there would normally have been few people about. But Nantcwdu, a valleys coal mining village, will be different, with opportunities for a lot more people.

But it is essential to my mind that the people are doing likely things, and those things need to be fairly passive, so no running or walking figures, because they simply do not look right. I do not think I am likely to go as far as Chris, but i do like to have at least an identity for each person, so on Sarn one of the two figures talking by the gate of the house obviously lives there (and is relatively prosperous) while the other was passing perhaps on his way to work and stopped to chat.

And I would be nervous about too many railway workers on a station platform because while there might have been quite a few staff at a station most of them would have spent most of their time working, which is more difficult to represent, and some of the staff would be elsewhere on site anyway.

Cameos which work for photos do not necessarily work on layouts which are being operated and therefore being looked at over a length of time.

Jonathan

[Donw]

I am one for rather less people on a layout. As a boy hanging around stations. There used to be very few visible. Often the arrival of a train woud see Guards and Porters suddenly appear from offices. But between trains it would often be quiet. This was especially true of rural stations. You might see someone in a uniform comes out of one door walk along the platform into another and then a few minutes later walk back. Probably consulting the SM about something.  

It seems to me that having two railwaymen in a conversation would look more normal than one hanging around. Although if modelling todays railway you can have them hanging around smoking as they have to go out of the office to do so. 

Mr Price stood outside the office is quite natural as I suspect he was making sure all the staff were busy and if any important passengers needed his attention. I suspect his staff would keep out of the way busy somewhere.  It is a good idea to have people visible through windows. Someone at a desk looks very natural. A person or two in the waiting room looks ok while awaiting a train as are somewhat less obvious at failing to disappear as the train pulls away. A branch line terminus looks odd with people sat on the platform as the train departs. 

There is also the odd case of a Branch terminus either Lyme or Sidmouth I think. My Grandparents travelled there by train and were amused to find the porter who helped with there cases was the booking office clerk wearing a different hat. He later appeared in a Guards hat to wave the train off. This would have been around 1960 so maybe the staff were being run down to the minimum.

 

Don

 

[ChrisN]

12 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

I agree though one needs to be careful.

On Sarn two pairs of figures talking was enough, as there would normally have been few people about. But Nantcwdu, a valleys coal mining village, will be different, with opportunities for a lot more people.

But it is essential to my mind that the people are doing likely things, and those things need to be fairly passive, so no running or walking figures, because they simply do not look right. I do not think I am likely to go as far as Chris, but i do like to have at least an identity for each person, so on Sarn one of the two figures talking by the gate of the house obviously lives there (and is relatively prosperous) while the other was passing perhaps on his way to work and stopped to chat.

And I would be nervous about too many railway workers on a station platform because while there might have been quite a few staff at a station most of them would have spent most of their time working, which is more difficult to represent, and some of the staff would be elsewhere on site anyway.

Cameos which work for photos do not necessarily work on layouts which are being operated and therefore being looked at over a length of time.

Jonathan

 

2 hours ago, Donw said:

I am one for rather less people on a layout. As a boy hanging around stations. There used to be very few visible. Often the arrival of a train woud see Guards and Porters suddenly appear from offices. But between trains it would often be quiet. This was especially true of rural stations. You might see someone in a uniform comes out of one door walk along the platform into another and then a few minutes later walk back. Probably consulting the SM about something.  

It seems to me that having two railwaymen in a conversation would look more normal than one hanging around. Although if modelling todays railway you can have them hanging around smoking as they have to go out of the office to do so. 

Mr Price stood outside the office is quite natural as I suspect he was making sure all the staff were busy and if any important passengers needed his attention. I suspect his staff would keep out of the way busy somewhere.  It is a good idea to have people visible through windows. Someone at a desk looks very natural. A person or two in the waiting room looks ok while awaiting a train as are somewhat less obvious at failing to disappear as the train pulls away. A branch line terminus looks odd with people sat on the platform as the train departs. 

There is also the odd case of a Branch terminus either Lyme or Sidmouth I think. My Grandparents travelled there by train and were amused to find the porter who helped with there cases was the booking office clerk wearing a different hat. He later appeared in a Guards hat to wave the train off. This would have been around 1960 so maybe the staff were being run down to the minimum.

 

Don

 

 

Yes, I think you are right in that between trains, which on the Cambrian in 1895 could be a long time, there were not people hanging around on the platform, but the reverse was true when a train appeared.  There is a snippet of film on You Tube of Margate in 1920 and as the train arrives I think there is a porter for every carriage.  Unless you have moveable figures for photos, which you cannot do with an exhibition layout, either you have people on the platform when there are no trains, or no people when there are.  If you have the latter situation it will look as though the railways are not used and some bright spark will want to close the railways down for not making any money.  

[brumtb]

I really do agree that people with identities bring a layout to life and help to concentrate the mind on what is the reason for the railway and how it operates.  As to numbers, well in pre grouping times there seem to have been far more railway workers than in later years, especially pre WW1 before so many were lost.  I do like the station photos where everybody turns out to be included, including sometimes the stationmaster's dog and passing children!

Personally I'm trawling my family history to incorporate characters and places from the pre grouping era to help me relate to what I'm building.

Tony 

[Mikkel]

A most interesting discussion. 

 

I have been reading this page recently, which traces (in outline) the railway careers of some of the station staff at Box. Lots of inspiration if any were needed: http://www.boxpeopleandplaces.co.uk/railway-staff-in-box.html

[ChrisN]

1 hour ago, Mikkel said:

A most interesting discussion. 

 

I have been reading this page recently, which traces (in outline) the railway careers of some of the station staff at Box. Lots of inspiration if any were needed: http://www.boxpeopleandplaces.co.uk/railway-staff-in-box.html

 

Mikkel,

Thank you for the link, it is extremely interesting.  Tow things I have noted.  The first is that the 'lad' employees were usually 15 or 16, the youngest being about 14 1/2, whereas Mr Price was only 12.  (Education was only compulsory up until the age of 12 and probably he went to a school run by the Methodist Church as they ran most of the free schools before the education act in 1870 that gave the responsibility to the local authorities.)  Also it took one person 18 years to go from Passenger Clerk to Station Master and Mr Price took 19 years.  I am sure I checked what he told me before I wrote it down with other information, but I do not remember where so this is a nice confirmation.

 

I also liked that the GWR were taking care of their employees and giving them pensions.  There was an article in one WRRC publication that seemed to say that they had not always done that.  Board minutes of the Cambrian as quoted in 'A New History' seem to show that despite them making their staff work long hours and then blaming them for when things went wrong, (see the Hood Case), they did pension them off.  The best story I liked was a man who was so frail that he just turned up at work and sat around all day.  His colleagues just looked after him.  When it got to the board they gave him a pension.